Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

General Discussion
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : General : General Discussion
Message Icon Topic: Seal of prophet-KhatamanNabiyyeenand othe(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 23 Next >>
Author Message
Sign*Reader
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 November 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3352
bullet Posted: 28 September 2008 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by H3OO

Originally posted by seekshidayath

2. Did u read anywhere in Qur'an and Sunnah, that Isa AS, visited India, that too Kashmir. { It would be a uniting factor for us - indo-pak} Smile
3. They say that Isa AS, never ascended to heavens, Then where he is. Nauzbillah, in Kashmir, or around the Kabah of Qadiyanis, which i heard is in Punjab.

 
 

Some time back i saw this BBC Four documentary ''did Jesus Die on a cross''. which was made by interviewing several  historians, theologians and historical researchers.

What they show is that there are some signs/possiblity that Jesus might have migrated to  the mountains of Kashmir and also showed his possible tomb there which many people over there do believe  is that of a man from Israel accord to their ancestors and accord to what is stated  in the history of Kashmir.
Now its not a research of ahmedis but is of Christian researchers and theologians.

I dont know whether over here anyone has watched it, so i'll advice to watch it, it definitely gives a very good insight regarding this matter.
u can Google it or im sure u can find it on YOUtube, do watch it, plz.


and im not saying that what they are saying has to be true but these are carried out by knowledgeable historians, theologians and we must not ignore it. and They've got no advantage in proving that he migrated to Kashmir. They are just doing their research as they do in every other field and what they are saying is totally based on their study, research.

so this does makes me think that now that many others after research are starting to point out that there are signs of his migration to Kashmir,  ahmedis claim might carry some weight in it.

There are many other researchers/scholars/historians/theologians who have also written books on jesus in India/Kashmir as;

Christ Of Kashmiris by Anand Krishna who is a spiritual master from Indonesia
Journey into Kashmir and Tibet by Swami Abhedananda
Jesus lived in India by Holger Kersten
Where did Jesus die? by J.D. Shams
The way of the Essenes: Christ' s hidden life remembered by Anne and Daniel Meurois-Givaudan
The Jesus mystery by Janet Bock
The unknown life of Jesus Christ by Nicolas Notovitch



So  when more and more people outside ahmedis are starting to point out this possibility, then there must be something in it. and so we shouldnt rule it out.

There is also a book By the ahmedis Prophet "Jesus in india". That is an important one to read as it will give more detail as to what there exact views are.


Wow! man you are really a stubborn troll in the Month of Ramadan!
I can see why you are teeing the people of in general by your typical troll behavior and particularly bro Sasha!
Now the rubbish that clearly is against a clear Quranic sign:4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
4:158 Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;- but you have no compunction for doing that but you can plead for Qadiani POV be accepted without challenge!
Can't you see this sign is addressing the people likes of you who are following the conjectures?
Why should a believer follow the BBC or any /all the doubters in the first place!
And you have conveniently tried to cherry pick my points in your previous responses! And that is OK; think through about the above quoted revelations cuz this is mirror you can't avoid no matter how much brain washing you have gone through by your handlers!
By bringing this point you dug yourself a hole and more you dig, deeper you will go down! the common sense demands!
So stop digging! and also ask for Allah's forgiveness for pleading the Qardiani POV in this month of sanctity!


Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
IP IP Logged
Sign*Reader
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 November 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3352
bullet Posted: 28 September 2008 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by H3OO

The Prophet of Ahmadiiya community stated with regrads to Holy prophet (pbuh)

The person who was above all, and was a perfect man, and a perfect prophet, and who came with the fullness of blessings, through whom, on account of his spiritual advent and the spiritual resurrection that he brought about, the first judgment manifested itself and a whole universe that was dead was revived, that blessed prophet Khatamul Anbiya, Leader of the elect, Katamul Mursileen, Pride of the Prophets was Muhammad Mustafa, peace and the blessings of Allah by upon him. (Itmamul Hujjah, p.28)

