IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Woman's head covering....

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Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by PattyaMainer

Originally posted by honeto

Hi, 
as the talk shifts from woman's head covering to promotion of peace, I must say that from what we know of the world so far, peace as what it means does not seem to be visible in sight. It may not be meant in the sense we all have been thinking.  And thus we are setting on wrong expectations.
Injustices, aggressions, killings and misery continues on for whatever reasons and motives, God knows best and has the account of All.

I believe that peace has to do with the self and achieving peace is a personal goal because at the end it is the individual who will be held accountable for his/her intentions and actions. So, if a person has figured that way out he/she feels at peace within him/herself. Because the whole world in that person's life span is between the day he/she took the first breath and the day he/she took the last one.
I believe in peacefully sharing this planet, but I must say that I don't believe that an athiest, a fire worshipper, a pagan, or one who believe in more than one God, and the one who believes in One God is going to all achieve the same, niether they are same. By saying we all are right none of them will either achieve peace for themselves nor for others, niether in this life nor after this.
And to me it seems the purpose of life to find or correct my course and direction and help others to see it too as a duty before I take my last breath.

Now as far staying with the topic, Patty what about that quote where men are not to cover, yet I see many Catholic men with the Church do cover??
Hasan 

Hi Hasan,

As far as obtaining peace in this life goes, I leave it to God....not many gods, but the God of Abraham who created all people and all on earth, and all in the universe.  It is far beyond me to say more.

Regarding your concern about Catholic men who do cover, I can explain this:  Catholic men who are not priests, bishops, deacons, cardinals, or the pope are called laity.  They do not cover at all in church....no more than they would wear a hat inside a home (which in our culture is considered rude for men to do.)  If you re-read my former post carefully, you will see the "religious", bishops, cardinals, etc., do NOT wear head covering while saying the prayers or during some of the more sacred times during the mass, and THAT is what St. Paul speaks of in I Corinthians if you read it closely.

Hasan, I just want you to know that I respect you for taking a stand for what you believe, even though we may differ in what we believe somewhat.  That takes great courage.  In your heart I know that you are doing what God has told you to do, and I am sure you are very favored and loved by Him.

Patty 

Hi Patty,
thanks for your reply, I was mainly refering to higher priests or even Pope who do cover their heads in some form while leading a mass/prayer service.
It seems we both live for one purpose like many others, to serve our maker and to seek his Forgiveness and Mercy not just for ourselves but for others as well. If we differ is only to our method. I do not believe or think that if we really care for each other and have humanly love for each other to not to show that in our words. Those words are not meant to increase the distance between rather to bring you close to the truth, which there is only one without a substitute.

Can you explain how do you believe Mary to be Mother of God? in other words God has a Mother? or a none God mother gives birth to a God? How come Mother of God is not a God hereself? How that can be, or all these are just words that are not to be taken as they sound.
I want to know your personal belief about it, as well as if you can explain the church teachings about it too.

Hasan

Hello Hasan,

I believe that Mary is the Mother of God because Jesus and God are the same to me (Holy Trinity).  As you know I believe God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are three separate entities which form the Triune Godhead.  It takes a LOT of faith to understand the Trinity.  No, Mary is not a God herself, but she is indeed a very pure and holy woman.  I believe she was the most beloved woman in the world by God.....afterall, he chose her from all women to be the mother of Jesus.  I somehow feel "close" to her.  There are no words for me to fully explain it.  At times I seem to feel her presence, and it is usually at a time of distress or suffering in my life.  Of course I feel the presence of Almighty God, but (being a woman) I think I feel this Holy woman's presence too....like a mother helping me.  Those are some of my personal feelings toward Mary.  From the Bible I refer to the Gospel of Luke:

Luke 1: 26 - 38 

26 
In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, 

27 
to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. 

28 
And he came to her and said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you!" 

29 
But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and considered in her mind what sort of greeting this might be. 

30 
And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 

31 
And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. 

32 
He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, 

33 
and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there will be no end." 

34 
And Mary said to the angel, "How shall this be, since I have no husband?" 

35 
And the angel said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God. 

36 
And behold, your kinswoman Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son; and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren. 

37 
For with God nothing will be impossible." 

38 
And Mary said, "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word." And the angel departed from her. 

And of course, this is where we/Catholics get the prayer, The Ave Maria, or Hail Mary.

"Hail Mary full of grace, the Lord is with you.
Blessed art thou among women, and blessed
the fruit of your womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, MOTHER OF GOD, pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of our death."

I understand that Muslims also hold Mary (Maryam) in high regard as well.  From the Quran I read this:

Islamic theology accepts that Jesus was the result of a virgin birth. The Quran tells the story of Maryam (Mary) in two places, 3:35-47 and 19:16-34, but provides much less detail than the New Testament. It says Maryam was dedicated to God's service by her mother while still in the womb (Quran 3:35), that she was cared for by Zakariya (Zecharias) (3:36), and that in her childhood God provided for her to help her grow strong and pious (3:37). God then sent an angel to announce that she could shortly expect to bear a son, specifying that "O Mary! Allah hath chosen thee and purified thee - chosen thee above the women of all nations." (Qur'an 3:42). It specifies that she conceived Jesus despite being a virgin: "She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!" (3:47). 

This is quite close to my Bible and my beliefs.  I believe Mary was a wonderful, pure, and godly person.  I feel connected to her in many ways.  For instance, I like to bake bread.  Sometimes while I am working with the dough, I think to myself, "The Blessed Mother did this very thing way back in her own household, back in biblical times."  I wonder what she did, what did she like to do, did she smile a lot, what brought her joy and happiness in her personal life?  These are just some feelilngs I have about Mary, Hasan.  Funny, I've never discussed them before.

I think we have some good things in common.

Patty

Edited by PattyaMainer - 22 November 2008 at 8:32pm

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