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Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Ali bin Abi Talib. Post Reply Post New Topic
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Friendship
 
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Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2008 at 11:51am
Assalamu alaikum,
Brother Asda. 
It could be so. But which kind of love? The love of the righteous ones or the love based on Arab customs? Yes , based on Arab customs, I agree because the Quraysh said that was because the holy Prophet had no male child and the Arabs regard the first son of their uncles as their sons. We practised the same in our clan because our ancestors were from Madina. I am accused of loving my nephews more than my biological children. On love based on righteousness, if Ali also enters Firdaus, and I enter Firdaus who will be superior?I will reply you on Ibn Taymiyya latter.
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asda
 
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Quote asda Replybullet Posted: 03 November 2008 at 3:08pm
Wa'alaikumasalam...

the love for Imam Ali (a.s) is not based on any custom...its based on the prophet(a.s)'s own words (sunnah) and the merits given to them by Allah (s.w.t)...infact Imam Ali (a.s) was called the Wali of the People in verse 5:55....
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Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 04 November 2008 at 1:08am
Assalamu alaikum.

Probably in your local language 5:55 could mean so. But in the pure language in which the Qur'an was revealed that was not the interpretation and meaning of the verse. I also understood that to be so in English language. By the way are you tanslating the Qur'an on your own opinion or the opinion of  others based on sectarianism? Do you know the rules and regulations of translating a verse of the Qur'an? Do you know what is Aaman, Qat'iyyun, Zanniyun, Nas, Asl, Muqayyid etc? Have you considered 5:54? Can Allah love one and the holy Prophet hates him? If Allah loves me, is the love of the holy Apostle superior on me than that of Allah? What is the meaning of the lov of Allah? Does it mean following the holy Prophet as in 3:31?
My Question: I have a grandson who did to me what Hasan and Hussain did to the holy Propeht when he was praying. Now if there was anything special to them only, besides others, how could my grandson climb my back, my neck, push me and be my Imam when praying? Now where is the superiority of Hasan and Husain over my grandson?
My advise: You and me should be careful for the holy Propeht said, "Whoever lies against me intentionally (by interpreting the holy Qur'an acccording to his own desire) should reserve his place in hell fire".
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asda
 
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Quote asda Replybullet Posted: 04 November 2008 at 8:46am
Wa'alikumasslam

please dont compare the Grandson of the Prophet (A.S) with anybody...because the grandson of the Prophet (a.s) are the "Leaders of the youths of Paradise" see: Tirmidhi, Vol. II, p. 221 ; تاريخ الخلفاء، ص189 .....thus this is a very inapropriate comparison....

secondly i rely only on scholars for tafseer and translations....i have no right to do it myself....

i will quote on of the tafsirs wich gives this fact:

{ إِنَّمَا وَلِيُّكُمُ ٱللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَٱلَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ ٱلَّذِينَ يُقِيمُونَ ٱلصَّلاَةَ وَيُؤْتُونَ ٱلزَّكَاةَ وَهُمْ رَاكِعُونَ }


(Your guardian can be only Allah; and His messenger and those who believe…) [5:55]. Said Jabir ibn ‘Abd Allah: “‘Abd Allah ibn Sallam went to the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, and said: ‘O Messenger of Allah, some people from Banu Qurayzah and Banu’l-Nadir have deserted us and swore not to keep our company. And we cannot keep the company of your Companions due to the distance separating us’. He then complained about the bad treatment he received from the Jews, and so this verse was revealed. When the Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, read to him, he said: ‘We accept Allah, His Messenger and the believers as guardians’ ”. Al-Kalbi related something close to this and added that the end of the verse was revealed about ‘Ali ibn Abi Talib, for he gave his ring to a beggar while he was bowing during prayer. Abu Bakr al-Tamimi informed us> ‘Abd Allah ibn Muhammad ibn Ja‘far> al-Husayn ibn Muhammad ibn Abi Hurayrah> ‘Abd Allah ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhab> Muhammad ibn al-Aswad> Muhammad ibn Marwan> Muhammad ibn al-Sa’ib> Abu Salih> Ibn ‘Abbas who said: “Accompanied by a group of believers from amongst his people, ‘Abd Allah ibn Sallam came to see the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace. They said: ‘O Messenger of Allah, our houses are very far and we have no assembly or a place in which we can gather for chatting. When our people saw that we believed in Allah and His Messenger and confirmed his call, they eschewed us and vowed never to keep our company, speak with us or marry from or into us. This has proved too hard for us’. The Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, replied: ‘(Your guardian can be only Allah; and His messenger and those who believe)’, up to the end of the verse. Then the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, went out to the mosque. Some people were standing in prayer while others were bowing. He saw a beggar in the mosque and he asked him: ‘Did you get something from anyone?’ The beggar replied: ‘Yes, I got a ring of gold’. The Prophet asked him: ‘Who gave it to you?’ The beggar said: ‘That person who is standing in prayer’, and he pointed to ‘Ali ibn Abi Talib. The Prophet asked him again: ‘In which position did he give it to you?’ The beggar said: ‘He gave it to me while bowing in prayer’. The Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, said ‘Allah is the greatest!’ and then recited (And whoso taketh Allah and His messenger and those who believe for guardian (will know that), lo! the party of Allah, they are the victorious)” [5:56].



http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=86&tSoraNo=5&tAyahNo=55&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0



i just wanted to show u dat i have not brought this up from my own pocket...i never do dat...

so according to the above tafseer, the Wali of People is Imam Ali (a.s).....a superior position than other people..

Edited by asda - 04 November 2008 at 8:47am
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