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hat2010
 
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Quote hat2010 Replybullet Posted: 29 December 2008 at 11:07am
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-leaders-lie-civilians-die-and-lessons-of-history-are-ignored-1215045.html

Robert Fisk: Leaders lie, civilians die, and lessons of history are ignored

We've got so used to the carnage of the Middle East that we don't care any more – providing we don't offend the Israelis. It's not clear how many of the Gaza dead are civilians, but the response of the Bush administration, not to mention the pusillanimous reaction of Gordon Brown, reaffirm for Arabs what they have known for decades: however they struggle against their antagonists, the West will take Israel's side. As usual, the bloodbath was the fault of the Arabs – who, as we all know, only understand force.

Ever since 1948, we've been hearing this balderdash from the Israelis – just as Arab nationalists and then Arab Islamists have been peddling their own lies: that the Zionist "death wagon" will be overthrown, that all Jerusalem will be "liberated". And always Mr Bush Snr or Mr Clinton or Mr Bush Jnr or Mr Blair or Mr Brown have called upon both sides to exercise "restraint" – as if the Palestinians and the Israelis both have F-18s and Merkava tanks and field artillery. Hamas's home-made rockets have killed just 20 Israelis in eight years, but a day-long blitz by Israeli aircraft that kills almost 300 Palestinians is just par for the course.

The blood-splattering has its own routine. Yes, Hamas provoked Israel's anger, just as Israel provoked Hamas's anger, which was provoked by Israel, which was provoked by Hamas, which ... See what I mean? Hamas fires rockets at Israel, Israel bombs Hamas, Hamas fires more rockets and Israel bombs again and ... Got it? And we demand security for Israel – rightly – but overlook this massive and utterly disproportionate slaughter by Israel. It was Madeleine Albright who once said that Israel was "under siege" – as if Palestinian tanks were in the streets of Tel Aviv.

By last night, the exchange rate stood at 296 Palestinians dead for one dead Israeli. Back in 2006, it was 10 Lebanese dead for one Israeli dead. This weekend was the most inflationary exchange rate in a single day since – the 1973 Middle East War? The 1967 Six Day War? The 1956 Suez War? The 1948 Independence/Nakba War? It's obscene, a gruesome game – which Ehud Barak, the Israeli Defence Minister, unconsciously admitted when he spoke this weekend to Fox TV. "Our intention is to totally change the rules of the game," Barak said.

Exactly. Only the "rules" of the game don't change. This is a further slippage on the Arab-Israeli exchanges, a percentage slide more awesome than Wall Street's crashing shares, though of not much interest in the US which – let us remember – made the F-18s and the Hellfire missiles which the Bush administration pleads with Israel to use sparingly.

Quite a lot of the dead this weekend appear to have been Hamas members, but what is it supposed to solve? Is Hamas going to say: "Wow, this blitz is awesome – we'd better recognise the state of Israel, fall in line with the Palestinian Authority, lay down our weapons and pray we are taken prisoner and locked up indefinitely and support a new American 'peace process' in the Middle East!" Is that what the Israelis and the Americans and Gordon Brown think Hamas is going to do?

Yes, let's remember Hamas's cynicism, the cynicism of all armed Islamist groups. Their need for Muslim martyrs is as crucial to them as Israel's need to create them. The lesson Israel thinks it is teaching – come to heel or we will crush you – is not the lesson Hamas is learning. Hamas needs violence to emphasise the oppression of the Palestinians – and relies on Israel to provide it. A few rockets into Israel and Israel obliges.

Not a whimper from Tony Blair, the peace envoy to the Middle East who's never been to Gaza in his current incarnation. Not a bloody word.

We hear the usual Israeli line. General Yaakov Amidror, the former head of the Israeli army's "research and assessment division" announced that "no country in the world would allow its citizens to be made the target of rocket attacks without taking vigorous steps to defend them". Quite so. But when the IRA were firing mortars over the border into Northern Ireland, when their guerrillas were crossing from the Republic to attack police stations and Protestants, did Britain unleash the RAF on the Irish Republic? Did the RAF bomb churches and tankers and police stations and zap 300 civilians to teach the Irish a lesson? No, it did not. Because the world would have seen it as criminal behaviour. We didn't want to lower ourselves to the IRA's level.

Yes, Israel deserves security. But these bloodbaths will not bring it. Not since 1948 have air raids protected Israel. Israel has bombed Lebanon thousands of times since 1975 and not one has eliminated "terrorism". So what was the reaction last night? The Israelis threaten ground attacks. Hamas waits for another battle. Our Western politicians crouch in their funk holes. And somewhere to the east – in a cave? a basement? on a mountainside? – a well-known man in a turban smiles.
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Saladin
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Quote Saladin Replybullet Posted: 29 December 2008 at 11:29am
Yeah, pit brother against brother, nations against nations, totally screw up the World and get on the highway to Heaven.

And what do their Jewish temporary partners want? To tear down Al Aqsa, build the Third Temple, wipe out the goyims off Eretz Israel and give a Jewish only welcome party for the Messiah.

