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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
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Angela
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 21 December 2008 at 4:12pm
Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi


Perhaps I am not studious enough, but I have not come across any exact calculation from our Muslim scholars - that Allah began the Creation of organic matter  - 8 billion years ago.





 


Nur, perhaps you should study a little science with your Muslim scholars. Its not all calculations by men who have a degree in Quran and Quran only.

Allah's creations are fast, wonderful and complicated and one of those is our brains which give us the ability to think on our own.

Arabs were the forefathers of so much of todays modern science. It really bothers me when Muslims around the world stop thinking scientifically. Islam is a religion that encourages education.

The Quran says we are created from a blood clot? That's extremely close to the reality of sperm and eggs but its incorrect from a scientific standpoint. God has always revealed to man things in a manner in which he can understand at the time. Therefore, I highly doubt Moses, Abraham or even Muhammed would have been given a lecture on Carbon-14, nuclear decay and amino acids. It would have been far beyond their understanding and the understanding of their people.

God created our planets, stars and nebulae billions of years ago. How do you describe billions to peoples who barely have a concept of 0? The Babylonian, Greeks and others debated it 0 even existed. So, if they didn't have a concept of nothing...they couldn't really understand the vastness of space or the basics of its creation.

Studying theology is wonderful, Nur...but relying on it for all your information is why there are women in the Middle East who think that the clitoris will cause infertility or why there are those in the Congo who still believe in Witches. They leave their rationality and check their brains at the door.
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Nur_Ilahi
 
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Quote Nur_Ilahi Replybullet Posted: 21 December 2008 at 6:11pm

Response: My post was not directed to you but to Angela who understood what was revealed to Muhammad Rasulullah as explained in the Bible. I am trying to explain to her how Bible was assimilated and explained by Muhammad Rasulullah. You should try to know and understand what bothers you. I am explaining Iman to her and not the Sunna of Muhammad Rasulullah.
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Ok, I see your point, however, you must based your explanation according to our Quran and Hadiths not thru the Bible. Like one of our Muslim posters here who I had refuted and who believed that Jesus was dead because of the so called facts in the Bible. We are Muslims and therefore we have to adhere to our Quran and Hadiths. Whatever that are in the Bible that do not contradict the Quran and Hadiths, can be accepted, after all some of the teachings were original and were from Isa Alaihissalam.

I know your post was directed at Angela, but you must remember, there are many others who are reading your posts. And there are ignorant Muslims as well as New Muslims whose Aqidah or Iman are not strong. We have the responsibility to give them concrete facts that are based on AlQuran and AsSunnah so that their Iman could become stronger. That is part of AMAL MAKRUF NAHI MUNKAR. And you should also make sure that your points or facts are according to AhlusSunnah WalJamaah, not something that is just made up.

Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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Nur_Ilahi
 
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Quote Nur_Ilahi Replybullet Posted: 21 December 2008 at 6:17pm

Nur, perhaps you should study a little science with your Muslim scholars. Its not all calculations by men who have a degree in Quran and Quran only.

Then he should quote where his sources are from.

Allah's creations are fast, wonderful and complicated and one of those is our brains which give us the ability to think on our own.

Subhanallah! MashaAllah! Correct indeed. That I agree wholeheartedly. The insane or retarded person is exempted and not obligated to solat/prayers, fasting, zakah and hajj because he is deprived of sanity, a key component on which religious duties depend. In a hadith related by Ali Bin Abi Talib (raa), the Messenger of Allah (saas) said: "The Pen that records the deeds has been lifted from three people; the insane person, until he recovers; the sleeping person, until he wakes up; and the minor, until he dreams (i.e., has wet dreams.)" (Ahmed)

There is a saying in Islam that says Adeenul Aql - Religion is Intellect. A religion that is compatible with the Aqal is Islam. Adeenul Fitrah - The Natural Religion.

Arabs were the forefathers of so much of todays modern science. It really bothers me when Muslims around the world stop thinking scientifically. Islam is a religion that encourages education.

Yes there is no doubt of that. The importance of education is reflected in the first word of the AlQuran that came to Rasulullulah that was - ‘IQRA!” Read!.

The reason why the early Muslims were very good in Mathematics and Sciences, because they were not only good in worldy knowledge, but they were also the best of Allah's servants in terms of piety or Spiritual knowledge.

The Quran says we are created from a blood clot? That's extremely close to the reality of sperm and eggs but its incorrect from a scientific standpoint.

The Quran is a guide to all kinds of knowledge, not an encyclopeadia of sciences only. And the wonderful thing is, it never contradicts science, in fact science confirms it

Studying theology is wonderful, Nur...but relying on it for all your information is why there are women in the Middle East who think that the clitoris will cause infertility

Please give facts and figures so that your statement is not just an empty statement or a false accusation.

or why there are those in the Congo who still believe in Witches. They leave their rationality and check their brains at the door.

