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Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
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asda
 
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Quote asda Replybullet Posted: 18 October 2008 at 5:51am
My answers are in green


Originally posted by Friendship


<P =MsonoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT face=Calibri size=3> </o:p>


<P =MsonoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=Calibri><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Answer: The verse according to its Asbaabun Nuzuul was revealed at the instant of Tabuuk expedition, and the name of the hypocrites who refused to participate (80 in all) were recorded by then.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </SPAN>3 Sahabas who did not participate were pardoned by Allah. (9:118). <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The number of the Sahabas that participated in the expedition was 30,000. I do not know the number of the people of Madina. So the percentage is very negligible; 3 out of 30,000.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">   </SPAN></SPAN>

we are not talking about percentage here, or majority... if u want to talk about the majority then i can give u the example of Uhud... but the fact i am trying to tell u is that it is very hard to understand that there were no hypocrites among the people around the Prophet (s.a.w)....wen Allah (s.w.t) has repeatedly talked about them..



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<P =MsonoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=Calibri><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Answer: Yes they were hypocrites and they knew who they were. They were not the Muhajiriin, but the people of Abdullah ibn Ubayy ibn Salul. Please do not accuse them of hypocrisy! They were so to speak our guinea pigs, rabbits, frogs and dogfish. These animals were dissected by those who want to become doctors so as to learn how to operate on human beings. The hypocrites were used as model by Allah to teach us and warn us what hypocrisy is all about! We do not take lessons, while we should have! <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></SPAN>

I dont think bad-mouthing the hypocrites is not something one shud do....can u plese prove that this aayah was for Abdullah ibn Ubayy ibn Salul and his people.... the tafsirs in the following verse talk about hypocrites in general...



<P =MsonoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><FONT face=Calibri>Answer: According to Asbaabul Nuzuul this verse was revealed in relation to the deaf, Thaabit ibn Qays bin Shimaal. In another narration Abubakar and Umar raised their voices when a caravan from Banii Tamiim arrived. Umar started calling in a loud voice the name of Aqra’a while Abubakar was calling the name of another man. So the verse was revealed that they should not shout in the presence of the holy Prophet. Anyway we do not raise our voice in the presence of our leaders. But one good thing about the Sahabas was they said what was in their mind and advised the holy Prophet on what was best for them. If they raised their voice for him to hear is a different thing altogether.<o:p></o:p></SPAN>



another time wen Umar Raised his voice above the Prophet (s.a.w) was at the event of thursday before the Prophet (a.s)'s death...will be discussed later...


<P =MsonoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><FONT face=Calibri>Answer:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </SPAN>The captives of Badr were all Quraysh their relations. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>They came to Abubakar and Umar asking them to intercede on their behalf. The holy Prophet sought their opinion as was given in the Siira. Then the holy Prophet was given the hard task of choosing between what Umar said and what Abubakar said. The Prophet showed leniency towards them while Umar wanted them to be beheaded. Understand the difference between opposing the Prophets order and advise please. Any body who opposed his order is dealt with on the spot. When the holy Prophet told the Ansars to withdraw from the battle field and were replaced by Hamza, Ali and Ubayda they obeyed him. The holy Prophet took their advise and they went and occupied the wells of badr and they stood on wet sand.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">   </SPAN><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN>



Dont u think opposing the words of the Prophet (s.a.w) is a major act of disobedience???? it is sad that u have also tried to lower the status of Prophet (s.a.w) wen it comes to saving the people who were with the Prophet (a.s).....
Our Lord also us that: "Whoever obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah." (Surat an-Nisa': 80)

isnt going against the words of Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) as act of disobedience to Allah (s.w.t) as well...

In another verse, our Lord states:

You should accept whatever the Messenger gives you and abandon whatever he tells you to abandon. Have taqwa of Allah... (Surat al-Hashr: 7)






<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Answer: I have come across this incident in my reference books. It was said that the camel of Abu Zarr tarried behind and he disembarked and went on foot.</SPAN>



Some ppl dint like the orders of the prophet (s.a.w) as they dint want to slaughter their camels...even tho the Prophet (s.a.w) had commanded them to do it to overcome the scarcity of the food...

