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Message Icon Topic: Seal of prophet-KhatamanNabiyyeenand othe(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
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Sign*Reader
 
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bullet Posted: 01 October 2008 at 10:12pm
Originally posted by H3OO

Originally posted by Sign*Reader

H300

This is still unanswered: Run to Ahmedia community and find the answers pronto:

We have a community that you tried to get in edgewise Lots o luck;
4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

4:158 Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;
You keep avoiding the fundamentals of Quran and use Mirzais website for guidance and expect respect LOL


I have answered this in How did Jesus Died thread in Discussions - Islam for non-Muslims section

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8433&PN=6
(page 6 and 7)

and its a lengthy explanation (2 posts) and i hope u with patience read fully all the posts.
and hope ur concerns are answered.

Those are not the views of the ahmedis, as i still have to study their explanation but i thought i had a valid answer to it so i gave my views based on quran (versus u stated), events from islamic history related to prophet[sa] and common sense/logic.
You wrote at the other thread>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I was studying a very interesting argument of a  Ahmedi khalifa Hazrat Mirza Bashir Ahmad in which he says that this world is Governed by two laws
Bashir Ahmad in which he says that this world is Governed by two laws: Law Of Shariah and Law of Nature.
The law of shariah  pertains to the moral and spiritual condition of man and is brought to the world by Prophets and Messengers.
Duh.what  a discovery DOES HE NEED some prize for making this statement!
ShARIAH IS THE CANNONICAL LAW
.....................

Law of Nature  is responsible for the working of the universe and follows the system of cause and effect and the properties of different objects, whose effects we observe all around us.

Ditto----Duh!!!!!!!!!!!
Thats what his mastery is that he carries out his plan in such a way that neither the law of nature is interfered and neither it appeals illogical to us otherwise we're objecting his power , ability that God had to break his own rule to carry a particular task and so limiting his power.

The main point to explain this is to just show how  powerful is and everything is so easy for him that he can easily get his work/plan carried out without interfering in any law or using his super powers.

How do you account for the parting of the red sea to let Israelite escape the Pharaoh's lot? How about causing the death of the Egyptian kids and all the plagues,the coming of manna from heavens!
Would you say these events were according to the laws of nature? would he deny them?

You are again shooting yourself in the foot and proving beyond the any shadow of doubt that you are under the spell of Ahmediaism and attempting to obfuscate the clear revelations!
Didn't think you would literally run to your Ahmedi handlers!
Kalipha Bashir do you believe that?

You are flailing needlessly with red herrings and lame justification about Almedi POVs and continually pitch for it!
The death of Jesus is the basis of Xtianiy and Quraanic POV is just the opposite! case closed!
It is the ahmedis only who spend their waking hours to sell the Jesus's death one way or the other when Allah says categorically and  emphatically He took him--- for his later days plan!
He was hounded by the Temple's money changers and the Israelites , whose descendants are  back at the Wall Street and hounding the Christians world or rather the whole world on a much larger scale!


Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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bullet Posted: 01 October 2008 at 10:50pm
Sigh reader have u ever tried to use ur own logic instead of following what u have heard since ur childhood

where it is metioned in quran that maana was thrown from the the skies. use ur logic.

...We sent down for them Manna and Salwa and We said, 'Eat of the good things We have provided for you.' And they wronged US not, but it was themselves that they wronged.7:161

Many take this ''sent down''  as falling from the skies.
How can one say that we sent down has to mean thrown from the skies.
From Quran;
'Then Allah sent down His peace upon His messenger.'21
And We sent down iron, wherein is material for violent warfare and many benefits for mankind and that Allah may distinguish those who help Him and His Messengers without having seen Him. Surely, Allah is Powerful, Mighty.'26
'We have indeed sent down raiment to you to cover your shame, and to be an elegant dress;...24
And He has sent down eight head of cattle in pairs.'23

What does the sent down means in above verses, thrown from sky, if not, then how can sent down in case of manna mean this.

did he peace fell from the skies?
Animals, garments, green fields, salwa, iron, and other things grow on the soil or come from under it. They do not descend or drop down from Heaven.
So It could very well mean [that also fits to our logic and within the rules] that they might have reached some place where they found streams of water, vegetables already grown there and plants/trees full of fruits and it indeed was a help of God and not
that these things fell on their heads from the sky


There is answer for everything but u need to find it by using ur intellect and everything will appeal to ur logic and within the rules of this world bcz God is powerful and he knows how to. and remember in islam everything is logical bcz its the creation of God and he knows how to be rational, logical.