He claimed:

Allah is Glorious, Allah is Glorious; what a high station was that of the Khatamul Anbiya, the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. Glory be to Allah, what high degree of light was his. (Braheen Ahmadiyya, p.246)

My belief that I hold in this life and with which, by the grace of Allah, I shall pass on from this world is that our lord and master, Muhammad Mustafa, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, was Khataman Nabiyyeen and the best of Messengers. (Izala Auham, part I, p.137)

He declared:

I believe in the Khatam-i-Nabuwat of the Khatamul Anbjya, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, and consider one who denies the Khatam-i-Nabuwat as faithless and outside the pale of Islam. (Taqreer Wajabul llan, 1891)

He has stated:

My belief is that our Holy Prophet is better and more exalted than all the Messengers and is Khataman Nabiyyeen. (Ayenah Kamalat Islam, p.327)

He has declared:

I believe that our Holy Prophet, Hazrat Muhammad Mustafa, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, is more exalted than all the Messengers and is the Khatamul Anbiya. (Hamamatul Bushra, p.8)

He has affirmed:

I believe truly and perfectly in the verse which says: 'But he was the Messenger of Allah and Khataman Nabiyyeen'. (Ek Ghati Ka Izala)

He has stated:

I call Allah, the Glorious, to witness that I am not a disbeliever. My doctrine is that there is no one worthy of worship save Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah . I believe concerning him that he was the Messenger of Allah and the Khataman Nabiyyeen. I affirm the truth of this statement with as many oaths as are the Holy names of Allah and as are the letters of the Holy Quran and as is the number of the excellencies of the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. No belief of mine is contrary to the commands of Allah and His Messenger. He who imagines anything contrary to this labors under a mis-conception. (Karamatus Sadiqeen, p.25)


so its clear they do consider Prophet (pbuh) 

Khatamul Anbiya but just the difference of interpretation.




You are spamming in violation of the guidelines of the forum indicated how lawful is your thinking!
You have copied  and pasted from the official website of the Ahmedia community giving a false impression of your own scholarship!

How can you make a case being a Qadiani Spammer!

You comments and future threads need to be watched by all Muslim members of this forum!
This is unconscionable and you owe an apology for getting the Ahmedia propaganda site in here edgewise without mentioning its reference! 
Shame on you amigo/freund/yar for being so deceptive!
Is that how your parents and teachers taught you to plagiarize!


Edited by Sign*Reader - 28 September 2008 at 5:10pm
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
IP IP Logged
Mansoor_ali
Male  Islam
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 September 2008
Location: Pakistan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 584
bullet Posted: 28 September 2008 at 5:51pm

 

Mirza Mahmud Ahmad believed, at one time, that Prophet Muhammad was the Last Prophet


The Qadiani Khalifa Mirza Bashir-ud-Din Mahmud Ahmad (their leader from 1914 to 1965), who originated the belief of the Qadiani Movement that prophets can come after the Holy Prophet Muhammad, himself at one time wrote that no prophet can come after the Holy Prophet Muhammad because he was the Khatam an-nabiyyin.

In 1910, two years after the death of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, Mirza Mahmud Ahmad wrote an article entitled Najaat (Salvation) which was published in the monthly Tashhiz-ul-azhan, the magazine of which he himself was the proprietor and editor. Shown below is the front cover of that issue (April 1910, vol. v, no. 4) in which this article appeared:

tashhiz
(We have highlighted the name of the editor, Mirza Bashir-ud-Din Mahmud Ahmad, and the title of the article in question.)

In this article, he explains the meaning of the Khatam an-nabiyyin verse of the Holy Quran as follows:

Translation of relevant portion: Image from original Urdu book of the full pages 151 and 152:
"In this verse God has said that the Holy Prophet Muhammad is the Khatam an-nabiyyin, and none shall come after him who may be raised to the status of prophethood, and who may abrogate his teachings and establish a new law. Nay, however many saints (auliya) there are, and righteous and pious persons, they will get all that they get through service to him. Thus God has said that the Holy Prophet's prophethood was meant not only for his times, but that in future too no prophet would come. ...