<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Answer: Please read the story of Hudaibiya carefully by Dr. Muhammad Abdulqadir Abu Faris. Let us praise the courage of the Sahabas and their determination to go and perform the Umra. They were already at war with the Quraysh and it would an insult to them to allow the Quraysh to deter them from performing the Umra according to their tradition. Allah gave permission in Sura 2:194. I could not imagine them bowing down to Quraysh if they were sincere believers. So you are saying that Ali bin Abi was a coward? <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Look, they won the Badr, Uhud partially, Khandaq. Any way Allah pardoned them and they offered Bai’at to the holy Prophet which Allah was pleased with. Remember that Ali bin Abi Talib refused to strike the name Muhammad Rasulullah in place of Muhammad ibn Abdullah as requested by Suhayl.<o:p></o:p></SPAN>



Maula Ali (a.s) was not a coward...he was simply acting to the verse i quoted above and dint want to go against the words of the Prophet (s.a.w)....
wat i have reffered to is the complaining of Umar at the time of Hudaybiyah and his questions on the Prophethood of Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w)....and he was not satisfied with the answer of the Prophet (s.a.w)..... u can see the emaan of Umar reflecing there...and his level of yaqeen...

there is a very vast difference on the course of obedience to Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) between u and me... For u, anybody can stand up and question the words of the MESSENGER OF ALLAH (s.w.t), while for us its different....wen the command of Prophet Muhammad is cannot be questioned by anybody, exept wen the Prophet (s.a.w) himself takes back his words...and thats what happend wen Imam Ali (a.s) was asked to strike off some words.... Infact i am pretty much sure, of Imam Ali (a.s) would have done that, the people wud have surly questioned his belief in Prophethood.... Look at the Zulm done on the Merits of Imam Ali (a.s)....some call him god, others call him wrong in many actions...there is attack on him from every angles....ppl tried to raise his status than the orignal, and they tried to lower it than the orignal.... None of the People around the Prophet (s.a.w) has faced such zulm....




<P =MsonoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><FONT face=Calibri>Answer: Yes. You must understand the Sahabas did not have the same level of understanding. It was the tribe of Hawazain who just embraced Islam who showed in- patience in the distribution of the large amount of the spoils. They did not understand the generosity of the holy Prophet. To the complainer Ju’ayl b. Suraaqa the holy Prophet said, “I have treated them generously so that they may become Muslims, and I have entrusted Ju’ayl to his Islam .Distributing spoils of war was the prerogative of the holy Prophet and nobody else. Dhuul-Khuwaysira also complained and accused the holy Apostle of injustice because the holy Prophet gave some Sahabas 100 camels each, others less then that and Abbas b. Mirdaas less. So what?<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </SPAN>Only 4 people out of 6,000 troops complained. They were not even from the Ansars. It is unfair to generalize!<o:p></o:p></SPAN>



i think i have explaind the obedience of Prophet (s.a.w) in a single verse....wich i think i dont need to repeat..


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<P =MsonoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><FONT face=Calibri>Answer: Probably those who complained did not know that the holy Prophet promised Usamah that he will visit the grave of his father. The expedition had the secondary purpose of war, but the primary cause was the visit by Usamah to his father’s grave. Usmah was just 22 years old and naturally they would complain of that. The samething happened during the battle of Badr, Uhud and Khandaq. At least they obeyed the decision of Abubakar. <o:p></o:p></SPAN>


for those who went against the words of the Prophet (s.a.w), went against the words of Allah (s.w.t)...

y do u think the True Companions of the Prophet (s.a.w) have a status in the eyes of Allah (s.w.t) which hardly anybody can have today....i will not be wrong if i say almost Impossible....THEY HAD SEVERE TESTS TO GIVE IN THOSE DAYS.....



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<P =MsonoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=Calibri><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Answer: I praised the action of the Sahabas because the holy Prophet said he left them the Book of Allah and his Sunna. We do not need any will from the holy Prophet. If Allah was not pleased with their action they could have been rebuked by Him.</SPAN>

YA ALLAH!!!!!!!! HOW CAN U JUSTIFY SUCH AN ACT OF ZULM ON PROPHET (s.a.w).....what was the Prophet (a.s) doing....GIVING HIS SUNNAH...IN THE FORM OF WORDS... and the reason of him doing this is given in the following hadith:

before i relate to u the famous hadith....i would remind u that you have actually gone against he words of Umar wen u say "the holy Prophet said he left them the Book of Allah and his
Sunna." because Umar has also said (given in bold)..

This is what we read in Sahih al-Bukhari as narrated by Ibn 'Abbas:

When the time of the death of the Prophet approached while there were some men in the house, and among them was 'Umar Ibn al-Khattab, the Prophet said: "Come near let me write for you a writing
after which you will never go astray." 'Umar said: "The Prophet is seriously ill, and you have the Qur'an, so Allah's Book is sufficient for us." The people in the house differed and disputed. Some of them said, "Come near so that Allah's Apostle may write for you a writing after which you will not go astray," while the others said what 'Umar said. When they made much noise and quarreled greatly in front of the Prophet, he said to them, "Go away and leave me." Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was a great disaster that their quarrel and noise prevented Allah's Apostle from writing a statement for them.
Sahih al Bukhari Arabic-English Volume 9 hadith number 468 and Volume 7 hadith 573


so according to umar....u dont need the sunnah...and the Book of Allah (s.w.t) is sufficient....and so we dont need the sunnah...

secondly the Prophet (s.a.w) wanted to write something which would help us not go astray...whatever he wanted it to write....but i am sure....whatever it was...if that document had been written, then u and me wouldnt be calling each other "ppl who have gone astray" from the true path....CUZ THE TRUE PATH WOULD HAVE BEEN MADE CLEAR.....


