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Islam for non-Muslims
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islam for non-Muslims
Message Icon Topic: Abrogation? Post Reply Post New Topic
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minuteman
 
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Quote minuteman Replybullet Posted: 22 September 2008 at 3:08pm
 
 The question about the abrogation of verses and christian friends are interested in looking for the abrogated verses in the Quran. The Muslims are too simplistic in providing a proof (or some kind of admission) that there are some abrogated verses in the Quran. That is not true.
 
 The verse which is used to go for abrogation does not mention the abrogation of verses in Quran or bible etc. It is a genearl statement telling that Allah, the sender of the verses is competent to abrogate or replace verses ( signs, commands). That is all. It is not necessary to go looking for the abrogated verses in the Quran or bible. See the Verse:
 
 We ( Allah) do not abrogate any verse nor make it to be forgotten, We bring a better than that  or the like (equal) thereof.
 
 That is a good general statement and is very true.
If any one is bad some one must suffer
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FahadKhan
 
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Quote FahadKhan Replybullet Posted: 14 April 2009 at 10:54am
Salaam alaikum all.

Originally posted by rami

However, in the Quran, the abrogating verses mark the end of the validity of the abrogated verses because their heed and effect was of a temporary or limited nature. In time the new law appears and announces the end of the validity of the earlier law. Considering that Quran was revealed over a period of twenty-three years in ever-changing circumstances, it is not difficult to imagine the necessity of such laws.


Circumstances always keep on changing. Not only in those 23 years. Its been more than 1400 years now, do we need a new Quran for new circumstances? No. Allah's words are valid in all circumstances and do not need abrogation.
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FahadKhan
 
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Quote FahadKhan Replybullet Posted: 14 April 2009 at 10:59am
Originally posted by minuteman


  Please remember there is no Nasikh or mansookh in the Quran. There is no verse abrogated or abrogating verse. If there is any then it may please (both) be presented here on the forum.



(emphasis added)

I second that.
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rememberallah
 
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Quote rememberallah Replybullet Posted: 02 September 2012 at 10:19am
agreeing with a lot of people who have posted before me in this topic....i would add this article
<>

ABBROGATION ABBROGATED.

“O Assembly of jinn’s and men, penetrate ye into the regions of the heavens and the earth, you will not be able to penetrate but without power, Then which of the verses of your Lord will you deny?” –  {sura Rehman chapter 55}

When we have penetrated heavens and earth we can’t deny any signs of God and verses of Quran are also signs of God.

However in the verse of abrogation, the principle drawn out is that some verses have been cancelled by others, i.e. we can deny it’s teaching after the other verse has come.

However the verse says, “Then which of the verses of your Lord will you deny?” It means that the verse of abrogation is not about Quranic verses but the other non Quranic ayats of God and the other group of Ulema who hold this view are correct in their judgment.

But today we have found ways to deny the verses of our Lord. Well not anymore, not anymore.

(16:101)- “When we replace a message with another and God knows best what He reveals, they say you have made it up. Yet most of them do not know”

Read the above verse and think carefully.

I ask, who was there to question Prophet that you have made it up yourself?

 1- it couldn’t be the Sahabas for they believed him to be Prophet, they would accept whatever prophet would had said.

2- Of course it couldn’t also be non-Muslims, as they didn’t believe in Quran so it didn’t matter to them that what was earlier and what get abrogated. “they” would never say such a thing on one verse being replaced by another, they would never say this on verses being replaced that you have made it, for they didn’t say it on replacement that you have made it up yourself, but they said of the whole Quran that you have made it up!!!

So who are these” they say”???

No permutation combination fits but one- if we take “they” to be Jews and Christians for Torah and Gospel were message of God; for Torah and Gospel were replaced by God.

Thus we understand when God says;

{2:106 )- “When we cancel a message or cause it to be forgotten( He means Torah, Gospel or Sahufe Ibrahim and Nuh) We replace it with one better or similar”.

He means replace Torah and Gospel and cause to be forgotten Sohufe Ibrahim. He replaces it with one better or similar - that is Quran!

The principle of Abrogation when taken to be one Quranic verse cancelling other while the other still being there as many believe gives rise to contradiction after contradiction in Quran, but Quran claims “there is no contradiction in Quran”

Thus the Group of Scholars who hold that the Abrogation refer to God’s previous Ayats/ Messages/ Verses that is, Torah, Gospel etc being replaced are correct and those who take it to be referring to verses of Quran replacing each other are those who have corrupted their nature which was of God’s spirit, they have hamstrung the she camel of God, that is - “their nature” and are doomed for failure.

 For Example, the verse;

(3:85)- “If anyone seeks a religion other than Islam it will not be accepted”

This verse is seen as abrogating;

(2:62)- “The believer Jews, Christians and Sabeans who believe in God the last day and do good deeds they shall be rewarded”

How foolish are they who see (3:85) as a newer verse than (2:62) and thus an abrogating verse.

The verse (3:85) is the oldest verse of God!!! It is not a verse that came after {2:62}, it dates back to even before Adam (PBUH) and thus of course even before Jews and Christians. Was not Abraham (PBUH) on Islam and doesn’t God say “he was not a Jew nor yet a Christian”. Thus the very logic is wrong and forced in the cases pointed out about one Quranic verse cancelling another in a harmonious, no contradictory book. Now men of understanding will say, “by the example you gave, do you mean that Jews and Christians will be rewarded?” I counter ask, “do you say Muslims will be rewarded?”, you will say “yes”, I will say that “there are so many hadiths that point out that Muslims will go astray, go in hell etc”, then you will say “no actually believing Muslims will go”, I say that’s what the verse say, “believing” Jews, Christians and Sabeans and not “unbelieving Jews, Christians and Sabeans. No Unbelievers whether a Jew or Muslim will be rewarded.

So abrogation as referred to in the Quran refers to the old ayats of Allah ie. Torah, Zabur, Injil and Safuhe Ibrahim being replaced by Quran, not one Quranic verse replacing another.  Otherwise answer who are “they say” of {16:101}???

 

may Allah guide us
The whole world is like Hazrat Umar but no one is like his sister and brother in law.
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