IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Behind The Bible Fraud

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mohamed

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Topic: Behind The Bible Fraud
Posted: 25 June 2005 at 4:34pm

Here is an article by Robert Adams that examines how the Bible has been maliciously altered and interpolated thru the centuries. In the process the original teachings of the truly great prophet was lost for ever.

http://rense.com/general66/hide.htm

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Jazz

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Posted: 14 July 2005 at 3:32am

Hi Mohamed,

Which Bible are you refering to?

Both the Old Testament and the Gospels?

Who can truly say which books have or have not been altered?

Here is an extract from Gospels attributed to Jesus, do you think this has been altered?

Do you think it is sound advice and good guidance?

Quote:

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing. But inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
By their fruit you will recognize them.
Do people pick grapes from thorn-bushes, or figs from thistles?"

Edited by Mishmish

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DavidC

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Posted: 14 July 2005 at 4:21am

We Christians have never held that the bible is as direct a communication as
you Muslims hold the Qu'ran. Rather we believe that the multiple
translations help expand the meaning and the number of people who can
benefit from it.

I believe the Prophet Muhummad held the Torah, Injeel and Psalms to be
important spiritual works. These were collected into the Bible about 300
years before the birth of Muhummad. As Muhummad was not literate, this
information must have come directly from Gabriel.

Of course Muslims do not hold the bible as scripture, but rejecting the bible
adds *nothing* to the Qu'ran. Why not treat it as Muhummad did - as a
valuable document but not a perfect life guide as is your wonderful Qu'ran?

David C.

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AhmadJoyia

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Posted: 14 July 2005 at 12:08pm

My dear bro DavidC, will all the due respect to your beliefs, what do you think about St. Paul's claim when you say "We Christians have never held that the bible is as direct a communication as you Muslims hold the Qu'ran" Didn't he claim a direct communication with divine Jesus as opposed to earthly Jesus?

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AhmadJoyia

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Posted: 14 July 2005 at 12:12pm

Originally posted by Jazz

Hi Mohamed,

Which Bible are you refering to?

Both the Old Testament and the Gospels?

Who can truly say which books have or have not been altered?

Here is an extract from Gospels attributed to Jesus, do you think this has been altered?

Do you think it is sound advice and good guidance?

Quote:

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing. But inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
By their fruit you will recognize them.
Do people pick grapes from thorn-bushes, or figs from thistles?"

Excellant quote from Bible, my bro Jazz, this is really excellant. Now compare for yourself as what Jesus taught in his life time (one may recall his famous sermon of the Mount) and what St. Paul taught later on? You shall find the truth. Inshallah.

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DavidC

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Posted: 14 July 2005 at 1:40pm

Hi Ahmad!

I am not familiar with your citation, but here is an explanation from the
Catholic Church which is more generalizable to all Christianity than my
personal notions:

True or False: The Bible is to be understood literally.

False. Para. 110: "In order to discover the sacred authors' intention, the
reader must take into account the conditions of their time and culture,
the literary genres in use at that time, and the modes of feeling,
speaking, and narrating then current. ‘For the fact is that truth is
differently presented and expressed in the various types of historical
writing, in prophetical and poetical texts, and in other forms of literary
expression (DV 12§2)."

Note that in reading the bible we Christians are to attempt to discover the
author's intentions, hence differences in translations and exegesis. The
Qu'ran does not demand this additional level of interpretation.

David C.

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AhmadJoyia

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Posted: 14 July 2005 at 1:57pm

Hi bro DavidC,

I am specifically refering to St. Paul's claim of apostleship through direct communication with divine Jesus in his vision and hence the vast majority of his writtings in NT. Is this not opposite to what you say ""We Christians have never held that the bible is as direct a communication as you Muslims hold the Qu'ran". I hope I have made myself clear!

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DavidC

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Posted: 14 July 2005 at 4:44pm

Chapter and verse, Ahmad. I'm not sure what you are referring to.

David C.