<P =MsonoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><FONT face=Calibri><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Answer: Those who conspired against the Ahl-al-bayt were well known- the people of Egypt, Iraq, Persia and Syria. There case is with Allah. If He likes He will forgive them or else He will punish them according to their intention. But today Islam is 1429 years. We have no excuse to give to Allah for our utter failure to establish the Khalifate! This is the greatest debacle. We should be concerned with what Allah revealed to us. How old were Hassan and Hussein?<o:p></o:p></SPAN>



can u please complete ure question in the last sentence...

since ure post is too long...i will look into the rest of the post in some time....

wsalaam



Edited by asda - 18 October 2008 at 6:07am
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Quote asda Replybullet Posted: 18 October 2008 at 11:25am
[QUOTE=Friendship]
<P =MsonoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><o:p><FONT face=Calibri> </o:p></SPAN>


<P =MsonoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><FONT face=Calibri>Answer: The holy Prophet said before a group of 3 Muslims embark on a journey they should select their leader. The incident of Saqifa was a decision taken by the Ansar and Muhajirin. Yes, the Ansar felt the shock of the departure of the holy Prophet more than the Muhajirin because he was their protector, who helped them against the children of Israel. Their action proved their understanding of Islam and the importance of a Khalifa of the Khalifa of Muhammad Rasulullah. Madina was their land and they were inclined to think of its protection. Imagine the Emperor Heraclius descending on them after the news? <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Let us be careful. If Allah chose good people to lead the Children of Israel and that they never failed them, are you saying that Allah chose bad people for those (Muslims) following the Islam brought by Muhammad Rasulullah? Know that the whole of the Muslim empire rebelled except the people of Madina and Makka.<o:p></o:p></SPAN>



u have given an example of the Children of Israel, and compared them to the Ummah of the Prophet (s.a.w)...
can u please tell me how did Allah (s.w.t) choose the leaders of the children of Israel??? secondly were they obidient, or they changed the ways of Prophet Musa (a.s)...


<P =MsonoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><FONT face=Calibri>Answer: It is wrong for a Muslim to call himself with a name other than a Muslim. If after the battle of Banu Al-Mustaliq the holy Prophet disallowed the Muhajirin calling themselves Muhajirin and the Ansar calling themselves Ansar, then those who today call themselves with a name other then Muslim will have a case to answer soon.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">   </SPAN>Anyway the holy Prophet predicted the division of his Umma into 73 parts, only one is with him. I am a Muslim not a Shiite, not Ahl-al-sunna, no Qadiriyya, not Tijjaniyya or Ahmadiya etc.<o:p></o:p></SPAN>



1st of all, i would like to ask, y do u differ the muhaajirun and ansars by calling them different names to adress them...
u claim that u r not a sunni, shia etc and just a muslim...i make the same claim...i am neither a sunni or shia...i am a true muslim....
but over here we are making a general comment...we all r muslims...but u surly have the aqeeda of a sunni...and u fiercly dont want to accept that abu bakr was wrong on his seat....i dont accuse u of dat...but its ure aqeeda right????

then the hanbali's shud not call them selfs as so, while other fiqha's shud not call them self with the names given to those groups???


infact, the Prophet (a.s) had denied that name calling (ansars and muhaajir) because he dint want his ummah to be a RACIST.....and for a fact act saqifa, the election of Abu Bakr was a cause of RACE AS WELL....am i wrong?



<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><FONT face=Calibri><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Answer: Sa’ad bin Ubadah an Ansar was the chief of banu Sa’ad. He was sick at that time. The Ansar thought of him as their leader as he was their leader during the second visit to Aqaba. Abubakar advised them that the Arab tribe would only recognize a Quraysh as a leader because of the position they occupied. He suggested the names of Umar and Abu Ubaydah. The argument continued. Umar refused and argued as I explained earlier. He quickly told Abubakar to lift his hand and he made hid pledge. He called the Ansar to do the same. They did. Yes, Sa’d bin Ubaada did not give his pledge and became determined to fight. The Ansar assured Abubakar that he is alone. He should therefore pay no attention to him. Anyway, I do not know if you read how he died. He died 15 A.H in Syria in a tunnel. His body quickly decayed (maggot) and those around heard a voice saying, “We have stung him with our arrows”. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Anyway, if the lessons in the Qur’an are not enough for one to fear Allah and to stick to Sunna, then as Ali bin Abi Talib said, “If I am guided anyone who followed me will be guided”. If what I said is true, then anyone who opposed me is wrong.<o:p></o:p></SPAN>



in the book called Encyclopedia of Islam, the writer confirms that Saad bin Ebaadah was the chief of the tribe of Khazraj...please see end of page 296 in the following link:
http://books.google.com/books?id=l8g0XYsyWrQC&pg=PA296&lpg=PA296&dq=%22saad+bin+%22+khazraj&source=web&ots=3Xp_hjeO7e&sig=f9PiMeMhl-c459lYhW2fjGvsMy0#PPA296,M1

Do u know who killed H.Saad bin Ibaadah (r.a) with arrows?? and y was he killed??

