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PattyaMainer
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Quote PattyaMainer Replybullet Posted: 22 November 2008 at 8:25pm
Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by PattyaMainer

Originally posted by honeto

Hi,
as the talk shifts from woman's head covering to promotion of peace, I must say that from what we know of the world so far, peace as what it means does not seem to be visible in sight. It may not be meant in the sense we all have been thinking.  And thus we are setting on wrong expectations.
Injustices, aggressions, killings and misery continues on for whatever reasons and motives, God knows best and has the account of All.
 
I believe that peace has to do with the self and achieving peace is a personal goal because at the end it is the individual who will be held accountable for his/her intentions and actions. So, if a person has figured that way out he/she feels at peace within him/herself. Because the whole world in that person's life span is between the day he/she took the first breath and the day he/she took the last one.
I believe in peacefully sharing this planet, but I must say that I don't believe that an athiest, a fire worshipper, a pagan, or one who believe in more than one God, and the one who believes in One God is going to all achieve the same, niether they are same. By saying we all are right none of them will either achieve peace for themselves nor for others, niether in this life nor after this.
And to me it seems the purpose of life to find or correct my course and direction and help others to see it too as a duty before I take my last breath.
 
Now as far staying with the topic, Patty what about that quote where men are not to cover, yet I see many Catholic men with the Church do cover??
Hasan
 
Hi Hasan,
 
As far as obtaining peace in this life goes, I leave it to God....not many gods, but the God of Abraham who created all people and all on earth, and all in the universe.  It is far beyond me to say more.
 
Regarding your concern about Catholic men who do cover, I can explain this:  Catholic men who are not priests, bishops, deacons, cardinals, or the pope are called laity.  They do not cover at all in church....no more than they would wear a hat inside a home (which in our culture is considered rude for men to do.)  If you re-read my former post carefully, you will see the "religious", bishops, cardinals, etc., do NOT wear head covering while saying the prayers or during some of the more sacred times during the mass, and THAT is what St. Paul speaks of in I Corinthians if you read it closely.
 
Hasan, I just want you to know that I respect you for taking a stand for what you believe, even though we may differ in what we believe somewhat.  That takes great courage.  In your heart I know that you are doing what God has told you to do, and I am sure you are very favored and loved by Him.
 
Patty
 
Hi Patty,
thanks for your reply, I was mainly refering to higher priests or even Pope who do cover their heads in some form while leading a mass/prayer service.
It seems we both live for one purpose like many others, to serve our maker and to seek his Forgiveness and Mercy not just for ourselves but for others as well. If we differ is only to our method. I do not believe or think that if we really care for each other and have humanly love for each other to not to show that in our words. Those words are not meant to increase the distance between rather to bring you close to the truth, which there is only one without a substitute.
 
Can you explain how do you believe Mary to be Mother of God? in other words God has a Mother? or a none God mother gives birth to a God? How come Mother of God is not a God hereself? How that can be, or all these are just words that are not to be taken as they sound.
I want to know your personal belief about it, as well as if you can explain the church teachings about it too.
 
Hasan
 
 
Hello Hasan,
 
I believe that Mary is the Mother of God because Jesus and God are the same to me (Holy Trinity).  As you know I believe God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are three separate entities which form the Triune Godhead.  It takes a LOT of faith to understand the Trinity.  No, Mary is not a God herself, but she is indeed a very pure and holy woman.  I believe she was the most beloved woman in the world by God.....afterall, he chose her from all women to be the mother of Jesus.  I somehow feel "close" to her.  There are no words for me to fully explain it.  At times I seem to feel her presence, and it is usually at a time of distress or suffering in my life.  Of course I feel the presence of Almighty God, but (being a woman) I think I feel this Holy woman's presence too....like a mother helping me.  Those are some of my personal feelings toward Mary.  From the Bible I refer to the Gospel of Luke:
 
Luke 1: 26 - 38
26 In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth,
27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And he came to her and said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you!"
29 But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and considered in her mind what sort of greeting this might be.
30 And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.
31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus.
32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David,
33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there will be no end."
34 And Mary said to the angel, "How shall this be, since I have no husband?"
35 And the angel said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God.
36 And behold, your kinswoman Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son; and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren.
37 For with God nothing will be impossible."
38 And Mary said, "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word." And the angel departed from her.
 
And of course, this is where we/Catholics get the prayer, The Ave Maria, or Hail Mary.
 
"Hail Mary full of grace, the Lord is with you.
Blessed art thou among women, and blessed
the fruit of your womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, MOTHER OF GOD, pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of our death."
 
I understand that Muslims also hold Mary (Maryam) in high regard as well.  From the Quran I read this:
 
Islamic theology accepts that Jesus was the result of a virgin birth. The Quran tells the story of Maryam (Mary) in two places, 3:35-47 and 19:16-34, but provides much less detail than the New Testament. It says Maryam was dedicated to God's service by her mother while still in the womb (Quran 3:35), that she was cared for by Zakariya (Zecharias) (3:36), and that in her childhood God provided for her to help her grow strong and pious (3:37). God then sent an angel to announce that she could shortly expect to bear a son, specifying that "O Mary! Allah hath chosen thee and purified thee - chosen thee above the women of all nations." (Qur'an 3:42). It specifies that she conceived Jesus despite being a virgin: "She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!" (3:47).
 
This is quite close to my Bible and my beliefs.  I believe Mary was a wonderful, pure, and godly person.  I feel connected to her in many ways.  For instance, I like to bake bread.  Sometimes while I am working with the dough, I think to myself, "The Blessed Mother did this very thing way back in her own household, back in biblical times."  I wonder what she did, what did she like to do, did she smile a lot, what brought her joy and happiness in her personal life?  These are just some feelilngs I have about Mary, Hasan.  Funny, I've never discussed them before.
 