"Another point must be remembered here, namely, that in this verse God says: 'God is ever Knower of all things'. This does not appear to have an obvious connection here because it was not necessary to say, regarding the things God has explained, that He is the Knower of everything. The fact is that the Holy Prophet's being the Khatam an-nabiyyin contains a prophecy.

tashhiz
This is that before the Holy Prophet Muhammad there arose hundreds of prophets in the world that we know about and who had great success. In fact, there does not appear to be any century in which, at one place or another, no claimant to prophethood could be found. So Krishna, Ramachandra, Buddha, Confucius, Zoroaster, Moses and Jesus are those whose followers still exist in the world, and are forcefully doing their work, each group putting forward the claim of its truth. But thirteen hundred years have passed since the Holy Prophet's claim, and no one who claimed prophethood has ever attained success. After all, prior to his time people used to claim prophethood, and many of them were successful, whom we believe to be true. But why has this arrangement stopped with his advent? Why is no one successful now? Obviously because of the prophecy that he is the Khatam an-nabiyyin. Now we ask the opponents of Islam, what greater sign can there be than the fact that, after the Holy Prophet, no person who claimed prophethood was successful. It is this which is referred to in the words: 'God is ever Knower of all things'. That is to say, We have made him Khatam an-nabiyyin and We know that no prophet would come after him, and any liar making such a claim would be destroyed. This, therefore, is a historical prophecy which no one can possibly refute." tashhiz

 

It is clearly stated in this article that:

  • "... none shall come after him [Prophet Muhammad] who may be raised to the status of prophethood"

  • Those who come after him among the Muslims are the auliya or saints.

  • "the Holy Prophet's prophethood was meant not only for his times, but that in future too no prophet would come"

  • "... what greater sign can there be than the fact that, after the Holy Prophet, no person who claimed prophethood was successful ..."

  • God says in the Quran that "We know that no prophet would come after him, and any liar making such a claim would be destroyed".
This proves conclusively that the Qadiani belief that prophets can come after the Holy Prophet Muhammad and that Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was a prophet, was developed sometime after 1910, while Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad had died in May 1908. Therefore Hazrat Mirza could never have taught these beliefs, and indeed what he taught was exactly what Mirza Mahmud Ahmad has written in the above article.
Source:http://www.muslim.org/qadis/mahmud-f.htm


IP IP Logged
Whisper
Male Other
Senior Member
Senior  Member


Joined: 25 July 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4752
bullet Posted: 28 September 2008 at 6:35pm
If i had the proofs, i wouldve been an ahmedi today. so u want the proofs, only a knowledgeable ahmedi can give them or study their books specially their khalifas, im sure it will help. My purpose was totally different here that is not to convince that there prophet is a true one as im still studying but to realize u all that they are peaceful followers of islam and not a threat to islam as one can see from their interpretation and so we should treat them with respect.
 
I promise you, I love your absolutely street act juggling! You are trying to tell us that they are a part of Islam - with own readymade prophet - who was offered a Knighthood by His Majesty - which is done for Services rendered to the Crown?
 
Mian jee, it's very simple = when you list someone as a prophet - you are bound to provide us the auntentecity of that Prophet. Do you understand? Or I have to explain that in Punjaubi?  


Edited by Whisper - 28 September 2008 at 6:40pm
Sasha Khanzadeh
IP IP Logged
Whisper
Male Other
Senior Member
Senior  Member


Joined: 25 July 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4752
bullet Posted: 28 September 2008 at 6:43pm
How can you make a case being a Qadiani Spammer!

Paa jee, I have not yet seen such a shameless street juggler, at least, not here at IC. When you list someone as a Nabi then th eonus lies on you to provide the proof of that man's nabi hood. Simple.
 
No response.
 