<P =MsonoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=Calibri><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Answer</SPAN>: <SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Yes the Ahl-bayt</SPAN> <SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">enjoyed special position</SPAN> in their <SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">position as Banu Hashim. This instruction is from Allah and hence the Sunna of the holy Prophet. Hassan and Hussein who did not participate in any of the Gazwa were given about 6,000 dirhams as their stipends! I have forgotten how much the wives of the holy Prophet were given. Umar bin Khattab paid 40,000 dirhams for the dowry of Umm Kulthum the daughter of Ali. Ali did not enjoy any special position except that of the ‘son’ of the holy Prophet. During the Tabuk expedition the holy Prophet appointed a blind man ibn Maktum as his Khalifa in Madina and Ali as head of his family. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN>



1st of all, the marriage of H.Ali (a.s)'s doghter never took place with Umar...
can anybody even imagine the high status given to maula Ali (a.s)....

Narrated Umm Salama:
The Messenger of Allah said: "Ali is with Quran, and Quran is with Ali. They shall not separate from each other till they both return to me by the Pool (of Paradise)."
Sunni references:

al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, p124 on the authority of Umm Salama
al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar, Ch. 9, section 2, pp 191,194
al-Awsat, by al-Tabarani; also in al-Saghir
Tarikh al-Khulafaa, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, p173

Please dont forget that the QURAN IS HUJJAT OF ALLAH(S.w.t) AND HIS FINAL AND COMPLETE MESSAGE!!!!!!

It is very much clear that Imam Ali (a.s) is given a rank above all the companions of the Prophet (a.s)...The Prophet (s.a.w) has taken the garuntee of his character till the day of Qiyama.....

and still u say that he was the "son" of the Prophet (s.a.w)???? is that only the only status u could fine???? i am sorry bro, but the status of Imam Ali (a.s) is much higher than u have mentioned....should i list out even some of the Hadith wich talk about his merits??? even the some will be soo much....just to start with, i will just give 3:

(1) Imam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal in his Musnad and Mir Seyyed Ali Hamadani Shafi'i in Mawaddati'l-Qurba towards the end of the fourth Mawadda, have recorded that the Holy Prophet said, "O Ali! You shall discharge responsibilities on my behalf, and you are my Vicegerent over my following."


(2) Imam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal in Musnad, Ibn Maghazili Faqih Shafi'i in Manaqib and Tha'labi in his Tafsir (commentary) have reported that the Holy Prophet said to Ali: "O Ali! You are my brother, successor, vicegerent, and the payer of my debt."

(3) Abu Qasim Husain Bin Muhammad (Raghib Ispahani) in Mahadhiratu'l-Udaba wa Muhawaratu'sh-Shu'ara wa'l-Balagha (printed in Amira-e-Shazafiyya, Seyyed Husain Afandi, 1326 A.H.), part II, page 213, quotes from Ibn Malik that the Prophet said: "Verily, my friend, helper, Vicegerent, and the choicest of men whom I am leaving behind, who will pay my debt and fulfill my promise, is Ali Bin Abu Talib."

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Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 18 October 2008 at 4:01pm
Assalamu alaikum
 
