Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

Islam for non-Muslims
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islam for non-Muslims
Message Icon Topic: Questions by Thomas, while studying Qur'a Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 4 Next >>
Author Message
_ALI_
Male  Islam
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 17 February 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 76
Quote _ALI_ Replybullet Posted: 02 March 2009 at 4:36am

To prove my point, I will give an example of Jesus. Here is the Genealogy of Jesus according to

Luke 3:23–31 David  Nathan Mattatha Menna Melea Eliakim Jonam Joseph Judah Simeon Levi Matthat Jorim Eliezer Joshua Er Elmadam Cosam Addi Melki Neri Shealtiel Zerubbabel Rhesa Joanan Joda Josech Semein Mattathias Maath Naggae Esli Nahum Amos Mattathias Joseph Jannai Melchi Levi Matthat Heli Joseph Jesus

Here is the Genealogy according to Matthew 1:7–16

David (Father)-Bathsheba (Mother) Solomon Rehoboam Abijah Asa Jehoshaphat Jehoram - - - Uzziah Jotham Ahaz Hezekiah Manasseh Amon Josiah - Jeconiah Shealtiel Zerubbabel Abiud Eliakim Azor Zadok Achim Eliud Eleazar Matthan Jacob Joseph Jesus

Tell me, which is the correct Genealogy and which is the wrong one? Which part of the Bible is right and which is wrong?
Also here are a few historical contradictions in the Bible.
1. When David defeated the King of Zobah, how many horsemen did he capture?
One thousand and seven hundred (2 Samuel 8:4)
Seven thousand (I Chronicles 18:4)
2. In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?
Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
One million, one hundred thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)
3. How many fighting men were found in Judah?
Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
Four hundred and seventy thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)
4. God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?
Seven (2 Samuel 24:13)
Three (I Chronicles 21:12)
5. How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?
Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26)
Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2)
6. How old was Jehoiachin when he became king of Jerusalem?
Eighteen (2 Kings 24:8)
Eight (2 Chronicles 36:9)
7. How long did he rule over Jerusalem?
Three months (2 Kings 24:8)
Three months and ten days (2 Chronicles 36:9)
8. The chief of the mighty men of David lifted up his spear and killed how many men at one time?
Eight hundred (2 Samuel 23:8)
Three hundred (I Chronicles 11: 11)
9. When did David bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem? Before defeating the Philistines or after?
After (2 Samuel 5 and 6)
Before (I Chronicles 13 and 14)
10. How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark?
Two (Genesis 6:19, 20)
Seven (Genesis 7:2). But despite this last instruction only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 7:8-9)
Now a book which has so many historical inconsistancies, if it tells me that there is a 7 generation gap between Abraham and Nimrod why should I believe it?
But even if we agree with the Bible, there is another explanation. The life times of people according to the Bible varied from 40 to 400, or even a thousand years. Hence it was possible for two persons to be alive who have a 7 generation gap. This explanation is implausable though it is possible. But I agree with the first explanation.  
IP IP Logged
thomasd
 
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 13 July 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 43
Quote thomasd Replybullet Posted: 08 March 2009 at 9:08pm
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah

As Salamu Alaikum Ali.much later Jewish tradition deveolped tales,same as today as in the media/tabloids.

The later Jewish folklore (aka the tabloid stories) are the ones that place Nimrod and Abraham together.


Originally posted by _ALI_

To prove my point, I will give an example of Jesus. Here is the Genealogy of Jesus according to

Luke 3:23–31 David  Nathan Mattatha Menna Melea Eliakim Jonam Joseph Judah Simeon Levi Matthat Jorim Eliezer Joshua Er Elmadam Cosam Addi Melki Neri Shealtiel Zerubbabel Rhesa Joanan Joda Josech Semein Mattathias Maath Naggae Esli Nahum Amos Mattathias Joseph Jannai Melchi Levi Matthat Heli Joseph Jesus

Here is the Genealogy according to Matthew 1:7–16

David (Father)-Bathsheba (Mother) Solomon Rehoboam Abijah Asa Jehoshaphat Jehoram - - - Uzziah Jotham Ahaz Hezekiah Manasseh Amon Josiah - Jeconiah Shealtiel Zerubbabel Abiud Eliakim Azor Zadok Achim Eliud Eleazar Matthan Jacob Joseph Jesus

Tell me, which is the correct Genealogy and which is the wrong one?

one is the genealogy through Mary and one is through Joseph.



