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Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
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myahya
 
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bullet Posted: 30 May 2009 at 12:21am
BMZ: It allows marriage!

Shia also says that it allows marriage but Mut'a marriage. Permanent marriage was already and completely allowed in previous verses from 1 to 23. It seems meaningless to be re-allowed here! And the history says that Mut'a marriage used to be performed in the time of the prophet so that we can not say there is no such a thing at all. The question is whether it is generally banned by the prophet or not.  

Furthermore, the root of the word Fa-mas-tam-ta'atum is the same as Mut'a and literally means benefiting from and enjoying. You said that Nikah should be used for marriage. if yes, why this sentence uses the root of Mut'ah instead of Nikah. If I am right, you mean that this sentence is talking about "benefiting from" and "enjoying" in permanent marriage. Ok, if it is so, the sentence says that "give your permanent wives their dowries if you benefit from your permanent wives and enjoy them". What does it mean? Every Muslim man should give their permanent wives dowries per each enjoyment? Which kind of them? all of them? And which occasion of each kind of enjoyment in a permanent mutual life? Can you clarify these issues?

Regarding the translations, we do not support any translation which adds a word or a sentence to Quran.

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myahya
 
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bullet Posted: 30 May 2009 at 12:22am
Hasan: we know that from the topic of divorce and how it is addressed in the Quran, it cannot be possible that a book that shows that how unfavorable it is in the sight of Allah that a divorce take place, how it can be that a temporary marriage which will involve a divorce can be permitted?

It seems that Shia ulamaa in history could not conclude that "divorce" can be defined in Mut'a marriage. May be because in a divorce the two people or one of them want to give up and get rid off their permanent partner for any reason. This is meaningless in a Mut'a marriage.
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BMZ
 
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bullet Posted: 30 May 2009 at 7:52am
Originally posted by myahya

BMZ: It allows marriage!

Shia also says that it allows marriage but Mut'a marriage. Permanent marriage was already and completely allowed in previous verses from 1 to 23. It seems meaningless to be re-allowed here! And the history says that Mut'a marriage used to be performed in the time of the prophet so that we can not say there is no such a thing at all. The question is whether it is generally banned by the prophet or not.  

Furthermore, the root of the word Fa-mas-tam-ta'atum is the same as Mut'a and literally means benefiting from and enjoying. You said that Nikah should be used for marriage. if yes, why this sentence uses the root of Mut'ah instead of Nikah. If I am right, you mean that this sentence is talking about "benefiting from" and "enjoying" in permanent marriage. Ok, if it is so, the sentence says that "give your permanent wives their dowries if you benefit from your permanent wives and enjoy them". What does it mean? Every Muslim man should give their permanent wives dowries per each enjoyment? Which kind of them? all of them? And which occasion of each kind of enjoyment in a permanent mutual life? Can you clarify these issues?

Regarding the translations, we do not support any translation which adds a word or a sentence to Quran.



Shias can say whatever they like. I am just saying that Muta'a is wrong and Haram. They can call it temporary marriage or a marriage for fun or marriage for a certain period, etc. It is still not a proper marriage.

Muta'a is totally against the commands in Qur'aan.

If one marries four women, then the dowry or Mehr (Ujur) for each will be due for one time anyway and the four will be one's  wives forever, unless and until one wishes to divorce them or they wish to leave one under Khulaa, if they are not happy and want to go their own way.


BMZ
Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."
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myahya
 
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bullet Posted: 31 May 2009 at 9:23pm
BMZ: If one marries four women, then the dowry or Mehr (Ujur) for each will be due for one time anyway and the four will be one's  wives forever, unless and until one wishes to divorce them or they wish to leave one under Khulaa, if they are not happy and want to go their own way.

What I can understand from what you said is that if the verse "Fa-mas-tam-ta'atum " in 4:24 comes back to the permanent marriage, then the dowry (Mehr or Ujur) must be completely given due to the very first enjoyment. Because the sentence orders to give the dowry when you enjoy or benefit from them, a must
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BMZ
 
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bullet Posted: 31 May 2009 at 10:58pm
Originally posted by myahya

BMZ: If one marries four women, then the dowry or Mehr (Ujur) for each will be due for one time anyway and the four will be one's  wives forever, unless and until one wishes to divorce them or they wish to leave one under Khulaa, if they are not happy and want to go their own way.

What I can understand from what you said is that if the verse "Fa-mas-tam-ta'atum " in 4:24 comes back to the permanent marriage, then the dowry (Mehr or Ujur) must be completely given due to the very first enjoyment. Because the sentence orders to give the dowry when you enjoy or benefit from them, a must


myahya,

I wish to clarify why I brought up and wrote part of the verse
"Fa-mas-tam-ta'atum" in my post. The verse is about permanent marriage, not Muta'a.

Our Shia brothers take that to mean, "So, you can do Muta'a" and if you read Farsi and Urdu translations by Shia translators, you will know that they use it to justify Muta'a.

If you can read Urdu, please read the translation by Maulana Firman Ali.

I should have made this clearer in my OP about this matter.

Salaams
BMZ



Edited by BMZ - 31 May 2009 at 11:00pm
Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."
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Fatah-Momin
 
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bullet Posted: 02 June 2009 at 8:50am


myahya

Any time you want evidence from Shia books and source of highest eminence[among shia faith] Inshallah I can post hundreds and hundreds of images to establish beyond doubt that Shia do not believe in Muslim Quran as uncorrupted last testament of Allah[swt].  

Edited by Fatah-Momin - 02 June 2009 at 8:51am
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Mansoor_ali
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bullet Posted: 02 June 2009 at 3:35pm
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