1) APOINTMENT OF LEADERS FOR THE JEWS: Read the Bible and its commentary by Reverend Matthew Henry. The Qur'an gave example chapter 2:146 and other verses of the Qur'an. They all obeyed Allah and if they failed were punished by Allah eg. Jonah and Zunnun.
2) Muhajirin and Ansar were descriptive following the Command of Allah Qur'an for eg Qur'an 73:10 etc. Those who drop the use of invented names and adopt the name of Muslim will all enter Paradise if they followed the Sunna of the holy Prophet.
3) Aqeeda means Tawheed. Read this description in the book of Aqeeda written by Ibn Taymiyya and Jazaa'iri.
4) Abubakar did not wrong himself. It was the Ansar's who gave their claim of leadership and according to the Injunctions of Allah and the customs of Quraysh Abubakar was elected. Can Allah be wrong? Why should we not accuse of Ali for repulsing Abu Sufyan. Reflect on the following sayings of Ali in an address to Mu'awiya:
a) If Usman was the right claimant of the Khalifate and a relative of the Messenger of Allah, (and the one who married his daughters), I, too am the right claimant of the Khalifate and his relative (and the one who married his daughter). Behold Allah has appointed me the Khalif with the concensus of the Muhajirins and the Ansars. (kifayat ul matalib p.58)
b) As you know well had the Khalifate been under the control or authority of certain people, they would have envied us and boasted for their favour on us.
c) Again your father (Abu Sufyan) visited me at the time of the demise of the holy Prophet and stressed on my right for successsion to the holy Prophet and the government and that he would support me against those who would oppose me. Then he requested me to advance the hand for allegiance, but I did not do so. (Tabari Vol. 3 P. 202)
Ali never disparaged the Sahabas he said, Look! Not for conveying news to you, I am recounting to you bounties of Allah to us. The emigrants and Ansar who were martyed in the Way of Allah were all superior persons. (Were Umar, Usman martyed before Ali!) But one martyr from us was such who was given the title of Syed dush shuhda and the Prophet in his funeral prayer  offered 70 takbirs and thus gave him (Hamzat) a singularity. If, Allah had not prohibited (His Servnts) from self-praising, I, the describer would have enumerated many virtues (of my own self)).  According to your view, I have envied all the Khalifs and revolted against all of them.. If that is a fact, even then this is not a crime against you for which I should offer my apology against you. YOU ARE PUTTING THAT BLAME ON ME ON WHICH I AM NOT INVOLVED ABOUT. (Naahj-al-Balaghah vol.2 p, 21) 
5) The names Allah named the inhibitants of paradise those who followed their prophets are Muslims, Righteous, Muttaqeen, Mansuuriun, etc. Any name besides these are inventions as in Qur'an chapter 33:4.
6) Election of Abubakr as explained earlier was based on the Command of Allah, the Sunna of the holy Prophet and the customs of Quraysh. It is not based on race like the Jews. For example the Levites.
7) For the killing of Sa'ad bin Ubaadah read Tabaqat Kubra vol 3 p 577. This is a lesson for us to all those who accepted Islam for personal gains.
8) I read Umar married the daughter of Ali Umm Kalthum. If you deny it, it is not part of Islam. If I believe in it, it is not aprt of Islam. Me and you ar all Muslims and once we follow the Sunna of Muhammad we shall enter paradise.
Friendship.
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Quote asda Replybullet Posted: 20 October 2008 at 10:16am
Assalamu alaikum
wa'alikumassalam

i really like ure answers as it makes me do further research...jazakallah....that is y my answers might take time...sorry in advance for future...

1) APOINTMENT OF LEADERS FOR THE JEWS: Read the Bible and its commentary by Reverend Matthew Henry. The Qur'an gave example chapter 2:146 and other verses of the Qur'an. They all obeyed Allah and if they failed were punished by Allah eg. Jonah and Zunnun.

i never said they were disobedient...but the main point i wanted to mention is that how were the successors of Prophet Musa (a.s) chosen...because the camparison (between the Ummah of Prophet Musa (a.s) and Ummah of Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w))u have given is quite beutiful...i wanted to further discuss on it

2) Muhajirin and Ansar were descriptive following the Command of Allah Qur'an for eg Qur'an 73:10 etc. Those who drop the use of invented names and adopt the name of Muslim will all enter Paradise if they followed the Sunna of the holy Prophet.

so...according to as u say, those who call themselfs as ansar or muajireen are not following the sunnah of the Prophet (s.a.w) right??? that also means at saqifa, the people had forgotten the sunnah of the Prophet (s.a.w) and classified themselves as ansar and muhajireen....i want ure comment on this..

3) Aqeeda means Tawheed. Read this description in the book of Aqeeda written by Ibn Taymiyya and Jazaa'iri.

actually ibn taymiyya is not someone authentic at all...considering his writings being quite anti ahlel bayt (a.s)...surely the base of aqeeda is Tawheed....no doubt....

4) Abubakar did not wrong himself. It was the Ansar's who gave their claim of leadership and according to the Injunctions of Allah and the customs of Quraysh Abubakar was elected. Can Allah be wrong? Why should we not accuse of Ali for repulsing Abu Sufyan. Reflect on the following sayings of Ali in an address to Mu'awiya:
Allah (s.w.t) and the Prophet (s.a.w) cannot be wrong..i think u have sarcstically asked me.....but the fact is...people can be wrong..

a) If Usman was the right claimant of the Khalifate and a relative of the Messenger of Allah, (and the one who married his daughters), I, too am the right claimant of the Khalifate and his relative (and the one who married his daughter). Behold Allah has appointed me the Khalif with the concensus of the Muhajirins and the Ansars. (kifayat ul matalib p.58)

b) As you know well had the Khalifate been under the control or authority of certain people, they would have envied us and boasted for their favour on us.
c) Again your father (Abu Sufyan) visited me at the time of the demise of the holy Prophet and stressed on my right for successsion to the holy Prophet and the government and that he would support me against those who would oppose me. Then he requested me to advance the hand for allegiance, but I did not do so. (Tabari Vol. 3 P. 202)

the fact is...abu safyan is always considered as a hypocrite...Imam Ali (a.s) knew his evil intentions...
There were many reasons due to which Imam Ali (a.s) did not pick his sword....