Which part of the Bible is right and which is wrong?
Also here are a few historical contradictions in the Bible.
1. When David defeated the King of Zobah, how many horsemen did he capture?
One thousand and seven hundred (2 Samuel 8:4)
Seven thousand (I Chronicles 18:4)
2. In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?
Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
One million, one hundred thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)
3. How many fighting men were found in Judah?
Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
Four hundred and seventy thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)
4. God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?
Seven (2 Samuel 24:13)
Three (I Chronicles 21:12)
5. How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?
Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26)
Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2)
6. How old was Jehoiachin when he became king of Jerusalem?
Eighteen (2 Kings 24:8)
Eight (2 Chronicles 36:9)
7. How long did he rule over Jerusalem?
Three months (2 Kings 24:8)
Three months and ten days (2 Chronicles 36:9)
8. The chief of the mighty men of David lifted up his spear and killed how many men at one time?
Eight hundred (2 Samuel 23:8)
Three hundred (I Chronicles 11: 11)
9. When did David bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem? Before defeating the Philistines or after?
After (2 Samuel 5 and 6)
Before (I Chronicles 13 and 14)
10. How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark?
Two (Genesis 6:19, 20)
Seven (Genesis 7:2). But despite this last instruction only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 7:8-9)
Now a book which has so many historical inconsistancies, if it tells me that there is a 7 generation gap between Abraham and Nimrod why should I believe it?

Because the Bible isn't a single book. It is the poetry, laws, history and prophecy of the Hebrew people, combined with a 4 biographies of Jesus, and letters of advice to the various early churches. The differences between Samuel, Kings, and Chronicles are clearly an issue of poor numerical record keeping by the kingdom of Israel. The only one of those that would cause concern to me is the story of Noah, but 7:2 says "7 pairs of every clean animal" and 7:8-9 say he "took pairs." Taking 7 pairs is still "taking pairs"


as for your original post, I drew no conclusion at all, I merely said that such inconsistencies lead me to question the authenticity of the Qur'an.


Edited by thomasd - 08 March 2009 at 9:11pm
IP IP Logged
seekshidayath
Female Islam
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 March 2006
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3347
Quote seekshidayath Replybullet Posted: 09 March 2009 at 11:16pm

I thought, Ali's post shall answer you.

By the way Thomas, as said, Qura'an and hadith does n't speak of genealogy of Namrud. Does that mean the dialogue between them must be unauthentic ? Namrud, must be the title of that king as was of Pharaoh as well. Like we has Henry I, Henry- II, or Charles - I or Charles - II.
 
Likewise, even Namrud must be title of  those kings, if the genealogy you presented is true. Okay if you still doubt Qura'n being unauthentic, then present ateast one contradiction in it. You shall never find. Nor, can we find an error in it, like other distorted ones.
 