I think we have some good things in common.
 
Patty


Edited by PattyaMainer - 22 November 2008 at 8:32pm
"FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE, NO EXPLANATION IS POSSIBLE. FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE, NO EXPLANATION IS NECESSARY."
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Nur_Ilahi
 
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Quote Nur_Ilahi Replybullet Posted: 23 November 2008 at 4:11am
Hi Pattya,
 
Just a gentle question, who among the three in the Trinity created you, me, the furthest of the planet, the tiniest of our veins, the brightest of the stars,or the deepest of the oceans? Was it God, The Spirit or Jesus?
 
Salam.
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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PattyaMainer
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Quote PattyaMainer Replybullet Posted: 23 November 2008 at 6:54am
Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi

Hi Pattya,
 
Just a gentle question, who among the three in the Trinity created you, me, the furthest of the planet, the tiniest of our veins, the brightest of the stars,or the deepest of the oceans? Was it God, The Spirit or Jesus?
 
Salam.
 
God.....which includes Jesus and the Holy Spirit.  Just as I am a person, wife and mother, when I perform a task (say, baking cookies) It is I who creates the cookies.  I am all the other entities too, so my wife and mother part of me are also creating the cookies.
 
Blessings,
Patty
"FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE, NO EXPLANATION IS POSSIBLE. FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE, NO EXPLANATION IS NECESSARY."
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Quote Hyposonic Replybullet Posted: 23 November 2008 at 1:40pm
I believe loves all human beings so much that He called Himself Most Forgiving. He created us with the strengths and weaknesses. There are ways of redeeming ourselves from our daily sins if we repent with honesty and sincerity.
 
 

Funny you believe this, since that which is called merciful [your god] condemns human beings to a life of eternal pain if they don't have a metaphysical belief system.

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism"
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 24 November 2008 at 12:16am
I'm not sure if the head covering is still being talked about, but there is much on the heading covering if you do a search of the forum, there is entensive information and discussions.
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Quote Nur_Ilahi Replybullet Posted: 24 November 2008 at 5:05am
God.....which includes Jesus and the Holy Spirit.  Just as I am a person, wife and mother, when I perform a task (say, baking cookies) It is I who creates the cookies.  I am all the other entities too, so my wife and mother part of me are also creating the cookies
 
But Patty, when Adam was created, where was Jesus, where was the Holy spirit? The previous prophets all worshipped One God. God is the beginning and He is also the End.
 
Nothing in the Bible says that Jesus created the tiniest of the veins, nor the deepest of the ocean, nor does the Holy spirit had any share in creating any of the things that you see in this world.  God created Adam, God created all the prophets and God also created Mary. If Mary was created by God, how could God create a minor God? (Jesus).
 
To me this analogy perhaps may explain the Trinity.
 
There is a brilliant scientist who created the most sophisticated robot. It can do all tasks that a human could do. After creating this robot, the scientist put on the batteries and switch it on. The robot went around doing all the things that the scientist commanded. When the time is up, the scientist switched off the robot and the robot stays stationary.
 
The scientist (God) could never be in the robot (Jesus), nor could the robot function without the battery or electricity (Holy Spirit or Soul).
 
A God that could create the furthest of the planets, the hottest of the sun or the minutest of an atom, how could He be in a human being who needed another human being for his survival (Mary)?
 
God is AlMighty, He is The Creator, He who has no Beginning and He who has no End. He does not need any of His creations, but His creations need Him. He is Most Merciful and Most Forgiving, even how much we sinned, did He ever forgot to show His blessings in the form of air to breathe, water to drink or food to eat? To any human beings regardless of race, nationality or religion?
No. He never forgets! His Love is so great, it knows no boundaries of colour, race or rank.
 
I hope Patty,  you will ponder on these points. Because we live in the same planet, breathe the same air, drink the same water and stand on the same earth, there could only be One source that shower these blessings, that is from The One and Only God.
 
Salam.
 
 
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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Quote Nur_Ilahi Replybullet Posted: 24 November 2008 at 5:10am

Funny you believe this, since that which is called merciful [your god] condemns human beings to a life of eternal pain if they don't have a metaphysical belief system.

 
The most important factor or element that God bestowed on human beings is LOVE. Without love we cannot survive in this world. If a mother does not has love, her child will never ever survive. If a father has no love, the family would not have food on the table. If a teacher has no love, people will be ignorant. So on and so forth.
 
Only those who had never experience True Love, who never ever appreciate True Love, will find that life is full of eternal pain.
 
God also created everything in pairs or opposites. He created life, He also created Death. Do we have a choice? Yes we do. So if you think that life is full of eternal pain, what is your choice?
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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Quote Chrysalis Replybullet Posted: 24 November 2008 at 5:25am
Originally posted by Hyposonic

 

Funny you believe this, since that which is called merciful [your god] condemns human beings to a life of eternal pain if they don't have a metaphysical belief system.

 
For every action there is an equal reaction. So, if we perform misdeeds during this lifetime, we shall reap what we have sowed.
 
So, God hasnt 'condemned' us to anything really, Human Biengs have a free will and the ability to practise it. . . so basically we have the ability to control our fate in the hereafter. A misdeed needs to be awarded accordingly and a good deed needs to be awarded accordingly, that doesnt make God unmerciful - it makes Him 'Just'. (the term good deeds has been used generally - a lot to it there)
 
 
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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