Ali never disparaged the Sahabas he said, Look! Not for conveying news to you, I am recounting to you bounties of Allah to us. The emigrants and Ansar who were martyed in the Way of Allah were all superior persons. (Were Umar, Usman martyed before Ali!) But one martyr from us was such who was given the title of Syed dush shuhda and the Prophet in his funeral prayer offered 70 takbirs and thus gave him (Hamzat) a singularity. If, Allah had not prohibited (His Servnts) from self-praising, I, the describer would have enumerated many virtues (of my own self)). According to your view, I have envied all the Khalifs and revolted against all of them.. If that is a fact, even then this is not a crime against you for which I should offer my apology against you. YOU ARE PUTTING THAT BLAME ON ME ON WHICH I AM NOT INVOLVED ABOUT. (Naahj-al-Balaghah vol.2 p, 21)
can u please let me know as to in which sermon the above words have been mentioned...as i have searched these words on the internet..i could not find them in naahj-al-balaagah.....this book is available online...it would be ez for u to show me...

5) The names Allah named the inhibitants of paradise those who followed their prophets are Muslims, Righteous, Muttaqeen, Mansuuriun, etc. Any name besides these are inventions as in Qur'an chapter 33:4.
6) Election of Abubakr as explained earlier was based on the Command of Allah, the Sunna of the holy Prophet and the customs of Quraysh. It is not based on race like the Jews. For example the Levites.
surly the point of successorship is not based on race...it is only based on the command of Allah (s.w.t), as we see in the PAST that the appointment of successor/leader was done by ONLY ALLAH (s.w.t)...and none interveened in it..
7) For the killing of Sa'ad bin Ubaadah read Tabaqat Kubra vol 3 p 577. This is a lesson for us to all those who accepted Islam for personal gains.
it is rally hard to get the books u mention...can u please elighten me as to who killed and who ordered to kill saad bin Ebaadah(r.a).....

8) I read Umar married the daughter of Ali Umm Kalthum. If you deny it, it is not part of Islam. If I believe in it, it is not aprt of Islam. Me and you ar all Muslims and once we follow the Sunna of Muhammad we shall enter paradise.
Inshallah bro.. Inshallah All of us will understand the Sunnah of the Prophet (s.a.w) and do our best to follow it....and not be among the rejectors...

wsalaam
Asad Raza
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Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 21 October 2008 at 2:35pm
Assalamu alaikum.
wa'alikumassalam

i really like ure answers as it makes me do further research...jazakallah....that is y my answers might take time...sorry in advance for future...

I sincerely hope that the members of this forum will concentrate on reading because new books are always added. We should also be cautions because the holy Prophet said, "Whoever says something about the holy Qur'an based on is opinion or out of ignorance (about what he does not know) is building himself a house in the hell!". I hope you will understand also the importance of the Muslim Umma having leaders who are well versed in the Sunna of the holy Prophet. Imagine I am a head of state of my country! The Muslims will be united then as Promised by Allah.
  
i never said they were disobedient...but the main point i wanted to mention is that how were the successors of Prophet Musa (a.s) chosen...because the camparison (between the Ummah of Prophet Musa (a.s) and Ummah of Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w))u have given is quite beutiful...i wanted to further discuss on it
See the Book of Numbers:13.  I always advice the Muslims to read the bible and ignore the rubbish and fairly tales inside it.  But briefly:
Yes, immediately after the Exodus a census was taken and the Jews gave their population at 630,4000 adult fighting men. About 2 years later, Allah commanded them to go and spy the land of Canaan, the land Allah promised them. Prophet Musa selected 12 people from their different branches to spy the land. They refused to enter on the pretext that the people were gaints that they felt as small as grasshoppers. Only Joshua and Caleb obeyed the command and explored the land of canaan. So Allah Promised that none of those who were matured would see the promised land. The age of maturity for them was 20 years. (for us 13-15 years with the same law applying). Joshua was the older and after the death of Propeht Musa he was given the leadership. The Jews prospered and enjoyed peace and prosperity. They were able to defeat their enemies. it showed that leadership was based on obeddience to Allah and His Messenger and those who disobedied are excluded from the Mercy of Allah. But what are we doing today?  Our leaders are always those who disobeyed Allah.  
are not following the sunnah of the Prophet (s.a.w) right??? that also means at saqifa, the people had forgotten the sunnah of the Prophet (s.a.w) and classified themselves as ansar and muhajireen....i want ure comment on this..
No! The name of Ansar and Muhajirin was only for historical purposes. If the names were not mentioned we would not be able to understand what actually happened. Please read Hayatus Sahaba Arabic version V0l.1 pp. 67, 71-72, 75-76.  For English version PP. 513, 519.
actually ibn taymiyya is not someone authentic at all...considering his writings being quite anti ahlel bayt (a.s)...surely the base of aqeeda is Tawheed....no doubt....