And there are also some whose brains are okay, yet still refuse to acknowledge that Muhammad is the best example of a human being ever lived.

Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 21 December 2008 at 10:28pm
Assalamu alaikum.

Nur Ilahi posted.
We have the responsibility to give them concrete facts that are based on AlQuran and AsSunnah so that their Iman could become stronger.
Response: That is true. But you should understand that the Qur'an is called Glorious because of its comprehensive composition-every skill or knowledge is mentioned in it briefly. It is left for the experts on that knowledge to elaborate on it. It was not the responsibility of the holy Prophet to explain such concepts nor was he commissioned by Allah to do so. It is left to one of us (mankind and not only his followers) to explain such concepts. No one is supposed to understand very concept of Faith (word or letter) in the Qur'an. Just understand one letter or word and then follow Muhammad. You cannot learn Islam without reading, and it seems you do not read books, or you do not know the right books to read. You must read the Bible especially the Book of Genesis and Deuterenomy and their available commentary. Islam since from the time of Prophet Yusuf (Joseph) taught that we should always listen to the understanding of one and then make better of it. When his brothers accused Benjamin of stealing he said, 'rather from the one on whom you found your goods'. The Sunna of the holy Prophet means Ibadat. No one has a say in it. Instead of the Muslims to concentrate on the sciences of the holy Qur'an for research they concentrated all their efforts on the unquestionable Sunna creating distortion, division and confusion among the Muslim Umma.

(11) And you should also make sure that your points or facts are according to AhlusSunnah WalJamaah, not something that is just made up.
Response: Please do not allow yourself to be deceived by people who believed they know better than Muhammad. Now tell me where Muhammad Rasulullah described Ahlal Sunna and Jama'a fittting the attitude of the present Muslim Umma. Ahlal Sunna and Jama'a are those group of Muslims with a Khalifa reflecting the period of the rightly guided Sahabas. They respect Muhammad and do exactly what he did when doing their Ibadat.
Friendship.



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Angela
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 22 December 2008 at 10:29am
Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi


Please give facts and figures so that your statement is not just an empty statement or a false accusation.

</SPAN>


Nur, research FGM and tribal beliefs regarding clitorectomies. Or read Infidel and get a first hand account of a woman who as a child was held down and had her private parts sheared off with scissors. I'm not going to get into another debate with you over that barbaric practic.

The point is that not all knowledge comes from the Quran. And there are many places that give you information on the timeline of this great creation of our Planet. The scriptures say 6 days, but what are 6 days to God? Allah has no time, therefore it is mankind that ascribes a time to an event.

When giving a "timeline" to the world, we must use our brains and what we have learned. The Universe that we understand was created 15 billion years ago. Our planet is 4.5 billion years old and their are planets and stars that have existed and died before our planet was woven into what it is today. This may be a timeline we cannot fathom, but to God, its been a blink of the eye.
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Quote Nur_Ilahi Replybullet Posted: 25 December 2008 at 5:50am

Waalaikum salam.

Friendship, in view of the many fake Muslims in this kind of forum, I took extra care towards one's posts.
 
 


Edited by Nur_Ilahi - 25 December 2008 at 5:53am
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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Quote Nur_Ilahi Replybullet Posted: 25 December 2008 at 5:52am

Hi Angela,

I totally agree that FGM is barbaric. However the one that I had brought up in the other forum, was totally different. You will never know because you never experienced it.
 
There were never a definite time given as to the formation of this universe. Only conjecture. Only Allah Al-Aleem (Most Knowing) knows the answer.
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 27 December 2008 at 6:22pm
Originally posted by robin

Originally posted by honeto

Hi ,
as a Muslim, I don't see any reason to call God, father. As the term father is a wordly term, has its weaknesses. To a child abused by his/her father this word "father" may bring bad memories and may stand for bad, something of an abuser and so on, not of devine characteristics.
In Quran, God is not mentioned as father of anyone. A muslim is very carefull not to add or substract to what is revealed by God. Thus God is our God, not father in Islam.
Hasan
 
 
Then you deny the teaching of you own prophet Jesus who said:-
 

Matthew 6:9

"‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.
 
 
 
Robin,
I do not deny that Jesus glorified God, all of God's prophets and those of us who believe in God do glorify Him in our own ways. What I am saying is that God created us, the animals, the universe and all, God did not fathered these things. And all I am doing is to apply right terminology because I believe God will hold us resposible for our lose tongue, intentions and actions.
Quran 21:26 And they say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten offspring." Glory to Him! they are (but) servants raised to honour."
For those who mend their actions and words after realizing their mistakes, God will bestow His Mercy and forgiveness.
 
Quran 7:35 "O ye Children of Adam! whenever there come to you messengers from amongst you, rehearsing My signs unto you,- those who are righteous and mend (their lives),- on them shall be no fear nor shall they grieve."
 
Hasan
 
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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