Edited by seekshidayath - 09 March 2009 at 11:21pm
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
IP IP Logged
_ALI_
Male  Islam
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 17 February 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 76
Quote _ALI_ Replybullet Posted: 15 March 2009 at 8:55am
Salam
Sorry for the delay in reply. I was a bit busy.
thomasd=bold 
The later Jewish folklore (aka the tabloid stories) are the ones that place Nimrod and Abraham together.
So according to Christians, they were tabloid stories and Jewish folklore. But you also believe that Bible is authentic, which we don't. So why should we agree with your view of what's authentic and what's unauthentic. To clarify further, let me explain the concept of corruption of God's scriptures. When Muslims say that God's scriptures were corrupted, we mean that some of the unauthentic stuff was considered authentic and some of the authentic stuff was considered unauthentic. Let me give you the example of the Bible. You say that Gospels of Mathew, Mark, Luke, John are authenctic as compared to gospel of Barnabas. But according to us, since prophet Muhammad is mentioned more in the gospel of Barnabas than in the former 4 gospels, the gospel of Barnabas is relatively more authentic. An example of unauthentic becoming authentic and authentic becoming unauthentic. Similarly that 7 generation gap for us is unauthentic and what you regard as folklore is relatively more authentic
one is the genealogy through Mary and one is through Joseph.
Now I have seen both of them. Neither mentions Mary. One is Heli Joseph Jesus and the other is Jacob Joseph Jesus. Joseph is mentioned in both of them, Mary in neither. So shouldn't both be through Joseph?
Because the Bible isn't a single book. It is the poetry, laws, history and prophecy of the Hebrew people, combined with a 4 biographies of Jesus, and letters of advice to the various early churches. The differences between Samuel, Kings, and Chronicles are clearly an issue of poor numerical record keeping by the kingdom of Israel.
That is my point. The Bible wasn't written by God, it was written by those who had a poor record.
002.079 فَوَيْلٌ لِلَّذِينَ يَكْتُبُونَ الْكِتَابَ بِأَيْدِيهِمْ ثُمَّ يَقُولُونَ هَذَا مِنْ عِنْدِ اللَّهِ لِيَشْتَرُوا بِهِ ثَمَنًا قَلِيلا فَوَيْلٌ لَهُمْ مِمَّا كَتَبَتْ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَوَيْلٌ لَهُمْ مِمَّا يَكْسِبُونَ
002.079 Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.
Al-Qur'an, 002.079 (Al-Baqara [The Cow])
Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.910
And the poor record wasn't just numerical. Here are a few inconsistencies which are not related to numbers
When did David bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem? Before defeating the Philistines or after?
After (2 Samuel 5 and 6)
Before (I Chronicles 13 and 14)
What was the name of King Abijahs mother?
Michaiah, daughter of Uriel of Gibeah (2 Chronicles 13:2)
Maachah, daughter of Absalom (2 Chronicles 11:20) But Absalom had only one daughter whose name was Tamar (2 Samuel 14:27
Did Joshua and the Israelites capture Jerusalem?
Yes (Joshua 10:23, 40)
No (Joshua 15:63)
How did Simon Peter find out that Jesus was the Christ?
By a revelation from heaven (Matthew 16:17)
His brother Andrew told him (John 1:41)
These are just a few of the many inconsistencies in the Bible. Hence if the Bible says that there was a 7 generation gap between Abraham and Nimrod, why should it be true?
The only one of those that would cause concern to me is the story of Noah, but 7:2 says "7 pairs of every clean animal" and 7:8-9 say he "took pairs." Taking 7 pairs is still "taking pairs"
Let's read the Bible
Gen 6:19
And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.
"Two of every sort, they shall be male and female" means 2 pairs
Gen 7:2
Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female:
"take to thee by sevens, male and his female" means 7 pairs.
Isn't that a contradiction?
as for your original post, I drew no conclusion at all, I merely said that such inconsistencies lead me to question the authenticity of the Qur'an.
You said that Quran is not authentic since it contradicts with the Bible right? I just said that if Quran contradicts with the Bible, that does not make it unauthentic, since (as I proved) Bible is not authentic itself. Hence if Quran contradicts with a book which is unauthentic does not make Quran unauthentic. If Quran contradicts with something which is authentic, then yes, you can question the authenticity of the Quran. Otherwise, no.
Let me further demonstrate that with an example. Quran says that Nimrod and Abraham had a conversation. But the Bible says that there was a 7 generation gap between Nimrod and Abraham. Hence that leads me to question the authenticity of the Bible. How will you reply to that?
Peace

IP IP Logged
Akhe Abdullah
Male Islam
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 19 November 2008
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1252
Quote Akhe Abdullah Replybullet Posted: 16 March 2009 at 7:24am
As Salamu Alaikum ALI,"Mashallah" Ajabanee Haqqan!
IP IP Logged
thomasd
 
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 13 July 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 43
Quote thomasd Replybullet Posted: 17 March 2009 at 9:21pm
Originally posted by _ALI_

Salam
So according to Christians, they were tabloid stories and Jewish folklore. But you also believe that Bible is authentic, which we don't. So why should we agree with your view of what's authentic and what's unauthentic.