No!. Ibn Taymiyya never said something bad agaisnt Ali bin Abi Talib. Read his Sunnana nabwi.
 
 
can u please let me know as to in which sermon the above words have been mentioned...as i have searched these words on the internet..i could not find them in naahj-al-balaagah.....this book is available online...it would be ez for u to show me...
Read The letters of Ali bin Abi Talib by Muhammad Ayb Khan Published by International Islamic Publisheers Ltd Pakistan. Ist Edition, 1991.
it is rally hard to get the books u mention...can u please elighten me as to who killed and who ordered to kill saad bin Ebaadah(r.a).....
Since he died in Syria, not much was written about him. It was one Muhammad bin Sirin who mentioned the story that some youths were present when he died. They heard a voice saying we killed him with our arrows.
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Quote asda Replybullet Posted: 22 October 2008 at 11:40am
[QUOTE=Friendship] Assalamu alaikum.
wa'alikumassalam

No! The name of Ansar and Muhajirin was only for historical purposes. If the names were not mentioned we would not be able to understand what actually happened. Please read Hayatus Sahaba Arabic version V0l.1 pp. 67, 71-72, 75-76.  For English version PP. 513, 519.

the reason for the Prophet (s.a.w) advising them not to call themselves as ansar or muhajireen is because (as i understand) he wanted to finish of the race system....that no race will be better than the other...only taqwa matters...but as far as i know, at saqifa the muhajireen were considered to be better for khilafa on the reason of their status as muhajireen...

No!. Ibn Taymiyya never said something bad agaisnt Ali bin Abi Talib. Read his Sunnana nabwi.


ibn tymiyya was against the Ahlel Bayt...and not only against Imam Ali (a.s)...infact he is the one source of sectarian violence in terms of literature wen it comes to the shia/sunni conflict..
i will quote some of his words against Imam Ali (a.s) here:

Minhaj al-Sunnah, Volume 8 page 230:
وعلي يقاتل ليطاع ويتصرف في النفوس والأموال فكيف يجعل هذا قتالا على الدين
“Ali fought to secure obedience and rule the people and money, so how can that be deemed as fighting for sake of religion?”



Minhaj al-Sunnah, Volume 4 page 137:
وعلي رضي الله عنه كان قصده أن يتزوج عليها فله في أذاها غرض
“Ali intended to marry so as to hurt her (Fatima) on purpose.”



infact he was unsure about the eemaan of Imam Ali (a.s):

Minhaj al-Sunnah, Volume 8 page 205:
وأما إسلام علي فهل يكون مخرجا له من الكفر على قولين
There are two opinions as to whether Ali's conversion to Islam released him from kufr or not"

thus there is no doubt that he is a clear enemy of Ahlel Bayt (a.s)...if u want his comments on other members of Ahlel Bayt (a.s) then i can bring u dat as well..


Read The letters of Ali bin Abi Talib by Muhammad Ayb Khan Published by International Islamic Publisheers Ltd Pakistan. Ist Edition, 1991.
i would appreciate if u would give me the exact letter number or the topic of the letter so that i can search on it...


Since he died in Syria, not much was written about him. It was one Muhammad bin Sirin who mentioned the story that some youths were present when he died. They heard a voice saying we killed him with our arrows.

i have read in Majaalis Al-Mo'mineen by Shaheed Qazi Nurullah Shustari that he was ordered to be killed by Umar by ordering Muhammad bim salma Ansaari and saad bin abi waqqas to murder him...

if he himself wanted the khilafa he could have rebelled against the Khalifa of dat time as his tribe supported him...but he remained silent.
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Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 01 November 2008 at 5:45am
><> i will quote some of his words against Imam Ali (a.s) here:

Minhaj al-Sunnah, Volume 8 page 230:
وعلي يقاتل ليطاع ويتصرف في النفوس والأموال فكيف يجعل هذا قتالا على الدين
“Ali fought to secure obedience and rule the people and money, so how can that be deemed as fighting for sake of religion?”

