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 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Regional : Europe
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believer
 
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Quote believer Replybullet Posted: 02 May 2009 at 12:51pm
"And I am curious as to how the cabbies know the person is carrying alcohol?"  I wondered this myself.
 
We have a service in my city that will take people home after New Years Eve parties so they don't drive drunk.  these cabbies are actually doing a wonderful service-saving victims of drunk drivers!  Too bad the Muslim cabbies can't see it this way.
 
There were also Muslims cabbies that will not pick up blind people with seeing eye dogs.
 
Forget building a church in Mecca, how about Saudi Arabia!!  Iran, Irag, Afghanistan? 
 
Curious-
Is it absolutely necessary to have the minarets?  Call over a loud speaker?  I don't remember reading anything in the Quran about this?
 
There are a few mosques in my city, they do not have minarets.  I don't know that I have evr heard a call to pray over a loud speaker.


Edited by believer - 02 May 2009 at 12:51pm
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Shasta'sAunt
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Quote Shasta'sAunt Replybullet Posted: 02 May 2009 at 5:51pm
How about we rewrite the Constitution of the United States and just leave out all of the freedom of religion stuff? Then we won't have to feel it is unAmerican, not to mention illegal, to discriminate against certain religions and all these annoying questions will just go away. 
 
"Come on, it's not difficult to understand. I am not against the mosques, sure, but I cannot accept a foreign community trying to be on the top."
 
I wonder if the Native Americans felt that way as they watched all of those Spanish Christians landing on their shores. Imagine all of those indigenous people opening their arms to welcome Columbus only to be enslaved and murdered, or Montezuma welcoming Cortes' with gifts and being taken hostage and dethrowned, having your religion forcibly replaced with Christianity, your land being claimed for the Spanish crown, your people enslaved. Destruction of your entire history, the Aztec, Inca, and Mayan empires....
 
 
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt
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Quote Pati Replybullet Posted: 03 May 2009 at 12:37am
Originally posted by semar

Barcelona and Makkah are not the same level.  Makkah probably the same level with Vatican. How about we build a mosque in Vatican City?
Perhaps Barcelona is the same level with Jakarta, in Jakarta there many big giant Church and a big giant evangelical building.


The first post was talking about Rome, the place where we have the center of the Catholic Christians. And there is no space in Vatican for new Temples, so please, don't make the suggestion.


Many time the news is not ballances, they expose many bad thing about muslim majority country, they don't think critically.
Here is one of the fact, many think that Indonesia is not friendly or or welcome to Christiants, but eventhough christian about 9% of total population the Indonesian government give them 4 natoinal holiday out of 14, and muslim that 86% have 5 days out of 14.
 


In Algeria, for instance, they are talking about a calendar change to accommodate to ours one (Sunday off). They didn't do yet, but they are seriously thinking about it, because they are losing money in their business with Europe.

And I don't think that Indonesia is not friendly, because I work with people from there and they are, so... The ignorance is the biggest enemy of the truth, and the people should not talk about what they ignore.

Regards



Edited by Pati - 03 May 2009 at 12:38am
No God wants the killing, but the peace.
The weapons are carried by people, not by religions.
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Quote believer Replybullet Posted: 07 May 2009 at 9:40am
I am repeating myself here but wonder:
 
How about building a church in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Irag, Afghanistan? 
 
Curious-
Is it absolutely necessary to have the minarets?  Call over a loud speaker?  I don't remember reading anything in the Quran about this?
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Quote Hayfa Replybullet Posted: 07 May 2009 at 10:37am
How about building a church in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Irag, Afghanistan?

The only places there are not churches are in Saudi Arabia as far as I know. And they cannot be build there.

Afghanistan and Iraq have been war zones, so if the Churches got blown up like everything else, blame those who invaded.

"Come on, it's not difficult to understand. I am not against the mosques, sure, but I cannot accept a foreign community trying to be on the top."

Pati, what makes someone 'foreign' to you? That sounds very Eurocentric.. which is fine, if that is what you are. But if these people are here as legally as you are..

It is not about being on top, its about people worshiping.. that is all. And frankly if a place has many Muslims and they want and can afford to build a mosque why not? So is okay for the Mexicans to have a giant loud church that does mass only in Spanish?

Fear of foreigners has always been part of our history. Where do you live? I live in Washington DC, that the city itself is 80-85% nonwhite. There are big churches, small churches, big mosques, small mosques, Buddhist temples, large synagogues, small synagogues, a HUGE Mormon temple and various other religous places of worship.

The reason why religious groups is to allow for people to worship. There are no churches in makkah and medina, there are no Christians. So why would you have a church there? Just like why build a mosque in the Andes mountians in the middle of Peru if there are no Muslims? And you only build the size for the amount of people that need to be part of. Heck many churches in Europe are closing due to lack of use..

When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Quote Shasta'sAunt Replybullet Posted: 07 May 2009 at 3:25pm
How about building a church in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Irag, Afghanistan? 
 