Get back to reality and live the way Jesus and Moses wanted you all to live. Leave God's work to God. He's well capable of doing His work by Himself.
'Trust everyone but not the devil in them'
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Saladin
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Quote Saladin Replybullet Posted: 29 December 2008 at 11:45am
Salam Alaikum Bro Jamal,

Did you see Aljazeera's 'Inside Story' today. In it Robert Fisk gave a piece of his mind to an arrogant American-Israeli loonie. I couldnt know who the guy was.
'Trust everyone but not the devil in them'
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abuayisha
 
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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 29 December 2008 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by Saladin

Salam Alaikum Bro Jamal,

Did you see Aljazeera's 'Inside Story' today. In it Robert Fisk gave a piece of his mind to an arrogant American-Israeli loonie. I couldnt know who the guy was.
 

Robert Fisk: Leaders lie, civilians die, and lessons of history are ignored

Monday, 29 December 2008

Reuters

A Palestinian woman walks past a destroyed Hamas police compound after an Israeli air strike

 

We've got so used to the carnage of the Middle East that we don't care any more – providing we don't offend the Israelis. It's not clear how many of the Gaza dead are civilians, but the response of the Bush administration, not to mention the pusillanimous reaction of Gordon Brown, reaffirm for Arabs what they have known for decades: however they struggle against their antagonists, the West will take Israel's side. As usual, the bloodbath was the fault of the Arabs – who, as we all know, only understand force.

Ever since 1948, we've been hearing this balderdash from the Israelis – just as Arab nationalists and then Arab Islamists have been peddling their own lies: that the Zionist "death wagon" will be overthrown, that all Jerusalem will be "liberated". And always Mr Bush Snr or Mr Clinton or Mr Bush Jnr or Mr Blair or Mr Brown have called upon both sides to exercise "restraint" – as if the Palestinians and the Israelis both have F-18s and Merkava tanks and field artillery. Hamas's home-made rockets have killed just 20 Israelis in eight years, but a day-long blitz by Israeli aircraft that kills almost 300 Palestinians is just par for the course.

The blood-splattering has its own routine. Yes, Hamas provoked Israel's anger, just as Israel provoked Hamas's anger, which was provoked by Israel, which was provoked by Hamas, which ... See what I mean? Hamas fires rockets at Israel, Israel bombs Hamas, Hamas fires more rockets and Israel bombs again and ... Got it? And we demand security for Israel – rightly – but overlook this massive and utterly disproportionate slaughter by Israel. It was Madeleine Albright who once said that Israel was "under siege" – as if Palestinian tanks were in the streets of Tel Aviv.

By last night, the exchange rate stood at 296 Palestinians dead for one dead Israeli. Back in 2006, it was 10 Lebanese dead for one Israeli dead. This weekend was the most inflationary exchange rate in a single day since – the 1973 Middle East War? The 1967 Six Day War? The 1956 Suez War? The 1948 Independence/Nakba War? It's obscene, a gruesome game – which Ehud Barak, the Israeli Defence Minister, unconsciously admitted when he spoke this weekend to Fox TV. "Our intention is to totally change the rules of the game," Barak said.

Exactly. Only the "rules" of the game don't change. This is a further slippage on the Arab-Israeli exchanges, a percentage slide more awesome than Wall Street's crashing shares, though of not much interest in the US which – let us remember – made the F-18s and the Hellfire missiles which the Bush administration pleads with Israel to use sparingly.

Quite a lot of the dead this weekend appear to have been Hamas members, but what is it supposed to solve? Is Hamas going to say: "Wow, this blitz is awesome – we'd better recognise the state of Israel, fall in line with the Palestinian Authority, lay down our weapons and pray we are taken prisoner and locked up indefinitely and support a new American 'peace process' in the Middle East!" Is that what the Israelis and the Americans and Gordon Brown think Hamas is going to do?

Yes, let's remember Hamas's cynicism, the cynicism of all armed Islamist groups. Their need for Muslim martyrs is as crucial to them as Israel's need to create them. The lesson Israel thinks it is teaching – come to heel or we will crush you – is not the lesson Hamas is learning. Hamas needs violence to emphasise the oppression of the Palestinians – and relies on Israel to provide it. A few rockets into Israel and Israel obliges.

Not a whimper from Tony Blair, the peace envoy to the Middle East who's never been to Gaza in his current incarnation. Not a bloody word.

We hear the usual Israeli line. General Yaakov Amidror, the former head of the Israeli army's "research and assessment division" announced that "no country in the world would allow its citizens to be made the target of rocket attacks without taking vigorous steps to defend them". Quite so. But when the IRA were firing mortars over the border into Northern Ireland, when their guerrillas were crossing from the Republic to attack police stations and Protestants, did Britain unleash the RAF on the Irish Republic? Did the RAF bomb churches and tankers and police stations and zap 300 civilians to teach the Irish a lesson? No, it did not. Because the world would have seen it as criminal behaviour. We didn't want to lower ourselves to the IRA's level.

