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Interfaith Dialogue
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Friendship
 
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Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 28 December 2008 at 2:02am
Assalamu alaikum.

Honeto posted:
Robin, I do not deny that Jesus glorified God, all of God's prophets and those of us who believe in God do glorify Him in our own ways. What I am saying is that God created us, the animals, the universe and all, God did not fathered these things. And all I am doing is to apply right terminology because I believe God will hold us responsible for our lose tongue, intentions and actions.
Response: You have hit the nail by the head in your statement:
What I am saying is that God created us, the animals, the universe and all, God did not fathered these things. Allah cannot father human beings and not father lower primates! Logically, He told us that He created Adam from clay and the scientists who analysed the various verses came up with a beautiful explanation. Clay could not be the wife of Allah! Secondly, the use of terminology is very important. If we begin from the Canaanite language probably the language spoken by Adam up to Abraham, we need explanation from them. If we use the Syriac/Aramic language etc we need explanation from them. Likewise from the Hebrew, Greek and Latin languages. Our own is the Pure Arabic language free from any crookedness. So it is just a matter of tolerance and giving each one to express in his language. For example Prophet Yusuf (AS) [Joseph] said to his inmates, "mention me to your lord (rabbika). That was the canaanite expression. But definitely he did not mean Allah the creator. In my language we use the world loosely to mean your master or somone taking care of you. But it does not mean Allah! I studied usage of the word Father in the bible and it was never used biologically.
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Quote robin Replybullet Posted: 09 January 2009 at 1:14am
Originally posted by Friendship

Assalamu alaikum.

If Allah is the Father of Jesus and also Allah is the Father lights and mercy. In Israelite  religion and Judaism, Yahweh is called Father because of he is the creator, lawgiver and protector. Is Allah then not my Father? Why is only only the father of some one who walked on the earth, mothered, drink, eat, sleep and had friends and enemies? What is the gene pattern of Allah in light and mercy?
Friendship.
 

Can It Possibly Be Said That Christ Is the Son of God?

IT IS unthinkable that God should have a son resulting from relations with a woman or that he would marry and beget children. God is unique. What humans do to reproduce should never be applied to him. This is precisely what the Holy Scriptures teach and emphasize.

Why, then, do the Holy Scriptures use the expression "son of God" in many instances? For example, it is said that Adam was a "son of God." (Luke 3:38) But how could that be? The Torah explains: "And Jehovah God proceeded to form the man [Adam] out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul." (Genesis 2:7) Therefore, Adam was called a son of God because his life came from God without human parents. Similarly, Jesus Christ is called the son of God, for his life came directly from God. We read in the Qur’ān: "The similitude of Jesus before God is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: ‘Be’: And he was."—Āl ‘Imrān [3]:59.

Language also permits a figurative use of the word "son." In Arabic, for example, the expression "son of the village" is used to refer to a native villager, and the expression "the son of the language" is used to indicate the speaker of a tongue. Of course, such expressions do not mean that either the village or the language has literally begotten children through marriage! Similarly, in Al-Baqarah [2]:177 the rendering "wayfarer" is a translation of the Arabic expression "son of the road." Here again no one can say that the road has actually married and thereby produced a son. Likewise, when the Qur’ān employs such expressions as "the face of God," "the Hand of God," and "mounted He the Throne," these are not understood literally. (Al-Baqarah [2]:109, Rodwell; Al-Fath [48]:10; Al-A‘rāf [7]:54, MMP) Finally, not all Muslim scholars object to the use of the expression "son of God" in the Injīl. Both Imām Abū Hāmid Al-Ghazālī and Ibn Qutaybah accept it as a figure of speech.

 

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Quote Honzo Replybullet Posted: 09 January 2009 at 5:01am
Originally posted by Robin

Why, then, do the Holy Scriptures use the expression "son of God" in many instances? For example, it is said that Adam was a "son of God." (Luke 3:38) But how could that be? The Torah explains: "And Jehovah God proceeded to form the man [Adam] out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul." (Genesis 2:7) Therefore, Adam was called a son of God because his life came from God without human parents. Similarly, Jesus Christ is called the son of God, for his life came directly from God. We read in the Qur’ān: "The similitude of Jesus before God is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: ‘Be’: And he was."—Āl ‘Imrān [3]:59.


Yes brother Robin is right son of god is an expression used in Bible to denote Servant of God as we can see in the following verses of Bible


Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the SON OF GOD." LUKE 3:38

 "That the SONS OF GOD saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took wives of all which they chose. ". . when the SONS OF GOD came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." GENESIS 6:2

 " . . Thus- saith the Lord, Israel is MY SON even my FIRSTBORN." EXODUS 4:22


 " . . and Ephraim is my FIRSTBORN," JEREMIAH 31:9


" . . Thou (o David) ART MY SON; this day have I (God) BEGOTTEN thee. " 
PSALMS 2:7


 
 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the SONS OF GOD. ' ROMANS 8:14






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Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 09 January 2009 at 10:30am
Assalamu alaikum.