Historical record. Genesis in its current form dates to about 450 years B.C. Tales of Nimrod encountering Abraham do not appear anywhere until at least 100 A.D.

Originally posted by _ALI_

You say that Gospels of Mathew, Mark, Luke, John are authenctic as compared to gospel of Barnabas. But according to us, since prophet Muhammad is mentioned more in the gospel of Barnabas than in the former 4 gospels, the gospel of Barnabas is relatively more authentic. An example of unauthentic becoming authentic and authentic becoming unauthentic.

Relativity has nothing to do with it. God's word is absolute. Either it is the truth, or it is not.

Now I have seen both of them. Neither mentions Mary. One is Heli Joseph Jesus and the other is Jacob Joseph Jesus. Joseph is mentioned in both of them, Mary in neither. So shouldn't both be through Joseph?


Both Matthew 1 and Luke 3 contain genealogies of Jesus. But there is one problem--they are different. Luke's genealogy starts at Adam and goes to David. Matthew's genealogy starts at Abraham and goes to David. When the genealogies arrive at David, they split with David's sons: Nathan (Mary's side) and Solomon (Joseph's side).

There is no discrepancy because one genealogy is for Mary and the other is for Joseph. It was customary to mention the genealogy through the father even though it was clearly known that it was through Mary.

Some critics may not accept this explanation no matter what reasoning is produced. Nevertheless, they should first realize that the Bible should be interpreted in the context of its literary style, culture, and history. Breaking up genealogies into male and female representations was acceptable in the ancient Near East culture since it was often impolite to speak of women without proper conditions being met: male presence, etc. Therefore, one genealogy is of Mary and the other of Joseph--even though both mention Joseph. In other words, the Mary was counted "in" Joseph and under his headship.


Gen 6:19
And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.
"Two of every sort, they shall be male and female" means 2 pairs
Gen 7:2
Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female:
"take to thee by sevens, male and his female" means 7 pairs.
Isn't that a contradiction?

No, the first means "take pairs" (i.e. mating pairs, so that the species may reproduce) and the second means "take 7 pairs of the clean ones"

You said that Quran is not authentic since it contradicts with the Bible right? I just said that if Quran contradicts with the Bible, that does not make it unauthentic, since (as I proved) Bible is not authentic itself. Hence if Quran contradicts with a book which is unauthentic does not make Quran unauthentic.

It leads to question, not to draw conclusions.


However the Qur'an could also be shown to unauthentic if it contradicts itself, yes?

With much pain his mother bears him, and with much pain she brings him into the world. He is born and weaned in thirty months. When he grows to manhood and attains his fortieth year, let him say: ‘Inspire me, Lord, to give thanks for the favours You have bestowed on me and on my parents, and to do good works that will please You. Grant me good descendants. To You I turn and to You I surrender myself.’
Such are those for whom We will accept their noblest works and whose misdeeds We shall overlook. We shall admit them among the heirs of Paradise: true is the promise that has been given them.

Believers, do not befriend your fathers or your brothers if they choose unbelief in preference to faith. Wrongdoers are those that befriend them.
Say: ‘If your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your wives, your tribes, the property you have acquired, the merchandise you fear may not be sold, and the homes you love, are dearer to you than God, His apostle and the struggle for His cause, then wait until God shall fulfill His decree. God does not guide the evil-doers.’ S. 9:23-24

So you are commanded to love and show kindness to your parents even if they are unbelievers, for they raised you well and will be forgiven, but you cannot befriend them? You can find a more in depth analysis of this contradiction here: http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/disbelieving_parents.html

Likewise, claiming the Bible is faulty (though even I as a Christian believe that human error has been introduced into the record keeping of the Jewish histories and that mistranslations may occasionally occur) is a direct internal contradiction in the Qur'an
Surah 3:3
He sent down to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming all previous scriptures, and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel


Sura 6:115

The words of thy Lord are perfect in truth and in justice;
NONE can change His words:
For He is the one who heareth and knoweth all.


