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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Fathering of Jesus. Post Reply Post New Topic
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BMZ
 
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Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 19 December 2008 at 6:13pm
Hello, Friendship

Originally posted by Friendship

Who is more worthy of worship? God the creation or God the Creator?


Bold emphasis within your quote is mine.

Could you please clarify God the creation in above? Haven't heard of that before. What are you trying to say?

Salaams

BMZ





Edited by BMZ - 19 December 2008 at 6:14pm
Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."
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Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 20 December 2008 at 12:26am
Assalamu alaikum.

BMZ.
Originally posted by Friendship

Assalamu alaikum.

Nur Ilahi Posted:
(1) You want to make them (non-Muslims) understand Islam,. Their understanding of Islam that a righteous man is the son of God was what they understood in the Book of Genesis. If they call me the son of God, I will accept it because I believe I am righteous. If I do not accept I am unrighteous.
(11)  yet your version or explanation of Islam, even I a Muslim, cannot understand.
Response: You demonstrated your misunderstanding in your saying
: To others who want to believe Friendship. Where in the OT and NT Allah said that one should believe in what Friendship says? It is not Friendship who will make you understand Islam, but rather Allah. Thus why on the Day of Judgment Satan will say to those who failed to understand Islam, "Do not blame me, blame yourselves. I have no power over you and you have no power over me. I totally reject what you associate with me".
Friendship.
 
peace and eddless love my brother my friend.
leland
Who is more worthy of worship? God the creation or God the Creator?
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love for all conquers all
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That was the posting of Nazerene. But I think he meant who is worthy of worship to Allah the Creator or the being (or object) created by Allah?
Friendship.
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Quote robin Replybullet Posted: 20 December 2008 at 5:07am
Originally posted by honeto

Hi ,
as a Muslim, I don't see any reason to call God, father. As the term father is a wordly term, has its weaknesses. To a child abused by his/her father this word "father" may bring bad memories and may stand for bad, something of an abuser and so on, not of devine characteristics.
In Quran, God is not mentioned as father of anyone. A muslim is very carefull not to add or substract to what is revealed by God. Thus God is our God, not father in Islam.
Hasan
 
 
Then you deny the teaching of you own prophet Jesus who said:-
 

Matthew 6:9

"Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.
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Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 20 December 2008 at 8:29am
Wa alaikum assalaam, Friendship

Thanks for the clarification. My apologies.

BMZ

Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 20 December 2008 at 9:02am
You know, I have been thinking about the idea that the word Father has a weakness.

It does not.

There are men who disgrace the calling of Father. But there are men who disgrace the calling of Human and disgrace the fact they are a creation of God.

There are men who malign the world God by ascribing it to things and to myths.

Father is the highest calling. You are responsible for the creation and care of the next generation. (As a human) You are protector, teacher, caregiver, discipliner, provider, and role-model.

There is no weakness to the calling of Father. But there are men, humans, who are unfit to carry this name. Calling God "Father" is acknowledging all that he is in one word. Most of the 99 names of God can be ascribed to a Father.

I mean, obviously ones like al-Hayy and al-Qayyum can only be given to God... this is what makes him more than "just" a Father.

My father had his human failings, but there is no other man on this planet who has shaped who I am more than he has. With that in mind, you men should keep that thought in your head when dealing with your children. You will shape what kind of men and women they become.
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Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 20 December 2008 at 12:53pm
Assalamu alaikum.

Angela posted: Father is the highest calling. You are responsible for the creation and care of the next generation. (As a human) You are protector, teacher, caregiver, discipliner, provider, and role-model.
Response: What you said corresponds to what was written in Wikipedia encyclopaedia. However in  Israelite religion and modern Judaism, Yahweh is called Father because He is the creator, lawgiver and protector. However God in the NT was not found as author and beginner.
Philosophy can be applied to the Scriptures in explaining some concepts or matter that cannot be understood without using the freedom of expression given to us by our Creator. Islam i.e. the teaching of Muhammad accepts also philosophical interpretations as an auxiliary or a booster provided one remains within the intended meaning of that concept. Father as the highest calling is Allah which in Arabic means the Lawgiver. If we philosophically say Allah is our Father in a reflection of His Attributes which He breathed into us, then that philosophical concept lands us in the position of His vicegerents- His deputies. This position and responsibility given to us (human beings) by Allah was explained probably before He began the Creation of organic matter - 8 billion years ago. We are the deputies of Allah but without the power to enact any law but only to comply with His completed, perfected and chosen way of life. This was what indeed Jesus the son of Maryam said in Matthew 5:`8-21. Jesus the son of Maryam proVed that he was Allah's vicegerent in many places in the NT.  For example the people told Jesus: Don't accuse us for having someone else as our father (not Father). We just have one father and he is God" Jesus answered: If God were your Father (not father) you wold love me (This version where Muhammad spoke is also in the Qur'an), because I came from God and only from Him. He sent me. I did not come on my own.
Let me ask you Angela: Who was the wife of Allah then?
Friendship

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Quote Nur_Ilahi Replybullet Posted: 21 December 2008 at 5:27am
Father as the highest calling is Allah which in Arabic means the Lawgiver.
 
Please quote any sunnah or verses from the AlQuran that states Allah means the Lawgiver.
 
If we philosophically say Allah is our Father in a reflection of His Attributes,
 
It is you who said philosophically that Allah is your father, but never have I come across any Muslim scholars who dared to say that Allah is our Father (Astaghfiruallah!)
 
This position and responsibility given to us (human beings) by Allah was explained probably before He began the Creation of organic matter - 8 billion years ago -
 
Perhaps I am not studious enough, but I have not come across any exact calculation from our Muslim scholars - that Allah began the Creation of organic matter  - 8 billion years ago.
 
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 21 December 2008 at 11:16am
Assalamu alaikum.

Nur Ilahi posted.
Topic: Fathering of Jesus.
Posted: Today at 5:27am By Nur_Ilahi
Father as the highest calling is Allah which in Arabic means the Lawgiver.
 
Please quote any sunnah or verses from the AlQuran that states Allah means the Lawgiver.
 
If we philosophically say Allah is our Father in a reflection of His Attributes,
 
It is you who said philosophically that Allah is your father, but never have I come across any Muslim scholars who dared to say that Allah is our Father (Astaghfiruallah!)
 
This position and responsibility given to us (human beings) by Allah was explained probably before He began the Creation of organic matter - 8 billion years ago -
 
Perhaps I am not studious enough, but I have not come across any exact calculation from our Muslim scholars - that Allah began the Creation of organic matter  - 8 billion years ago.

Response: My post was not directed to you but to Angela who understood what was revealed to Muhammad Rasulullah as explained in the Bible. I am trying to explain to her how Bible was assimilated and explained by Muhammad Rasulullah. You should try to know and understand what bothers you. I am explaining Iman to her and not the Sunna of Muhammad Rasulullah.
Friendship.
 
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