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Author	Message
mohamed Starter Joined: 26 May 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 3	Topic: Behind The Bible Fraud Posted: 25 June 2005 at 4:34pm
	Here is an article by Robert Adams that examines how the Bible has been maliciously altered and interpolated thru the centuries. In the process the original teachings of the truly great prophet was lost for ever. http://rense.com/general66/hide.htm
	IP Logged

Jazz Senior Member Joined: 11 July 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 110	Posted: 14 July 2005 at 3:32am
	Hi Mohamed, Which Bible are you refering to? Both the Old Testament and the Gospels? Who can truly say which books have or have not been altered? Here is an extract from Gospels attributed to Jesus, do you think this has been altered? Do you think it is sound advice and good guidance? Quote: "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing. But inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thorn-bushes, or figs from thistles?" * Edited by Mishmish
	IP Logged

DavidC Senior Member Joined: 20 September 2001 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2211	Posted: 14 July 2005 at 4:21am
	We Christians have never held that the bible is as direct a communication as you Muslims hold the Qu'ran. Rather we believe that the multiple translations help expand the meaning and the number of people who can benefit from it. I believe the Prophet Muhummad held the Torah, Injeel and Psalms to be important spiritual works. These were collected into the Bible about 300 years before the birth of Muhummad. As Muhummad was not literate, this information must have come directly from Gabriel. Of course Muslims do not hold the bible as scripture, but rejecting the bible adds nothing to the Qu'ran. Why not treat it as Muhummad did - as a valuable document but not a perfect life guide as is your wonderful Qu'ran?
	David C.
	IP Logged

AhmadJoyia Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2005 Location: Pakistan Online Status: Offline Posts: 1161	Posted: 14 July 2005 at 12:08pm
	My dear bro DavidC, will all the due respect to your beliefs, what do you think about St. Paul's claim when you say "We Christians have never held that the bible is as direct a communication as you Muslims hold the Qu'ran" Didn't he claim a direct communication with divine Jesus as opposed to earthly Jesus?
	IP Logged

AhmadJoyia Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2005 Location: Pakistan Online Status: Offline Posts: 1161	Posted: 14 July 2005 at 12:12pm
	*Originally posted by Jazz* Hi Mohamed, Which Bible are you refering to? Both the Old Testament and the Gospels? Who can truly say which books have or have not been altered? Here is an extract from Gospels attributed to Jesus, do you think this has been altered? Do you think it is sound advice and good guidance? Quote: "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing. But inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thorn-bushes, or figs from thistles?" Excellant quote from Bible, my bro Jazz, this is really excellant. Now compare for yourself as what Jesus taught in his life time (one may recall his famous sermon of the Mount) and what St. Paul taught later on? You shall find the truth. Inshallah.
	IP Logged

DavidC Senior Member Joined: 20 September 2001 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2211	Posted: 14 July 2005 at 1:40pm
	Hi Ahmad! I am not familiar with your citation, but here is an explanation from the Catholic Church which is more generalizable to all Christianity than my personal notions: True or False: The Bible is to be understood literally. False. Para. 110: "In order to discover the sacred authors' intention, the reader must take into account the conditions of their time and culture, the literary genres in use at that time, and the modes of feeling, speaking, and narrating then current. ‘For the fact is that truth is differently presented and expressed in the various types of historical writing, in prophetical and poetical texts, and in other forms of literary expression (DV 12§2)." Note that in reading the bible we Christians are to attempt to discover the author's intentions, hence differences in translations and exegesis. The Qu'ran does not demand this additional level of interpretation.
	David C.
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AhmadJoyia Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2005 Location: Pakistan Online Status: Offline Posts: 1161	Posted: 14 July 2005 at 1:57pm
	Hi bro DavidC, I am specifically refering to St. Paul's claim of apostleship through direct communication with divine Jesus in his vision and hence the vast majority of his writtings in NT. Is this not opposite to what you say ""We Christians have never held that the bible is as direct a communication as you Muslims hold the Qu'ran". I hope I have made myself clear!
	IP Logged

DavidC Senior Member Joined: 20 September 2001 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2211	Posted: 14 July 2005 at 4:44pm
	Chapter and verse, Ahmad. I'm not sure what you are referring to.
	David C.
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