Robin posted: The similitude of Jesus before God is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: ‘Be’: And he was."—Āl ‘Imrān [3]:59.
Response: I think in the matter of Jesus the son of Maryam the People of the Book who are today the leaders of scientific investigations should hav
e focused their minds on what Allah said above, on the similitude and confirm what Allah said about the impossibility. On the hand the majority of the followers of Muhammad have little or no interest in exploring the mysteries of the holy Qur'an on what is not the responsibility of the holy Apostle and his sahabas to explain to mankind. If the one with keen interest in exploring a scientific verse of the holy Qur'an gives his Ta'wil, others will just jump to the conclusion that the Sahabas did not say so! This is ridiculous! We are talking of Ta'wil today and not during their time!
The choice of clay soil by Allah of all the type of soil was because it can be moulded, emits  sound and dries easily. Water is an
oxidant. Today we know of gene transfer, cloning artifical insemination etc. So why do we going on wrangling on something we are not supposed to know with certainty?  Why only one man out of all those created by Allah? Why not we be patient till the Day of Haqqul Yaqeen?
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Quote robin Replybullet Posted: 31 January 2009 at 9:11am
Originally posted by Friendship

Assalamu alaikum.

Honeto posted:
Robin, I do not deny that Jesus glorified God, all of God's prophets and those of us who believe in God do glorify Him in our own ways. What I am saying is that God created us, the animals, the universe and all, God did not fathered these things. And all I am doing is to apply right terminology because I believe God will hold us responsible for our lose tongue, intentions and actions.
Response: You have hit the nail by the head in your statement:
What I am saying is that God created us, the animals, the universe and all, God did not fathered these things. Allah cannot father human beings and not father lower primates! Logically, He told us that He created Adam from clay and the scientists who analysed the various verses came up with a beautiful explanation. Clay could not be the wife of Allah! Secondly, the use of terminology is very important. If we begin from the Canaanite language probably the language spoken by Adam up to Abraham, we need explanation from them. If we use the Syriac/Aramic language etc we need explanation from them. Likewise from the Hebrew, Greek and Latin languages. Our own is the Pure Arabic language free from any crookedness. So it is just a matter of tolerance and giving each one to express in his language. For example Prophet Yusuf (AS) [Joseph] said to his inmates, "mention me to your lord (rabbika). That was the canaanite expression. But definitely he did not mean Allah the creator. In my language we use the world loosely to mean your master or somone taking care of you. But it does not mean Allah! I studied usage of the word Father in the bible and it was never used biologically.
Friendship. 
 
 
When God is called "Father" in The Bible as with Jesus it means that God was his creator as he was of Adam, so the word creator and father are interchangable in this instance; e.g. in can be said 'that God was the creator of Jesus' or is can be said 'that God was the father of Jesus', both these phrases mean the same thing, God is the cause of Jesus' existance.


Edited by robin - 01 February 2009 at 6:25am
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Quote robin Replybullet Posted: 08 February 2009 at 9:12am
Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi

Originally posted by honeto

Hi ,
as a Muslim, I don't see any reason to call God, father. As the term father is a wordly term, has its weaknesses. To a child abused by his/her father this word "father" may bring bad memories and may stand for bad, something of an abuser and so on, not of devine characteristics.
In Quran, God is not mentioned as father of anyone. A muslim is very carefull not to add or substract to what is revealed by God. Thus God is our God, not father in Islam.
Hasan
 
Salamalaikum Hasan,
 
I agree wholeheartedly what you said. Muslims should refrain from saying that Allah is our father, because Allah is Al-Ahad The Only One. For Muslim, it is very important to understand thoroughly Surah Al-Ikhlas -

Say: He is Allah, Absolute Oneness,

Allah, the Everlasting Sustainer of all.

He has not given birth and was not born.

And no one is comparable to Him.

We are not suppose to compare Him - The Creator - with any of His Creations.
 
Let's recite Astaghfirullah - I seek forgiveness from Allah.
 
The Prophet Jesus calls Allah "father":-
 
Matthew 6:9
"‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.. . 
 
John 17:1
Jesus spoke these things, and, raising his eyes to heaven, he said: "Father, the hour has come; glorify your son, that your son may glorify you,
 
John 20:17
Jesus said to her: "Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father. But be on your way to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and YOUR Father and to my God and YOUR God.’". . 
 
John 14:28
YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am.
 
John 16:28
I came out from the Father and have come into the world. Further, I am leaving the world and am going my way to the Father."
 
So The Prophet shows that it is right to call God "Father"!
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Quote Nur_Ilahi Replybullet Posted: 09 February 2009 at 5:36am
Originally posted by robin

 
The Prophet Jesus calls Allah "father":-
 
Matthew 6:9
"‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.. . 
 
So The Prophet shows that it is right to call God "Father"!
 
Robin, you are quoting the Bible which in your opinion is unadultered. Yet, in this modern times, if you bring the Bible to court to insist that it is an authentic book, you will fail!
 
If the Bible were to be a witness, it will be shredded to peices (metaphorically) by the Prosecutor.
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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Quote Katydid Replybullet Posted: 09 February 2009 at 10:23am
Nur Ilahi,
 

or why there are those in the Congo who still believe in Witches. They leave their rationality and check their brains at the door.

And there are also some whose brains are okay, yet still refuse to acknowledge that Muhammad is the best example of a human being ever lived.

Just so there is no misunderstanding, are you saying that there is  something deficient about those who do not accept Muhammad as the best example of a human being?  Please explain.

Katydid
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