In 1907, I can't bet on the year, but a man of knowledge who also happend to be my dada, challenged Mirza for a munazara about his various claims including his Nabi hood. Mirza didn't show up thrice.
 
Not just that, he hired a mushtanda (goon) to chop my grandfather's head off. Saday school de master nay onu pharr laya. (a teacher of our school caught hold of him) and they broke both his legs.
 
Hafeez Jallundhary narrated these incidents to me when I was at the GC. He also showed me a collection of periodicals, newspapers of the day that had covered these incidents.
 
These incidents establish the fact that Mirza knew that he was playing an open fraud. Suppose, if he genuinely thought that he had struck Nabi hood, he would have come out of sheer innocence, to establish his claims.


Edited by Whisper - 28 September 2008 at 7:09pm
Sasha Khanzadeh
IP IP Logged
Whisper
Male Other
Senior Member
Senior  Member


Joined: 25 July 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4752
bullet Posted: 28 September 2008 at 7:35pm
Paa Jee
I have also started to feel real bad for this chap. He has to act as just shameless and with just the line! Ask him that the Ahmadis consider and also treat all non-Ahmadis as un-Muslim, he just goes mumb.
 
Many other things in his poor behaviour. I feel, he is from that real Ahmadi producing area - the Gujranwala - Sialkot - Lailpur (Faisalabad doesn't really sound as cute!) Sangla Hill - Sheikhupura belt. he seems to have been caught up in that recent surge of sentiment against deviants of Islam. In face of open Anglo-American aggression, people seem to resent the type of docility the likes of Mirza taught and spread.
 
Plus, I fail to understand one thing. Why have I never run into a Baluchi, Pathan or UPite Ahmadi. What are the chances of meeting a Bangla Deshi Mirzai? I have met no more than a Mirzai and a half in Sindh. The half had just signed up because he desperately wanted to marry a woman with a triangle burqa. I didn't ask the other his reasons, but at least he showed me the Nawab Shah bank our President Zardari had "done" on his motorbike!
 
Please can you tell me why is it just primarily a Punjaubi disorder?


Edited by Whisper - 28 September 2008 at 7:52pm
Sasha Khanzadeh
IP IP Logged
minuteman
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member


Joined: 25 March 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1642
bullet Posted: 28 September 2008 at 10:55pm
 
 
From Whisper:
And Minuteman
Stop harrassing us with all your scholarly bull. Just provide us the proof of your man's prophet hood. Khalaas! Understand? or you wish me to make you understand Punjaubi style?
 
  Sorry whisper for pulling me into this. I have no intention of any proof and I feel it is silly to ask any one for the proof of his prophethood. Even if I was a prophet, nobody need ask me for the proof of prophethood. The prophets do not carry proofs in their pocket. I feel it is a silly demand and any sensible person should never make such a demand on the prophets.
 
 Abu Jehl had seen the prophet s.a.w.s. Did he miss anything. He saw everything. But he did not believe. He was called Abu Hikmah (The father of wisdom). He missed  all the proofs of the prophthood of Muhammad.
 
 
If any one is bad some one must suffer
IP IP Logged
seekshidayath
Female Islam
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 March 2006
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3346
bullet Posted: 28 September 2008 at 11:59pm

As'Salamu Alaikum ,

When i saw "9 pages" of discussion - i was awstruck! Last time, when i was here we were in 3rd. After going thru the left over pages, one thing mused me a lot - posts of  minuteman. Totally confused !! Khayr, minuteman, that hadith was quoted from there books. Now, go thru it again, u shall understand .

H300, you are here since very few months.  and am sure must not have gone thru all posts of Bro. Sasha {Whisper}. So you doubt him. Let me tell you, he is one of the esteemed personalities. He has not just seen the world, around, but also experienced it. Anyways, i cannot force you or command you to respect him, but yes, we do trust his talk of grand pa.

When i read you at other section, last months, i was happy with the thought that we have a good member. Your answers were nearly perfect. But i don't understand why are you defending these ahmadis ? Either, you are still in its first page or must not have confronted any Qadiyani. You must be still be studying Qadiyanism . Right now, for us, you are defender of Qadiyanism here.