Sura 6:34

There is none that can alter the words of Allah.
Already hast thou received some account of those messengers.




Surah 34:50
If I go astray, I go astray only to my own loss

And yet Surah 4:89 commands Muslims to kill any who abandon Islam.

Surah 6:102-103 claims that Allah can not be seen, and yet Surah's
53, 69, 78, and 81 directly contradict this. For a more in depth analysis,
please take the time to read this: http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/allah_seen.htm


Furthermore, the Qur'an says angels are not to be worshipped (with which I agree) because
they can neither create life nor take it away
yet elsewhere it says Allah sends His angel to it to
breathe into it the spirit
and speaks of Those whom the angels CAUSE TO DIE

These are not matters of mere historical record written by a human, these are some of the fundamental beliefs of Islam that I hear defended
every time I debate and claim to be from the very mouth of God who can not err


Edited by thomasd - 17 March 2009 at 9:24pm
IP IP Logged
_ALI_
Male  Islam
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 17 February 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 76
Quote _ALI_ Replybullet Posted: 20 March 2009 at 10:39pm
Salam
Historical record. Genesis in its current form dates to about 450 years B.C. Tales of Nimrod encountering Abraham do not appear anywhere until at least 100 A.D
It's not historical record. As I proved, it is unauthentic historical record. Bible contradicts with history in many aspects. It contradicts with itself. Why should I consider its historical record authentic?
Originally posted by _ALI_

You say that Gospels of Mathew, Mark, Luke, John are authenctic as compared to gospel of Barnabas. But according to us, since prophet Muhammad is mentioned more in the gospel of Barnabas than in the former 4 gospels, the gospel of Barnabas is relatively more authentic. An example of unauthentic becoming authentic and authentic becoming unauthentic.

Relativity has nothing to do with it. God's word is absolute. Either it is the truth, or it is not.
We are not talking about one word. We are talking about chapters, loads of sentences. According to Muslims, the things, stories, sentences in the Bible attributed to God, most of them are not authentic. And in the gospel of Barnabas, the number of sentences which are true are relatively more.

Both Matthew 1 and Luke 3 contain genealogies of Jesus. But there is one problem--they are different. Luke's genealogy starts at Adam and goes to David. Matthew's genealogy starts at Abraham and goes to David. When the genealogies arrive at David, they split with David's sons: Nathan (Mary's side) and Solomon (Joseph's side).

There is no discrepancy because one genealogy is for Mary and the other is for Joseph. It was customary to mention the genealogy through the father even though it was clearly known that it was through Mary

Well if it was customary, then prove it. Give a historical account of a person in which his mother's genealogy ends with his father's name. And how do you know that Nathan is Mary's great grand father? How do you tell the difference between father's genealogy and mother's genealogy. And I gave so many other historical inconsistencies, you only addressed 2. I can give many more but first answer to those already given.
Originally posted by _ALI_
Gen 6:19
And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.
"Two of every sort, they shall be male and female" means 2 pairs
Gen 7:2
Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female:
"take to thee by sevens, male and his female" means 7 pairs.
Isn't that a contradiction?

No, the first means "take pairs" (i.e. mating pairs, so that the species may reproduce) and the second means "take 7 pairs of the clean ones"
Read the verse again. The first says: take two, they shall be male and female. Second says:take seven, they shall be male and female. These verses are pretty much identical. If you it means take pairs, then both verses say 2pairs/7pairs. If you say it means take animals, then both verses say 2 animals (male/female) OR 7 animals(male/female). Why do you say that the first verse refers to pairs and the second refers to animals when the verses are clearly identical? And again, you touched only two out of the 15 contradictions I gave. I can give many more but first answer to the remaining 13.
You said that Quran is not authentic since it contradicts with the Bible right? I just said that if Quran contradicts with the Bible, that does not make it unauthentic, since (as I proved) Bible is not authentic itself. Hence if Quran contradicts with a book which is unauthentic does not make Quran unauthentic.
I'll reply to the rest later. I have to go.
Peace