Edited by H3OO - 02 October 2008 at 12:39am
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bullet Posted: 01 October 2008 at 11:00pm
and then as the above logic thing becomes clearer now, u didnt answer my question as to how Allah saved prophet[sa] from with in the rules of this world with out raising him and then my explanation of verse is pretty clear specially in the light of all above.
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bullet Posted: 01 October 2008 at 11:04pm
'Allah has indeed down to you a Reminder, a Messenger, who recites unto you the clear Signs of Allah, that he may bring those who believe and do good deeds out of every kind of darkness into light'29

Does that mean that prophet[sa] came down from the skies
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bullet Posted: 02 October 2008 at 12:38am
Originally posted by H3OO

Sigh reader have u ever tried to use ur own logic instead of following what u have heard since ur childhood and tried to understand quran urself by using the brain that God gave u

where it is metioned in quran that maana was thrown from the the skies. use ur logic.

...We sent down for them Manna and Salwa and We said, 'Eat of the good things We have provided for you.' And they wronged US not, but it was themselves that they wronged.7:161

How can one say that we sent down has to mean thrown from the skies.
From Quran;
'Then Allah sent down His peace upon His messenger.'21
And We sent down iron, wherein is material for violent warfare and many benefits for mankind and that Allah may distinguish those who help Him and His Messengers without having seen Him. Surely, Allah is Powerful, Mighty.'26
'We have indeed sent down raiment to you to cover your shame, and to be an elegant dress;...24
And He has sent down eight head of cattle in pairs.'23

What does the sent down means in above verses, thrown from sky, if not, then how can sent down in case of manna mean this.

did he throw peace from the skies?
Animals, garments, green fields, salwa, iron, and other things grow on the soil or come from under it. They do not descend or drop down from Heaven.
whatever comes from under the earth or grows on the earth, it is a gift of God and it is him who grows them or has given them growing ability or given us the ability to grow them.
so it automatically means sent down by God. use ur logic.

There is answer for everything but u need to find it by using ur intellect and everything will appeal to ur logic and within the rules of this world bcz God is powerful and he knows how to.

.

That is what Shaitan was good at too much logic and so He also got throw down and out from Heaven! 
When Allah says he speaks the truth who died left you in charge to question how he does things in his realm? If he stated that happened in the beginning so it must be absolutely true. The manna and roasted quails couldn't be growing over night on ground! Also apply your logic on this!
Allah gave all the heavenly advantages to Israelites but they were also stuck in the Satanic logic and their slavery oriented  nafs! They couldn't be grateful so they went on the path of the satan and looking for more  people who will join them by challenging Allah with their logic!
Allah had no problem stating that he was letting the manna and quailes grow overnight and be ready to eat if that was the case but what He does he doesn't need some science major to do the Q & A first!
Do you also doubt that Allah provided Murrium with heavenly sustinance during her meditations?

Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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bullet Posted: 02 October 2008 at 12:41am
Originally posted by H3OO

and then as the above logic thing becomes clearer now, u didnt answer my question as to how Allah saved prophet[sa] from with in the rules of this world with out raising him and then my explanation of verse is pretty clear specially in the light of all above.

Rephrase your question?


Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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bullet Posted: 02 October 2008 at 12:42am
SR plz read my post that u quoted, again as i have made some alterations to make it more clear
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bullet Posted: 02 October 2008 at 12:45am
Originally posted by H3OO

'Allah has indeed down to you a Reminder, a Messenger, who recites unto you the clear Signs of Allah, that he may bring those who believe and do good deeds out of every kind of darkness into light'29

Does that mean that prophet[sa] came down from the skies

WHat Surah you are quoting from to look before reply?
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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