Coming to your question of first page, let me answer you, they do hold respect for our Prophet , atleast in those lines. And they believe, that Prophet {saws} was Khataman nabi, but as far as i know you, you atleast have knowledge that apart from Qur'an we have many hadiths, which state that Prophet was also last messenger of Allah swt. Do you think all our great  scholars, who interpreted that verse, that Muhammad {SAWS}, was last Prophet as well as messenger{Khataman nabiyeen}, are wrong and on the other side only, Mirza Ghulam has exactly interpreted that verse ?  I wish you go thru those hadiths, which clearly state that Prophet {saws} was last messenger as well.

Now, again, why did you limit to only  one  page of there book ? Did you not read , how they demean our other Prophet of Allah swt, Isa AS ? As a muslim we are to hold respect for all prophets . Then why did he write such vulgar about Isa AS ? I challenge you, if we leave a qadiyani, in the midst of christians, they shall leave him out only when gets red / black. Shud we not hate those people, who hold wrong and so bad beliefs of Isa AS ?

You answered just second and third of my questions. But not the first and  fourth. As a muslim, do you believe that Isa AS died ? Does Qur'an say so ? Did you not read in the hadiths about coming of Isa AS. He shall abide the shariah of Prophet Muhammad. While, those people believe that the coming of Isa AS ? What made you to paste those links, which perhaps hold up up views that ,Isa AS, died in India , while you as a muslim must be holding the belief that he was raised in heavens ? Do all these not depict and rise doubts that you are a qadiyani ? Why is your support to them so immense ?

You said, i referred to anti-ahmedi site, Well, i had to, since all there books i have are in urdu. But again, i challenge none of those verses quoted from there books are wrong.

Don't you know, that they hold the belief that Qur'an is incomplete revelation ?

 
They say that Mirza is the second incarnation of Prophet Muhammad {Sallal lahu alayhi wasallam} and you want us to love such followers of imposter ? Shud we state such people as muslims ?


These Qadiyanis  reject authentic Hadith based on Mirza's alleged revelations and teaches his personal interpretation of the Holy Quran. You must be knowing that he  has forged several unauthentic translations of the Holy Quran to try to confuse and mislead uninformed individuals.. ANd i guess you are either that person, or the one who is highly influenced by them.

If they belong to muslim community, then why do they forbid marriages to the followers of  Muhammad {Pbuh}. Infact, when they hold respect for our Prophet {Pbuh}, they shud, be ready for such marriages . Is this an act of Muslim ?  A reader may not suppress his laugh, when reads that they believe, all the praises made by Allah swt for the Prophet Muhammad, were actually intended for this Mirza !! And u say we shud n't hate such liars, while our blood  boils !

If they are muslims, why did they set up there own Makkah and Medinah as place of there hajj ?
 
I wish instead of you suggesting me to go thru there books, you go thru them and yes, don't limit them to one page or get exaggerated by there lines for our Prophet. They are infact, rejectors of sayings of Prophet.

These people are like slow poisons. In the name of Islam,  they are just ruining the aakhirah of ignorant people, convincing them thru money, and other incentives. As, i said, in the southern parts of India, they were just slow posions. Though it were late while realising the threat, but alhamdullilah, we were not too late. We had to work very hard, to bring back our innocent muslim brothers, and made them declare shahadahs, made public aware and alert of such people, despite there plans to foil our programmes. Alhamdullilah, Allah swt was sufficient for us..

 You want us not to hate such people who create fitnahs !

You call our efforts to expose the beliefs of imposter as devilish ?

My dear brother, its not just me who is to seek hidayah. It is all of us who are in need of it. There is only one path that is righteous. Pray Allah swt that He bestows us hidayah to be over that righteous path, which may lead us to heaven.

Regards.



Edited by seekshidayath - 29 September 2008 at 12:24am
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 23 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com