Edited by _ALI_ - 20 March 2009 at 10:43pm
IP IP Logged
thomasd
 
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 13 July 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 43
Quote thomasd Replybullet Posted: 20 March 2009 at 11:22pm
Salaam Alaikum,
Originally posted by _ALI_

It's not historical record. As I proved, it is unauthentic historical record. Bible contradicts with history in many aspects. It contradicts with itself. Why should I consider its historical record authentic?

So what you're saying is.....the newer story that can only be traced back 1900 years is more likely to be authentic then the story that can be traced back 2450 years?


We are not talking about one word. We are talking about chapters, loads of sentences. According to Muslims, the things, stories, sentences in the Bible attributed to God, most of them are not authentic. And in the gospel of Barnabas, the number of sentences which are true are relatively more.

The gospel of Barnabas was written more than a millenium and a half after Jesus's life. The 4 gospels in the Bible were written by people who lived through the events of his life and followed him around on a daily basis for the entire course of his ministry.

Well if it was customary, then prove it.

....really? You don't prove customs, they are recorded. If you'd like though I'll run it by my friend who's spent the last 4 years attending a private Jewish school studying Jewish history and ask her what she was taught on the matter.

Why do you say that the first verse refers to pairs and the second refers to animals when the verses are clearly identical? And again, you touched only two out of the 15 contradictions I gave. I can give many more but first answer to the remaining 13.

Most of the translations I have say "pairs" and "7 pairs"   Clearly  7 pairs of something is still having pairs of something. However I think it equally likely that God was clarifying his instructions to Noah with regards to collecting clean animals. If I say to you please go get several bags of marshmallows and some cans of beans from the grocery store. And then I tell you to get 4 cans of beans, there is no contradiction, I'm merely being more specific about the beans then in the original instructions. Or, if two different people wrote down our conversation, and one person wrote that I told you to get beans and marshmallows, and one wrote that I told you to get 3 bags of marshmallows and 4 of beans, there is no contradiction there (assuming I told you to get 3 bags of marshmallows), one record is simply being more specific then the others.


You said that Quran is not authentic since it contradicts with the Bible right? I just said that if Quran contradicts with the Bible, that does not make it unauthentic, since (as I proved) Bible is not authentic itself. Hence if Quran contradicts with a book which is unauthentic does not make Quran unauthentic.

The fact that the Qur'an contradicts the Bible (specifically the Gospel story as accounted in the 4 canonical gosepls), which I have good reason to consider the truth, certainly leads me to doubt the Qur'an. However even more concerning to me is that the Qur'an claims to be with contradiction, but contradicts itself in the ways listed above. The Bible makes no such claims, and the fundamental teachings of the Bible do not lean on whether or not court scribes properly recorded the number of people involved in an army. Those portions of narrative aren't prophecy, and they don't claim to be from God's mouth, they are simply recounting important portions of Jewish history. If you could find serious contradictions between the accounts in the Gospels, I would have reason to be concerned, and would take a good hard look at those portions of the Gospel. The strength and weakness of the Qur'an however is that it does claim to be by a single author, unchanged throughout its history, and the author is God who can not make a mistake or contradict himself. If the Qur'an holds up to scrutiny all its claims hold up to scrutiny, if however a singel portion of the Qur'an can be shown to be false or self-contradictory, then it is imperative to accept that it can't possibly have been written by God, for He is incapable of making such a grievous mistake. Thus I am asking you to consider the contradictions I have listed above on an individual basis. If there is something that has been lost in the translation from Arabic to English that resolves the contradiction, please do your best to explain it to me.
May God grant us all wisdom and a clear and discerning mind in this matter, for it is of the utmost importance.
~Thomas


Edited by thomasd - 20 March 2009 at 11:25pm
IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 4 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com