Yes, Israel deserves security. But these bloodbaths will not bring it. Not since 1948 have air raids protected Israel. Israel has bombed Lebanon thousands of times since 1975 and not one has eliminated "terrorism". So what was the reaction last night? The Israelis threaten ground attacks. Hamas waits for another battle. Our Western politicians crouch in their funk holes. And somewhere to the east – in a cave? a basement? on a mountainside? – a well-known man in a turban smiles.

 

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Saladin
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Quote Saladin Replybullet Posted: 29 December 2008 at 12:36pm
Salam Abuayisha,

I know Robert. It was the other guy (american or israeli) that i dont know.
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hat2010
 
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Quote hat2010 Replybullet Posted: 29 December 2008 at 4:31pm
Originally posted by Saladin

Salam Alaikum Bro Jamal,

Did you see Aljazeera's 'Inside Story' today. In it Robert Fisk gave a piece of his mind to an arrogant American-Israeli loonie. I couldnt know who the guy was.


Yes...that show is what sent me online to find the article. (Fisk is one of my heros.) Pretty much all of his talking points were in the article; in fact, it would be good to see what the responses were to that program in particular.

from Reuters:

"PRACTICAL THINGS"


Speaking to reporters by videolink from Gaza, Karen AbuZayd, head of the U.N. agency for Palestinian refugees (UNRWA), said she did not think Gazans believed a 6-month-old truce was violated first by Hamas, which ended it on Dec. 19.

AbuZayd, an American, said they believed Hamas had observed the truce "quite strictly ... and that they got nothing in return, because there was supposed to be a kind of a deal -- if there were no rockets the crossings would be opened. The crossings weren't opened at all."

Israel had also launched an incursion to kill Palestinian militants, "so then the rockets went out and that was sort of the breakdown of the truce," she said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/featuredCrisis/idUSN29458683
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seekshidayath
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Quote seekshidayath Replybullet Posted: 29 December 2008 at 5:51pm
 
This brutality shall continue, as these jews know very well, that these arab leaders shall not utter a word. Yes, they shall respond when Hammas if replies with fidain attacks - "we condemn every type of terrorism ---". May Allah swt, foil all there plans against us.
 
Israel readying for ground operation as Gaza toll reaches 345

Gaza/Tel Aviv, Dec 29 : After three days of massive airstrikes in the Gaza Strip, Israel was
readying Monday to widen its offensive against Hamas by sending in ground forces.

The toll of Operation "Cast Lead" - launched Saturday to curb rocket and mortar attacks from the
strip - reached at least 345 Palestinian dead and 1,600 injured, Gaza emergency services chief
Mu'awia Hassanein said. Two Israelis have also been killed and dozens injured.

Large columns of tanks, military vehicles and buses with Israeli soldiers on board meanwhile have
moved southwards, deploying near the Israeli border with Gaza in what could indicate a possible
impending ground invasion, witnesses said.

The Israeli army also declared the area around Gaza a "closed military zone", meaning no civilians
will be allowed through roadblocks set up on key entry roads.

The Israeli cabinet Sunday authorized the call up of 6,500 reserve soldiers. A military spokesman,
Captain Benjamin Rutland, however, told DPA the soldiers had not been mobilized yet and this
could take half or up to one day.

Observers said this meant any ground offensive was unlikely to start Monday. They added Israel
was likely to get as much out of the airstrikes as long as the clear wheather, forecast to turn
Tuesday, permitted.

Israeli Defence Minister Ehud Barak reiterated Monday that the offensive in Gaza would be
expanded "as much as necessary" until its goals were achieved.

Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni said Israel would "exhaust" the offensive until it achieved a change in
the balance of power between itself and Hamas, the radical Islamic movement ruling Gaza.

The latest Palestinian deaths included at least seven killed in the northern Gaza Strip refugee camp
of Jabaliya. An Israeli military spokeswoman said the target was a truck transporting "dozens" of
Russian-type Grad rockets, which she said Hamas was apparently trying to relocate to another
hideout as a result of Israel's massive assaults on warehouses and underground bunkers storing
rockets.

Jordan lawmakers want ties with Israel reviewed: MP

Amman, Dec 29 : Jordan's parliament has urged the government to "reconsider" its ties with Israel if
the Jewish state does not halt a massive air blitz of the Gaza Strip, a prominent MP said today.

"The lower house took a decision on Sunday night to ask the government to reconsider its relations
with the Israeli if it continues its aggression on Gaza," Khalil Atiyeh, an independent, told.

"Eighty-eight deputies have signed a memorandum on the issue and the government is currently
studying it," he said.

The UN agency for Palestinian refugees said today that at least 51 civilians are among the victims of
Israel's airstrikes on the Hamas-run Gaza that have so far killed more than 310 people.

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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Quote semar Replybullet Posted: 29 December 2008 at 6:33pm
Originally posted by Saladin

Salam Alaikum Bro Jamal,

Did you see Aljazeera's 'Inside Story' today. In it Robert Fisk gave a piece of his mind to an arrogant American-Israeli loonie. I couldnt know who the guy was.
 
Here the aljazeera program:
 
Salam/Peace,
Semar
The Prophet said: "Do not eat before you are hungry, and stop eating before you are full"
"1/3 of your stomach for food 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air"
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