I know this has been repeated but how about building a mosque in the Vatican?
 
There are churches in Iran, beautiful churches that flourished because the Muslims did not persecute the early Christians like the early Christians did:
 
Church of Beit-ol Lahm (Bethlehem) in Esfahan, Iran
The majority of churches in Iran that possess historical and artistic value were built around the eight century A.H. or the 14th century AD, and the period thereafter. Of course, this does not mean that there were no churches existing in the country before that period.

During the reign of Shah Abbas, the
Safavid king, his sagacious policies caused a sizable number of Armenians from Armenia and Azarbaijan to transfer and settle in Esfahan and other regions of Iran. A place called Jolfa was built at the banks of the Zayande-rud River in Esfahan and became the residence of these migrating people. Consequently, churches were erected in that town. Meanwhile, after a short lapse of time, some Armenians moved to Gilan and some resided in Shiraz.
 
After the death of Shah Abbas the First, his successor, Shah Abbas the Second, also paid close attention to the welfare of Armenians and more churches were erected in Jolfa.

The influx of many Europeans during the reign of the
Qajars led to the flourishing of other churches, in addition to those that were constructed previously. A number of these edifices have lasted and acquired architectural and artistic significance.
 
Afghanistan has been a country at war since the 1970's. I think the Afghanis would be happy just to have homes and hospitals that aren't being blown up by Americans right now....
 
Before the United States decided to liberate the Iraqis Christians lived in Iraq quite peacefully. So, I suppose that the Christians suffering there now have only their fellow Christians to blame.
 
AMMAN-CHRISTIANS Feb-28-2007 (600 words) With photos and map. xxxi

Iraqi Christians face danger; some say it was better under Saddam

By Judith Sudilovsky
Catholic News Service

AMMAN, Jordan (CNS) -- Seen as allies of the West, Christians and their institutions have become targets of extremist Islamic groups in Iraq, say Iraqi Christians.

"Christians are facing a big problem in Iraq. Maybe all Iraqis are facing big problems, but I am talking about the Christians now," said Ra'ed Bahou, the Pontifical Mission for Palestine's regional director for Jordan and Iraq.

Saddam Hussein's regime -- no matter how cruel and despotic -- kept the lid on any sectarian violence, said one Iraqi Catholic refugee in Jordan, who asked that his name not be used. He said Saddam, a secular leader, was especially good for Christians, as long as they stayed out of the way.

"Saddam (controlled) everything. Nobody could say anything bad especially (about) us Christians," he said. "Christians in the Middle East are very good people. We are peace-loving people."

Another refugee said that after years of living in fear and daily bombings many Iraqi Christians felt they were actually safer with Saddam.

"We are getting tired. When Saddam was in power there was no fighting. Saddam loved the Christians. We were safer with Saddam; now we just leave the country," he said.

Christians make up about 5 percent of the 1.5 million Iraqi refugees in Jordan, said Bahou, whose agency is under the auspices of the New York-based Catholic Near East Welfare Association.

Most of the Christians in Iraq were part of the middle class and had a relatively good standard of living before the war, Bahou said. Like most Christians in the Middle East, they devoted a lot of their time to their children and their education.

"When there is a threat (against) their children's lives, they leave Iraq," he said. "People are leaving for their children."

At least six Iraqi priests have been kidnapped and five Christian churches bombed in the past few years. At first the Islamic extremists targeted mainly Christians, but now they have turned against each other, said one relief official who works with the Iraqi refugees.

"In the end there will be no Iraq," she said.

Bahou said he was "not optimistic about what is going on demographically."

"Before there used to be 1 million Christians in Iraq; now there are only half a million left. Everything is changing, and it will never be like it was before," he said.

With only one Chaldean Catholic priest attending to the pastoral needs of the Chaldean refugees in Amman, many Iraqi Catholic refugees have had to find their place within the churches of different rites. Jordanian churches have never been so full, said Bahou, and worshippers must come early to find a seat at Sunday Mass.

Through the Franciscan Sisters of Mary, the Pontifical Mission in Jordan has sponsored a catechism training program for Iraqi religious educators who have remained in Iraq. For at least three years, workshops were held four times a year, twice in Jordan and twice in Iraq, in coordination with Chaldean Archbishop Louis Sako of Kirkuk. Religious experts from Lebanon also take part in the meetings, said Bahou.

"Last year we held the two workshops in Amman but we were not able to hold it in Iraq because of the political situation," Bahou said. Nevertheless, he said, "outside contact is very important" for the Christian religious community in Iraq.

In addition, with so many Iraqis now living in Jordan, keeping the lines of communication open with their religious and spiritual leadership in Iraq becomes very important, Bahou said.

END

Believer, you make these sweeping generalities without checking the facts. If you want to believe that all Christians in the Middle East are living lives of terrible persecution then go ahead, but repeating such just makes you appear uneducated. Christians have lived in the Middle East for centuries without any problems, and any difficulties they are experiencing now are a direct result of western interference.
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt
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