Answer: I am not denying what you read from your Minjhaj Sunna. It proved one thing: We should not be accusing the people of the Book of altering the contents of the Bible for we equally have altered the Sunna of the holy Prophet. I believed this to be a more serious offense in the Sight of Allah. My Minhaj Sunna by Ibn Taymiyya 3rd volume published 1989, edited by Dr. Muhammad Rashaad Saalim did not state so. Moreover S. Abul Hassan Ali Nadwi in his book Saviours of Islamic Spirit Vol. 2 never portrayed Ibn Taymiyya as such. Some Muslim writers criticized Ibn Taymiyya on issues that are trivial and irrelevant to the Sunna of the holy Prophet. Please read Saarimul masluul alaa shaatimul rasuul PP.418-437 by Ibn Taymiyya edited by Sayd Amrran Published 2003..
I have not read where Sahabas or those who came after them engaged in what we are doing today. 
Read also Adwaa al bayan fii Idaahal Qur'an bil Qur'an Vol 2 P.69 (surat Hujra).
و لكز ثبت كتاب الله لا تزال تظهر رائبه وعجائبه متجددة على مر الليالى والآيام، ففى كل حين تفهم منه اشياء لم تكن مفهو مة من قبل، ويدل لذ للك حديث ابى جحيفة الثابت فى الحيح انه لما سأل عليا رضى الله عنه هل خصهم رسول الله بشىء؟ قال له على رضى الله عنه لا والذى فلق الحبة وبرأ النسمة الا فهما يعطيه الله رجلآ فى كتاب الله وما فى هذه الصحيفة الحديث,
For further explanation of this hadith see الجهل بمسا ئل الاعتقاد وحكمه  by Abdul Razaaq bin Tahir ibn Ahmad Maash P. 270.  Since Ali bin Abi Talib said that the holy Prophet did not give them any honour above others, we better drop this idea of honouring people above others. I do not think one should engage himself in unnecessary disputes about the Book of Allah with those who are not alive today.  Why are we not doing what they did during their life time. Where is the truth and where is falsehood? Who is the Imam Kubra?Where is the Majalis Shura? Abi Jahifa was one of those young Sahabas like Hasan and Husain. He died during the reigh of Ibn Marwan in Kufa.
Friendship. 

 











Edited by Friendship - 01 November 2008 at 5:55am
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Quote asda Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2008 at 10:19am
salaams...

can u please tell me as to what is ure final views on ibn tymiyyah...as ure opinion is not clear...

Prophet (s.a.w) had explicitly mentioned the merits of Imam Ali (a.s) to be more than the others..i will give u some examples:


Sheikh Sulayman Balkhi in his Yanabiu'l-Mawadda, Chapter 55, narrates from Tirmidhi Buraida's hadith that, according to the Prophet, the most dearly loved woman was Fatima and the most dearly loved man was Ali. Muhammad Bin Yusuf Ganji Shafi'i in his Kifayatu't-Talib, Chapter 91, reports on the authority of Ummu'l-Mu'minin A'yesha that she said: "Allah did not create any one whom the Holy Prophet loved more than Ali." He adds that this is the hadith which Ibn Jarir in his Manaqib and Ibn Asakir Damishqi in his translation have narrated from Ali. Muhyi'd-Din and Imamu'l-Haramain Ahmad Bin Abdullah Shafi'i relates from Tirmidhi in Dhakha'iru'l-Uqba that people asked A'yesha which woman was loved most by the Prophet, and she replied, "Fatima." Then she was asked about the man loved most by the Prophet and she replied, "Her husband, Ali bin Abu Talib." Further, he related from the Mukhalis of Dhahabi and Hafiz Abu'l-Qasim Damishqi and he from A'yesha that she said: "I have not seen a man more loved by the Holy Prophet than Ali, nor a woman more loved than Fatima." In addition, the Sheikh relates from Hafiz Khajandi and he from Ma'azatu'l-Ghifariyya that she said: "I went to have an audience with the Prophet in A'yesha's house while Ali was outside the house. The Prophet said to A'yesha, 'This (Ali) is the dearest to me and the most honored among all men. Recognize his right and pay respectful regard to his position.'"


while there are many examples in history...i have just given a few of them....


it is very important to recognise the sahaaba because these are the people who brought to us the religion of Prophet Muhammad (a.s)....we have to see if any of them were mischivios and have to find those who were on haq....these categories have arisen due to many conflicts between them....otherwise if there were no conflicts and if the words of the Prophet (s.a.w) would have been followed, there wud have been no issues at all....so there wud be no reason to examine every single group dat existed in dose days....and our job is to see the haq...and leave out the others....

these are not unnecessary disputes at all.....we have to learn from wat happened in those days....follow the words of the Prophet (s.a.w)....and dat can only lead us to a successful ummah....but sadly, due to the works of few... the "islamic rule" is hard to see...and for a fact..today, except one state, all the others are not eve trying to become an islamic country...and dat one state is iran.....iran i belive is not a truly islamic state...as they have some faults...but they are trying....and no doubt they have made mistakes in da process....but still..if u dont try..how can one achive success....
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