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 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Regional : Europe
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Ron Webb
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2008 at 7:54pm
You're not allowed to drink alcohol in public, including public stores, etc., but I'm not sure that a a grocery store or coffee shop would or legally could refuse admittance to someone carrying an unopened bottle of liquor.  Perhaps a licenced restaurant would object because it would violate their liquor licence, but that's a different matter.  (I remember once bringing a bottle of my home-made wine to a restaurant as a gift for a friend.  It was in a fancy bag I think, so probably the staff didn't even know what it was; but I can't see them creating a fuss about it even if they had known.)
 
Stores and especially restaurants have the right to refuse admittance to people whose behaviour or appearance would be offensive to most other patrons, but a taxi only deals with one client (or group of clients) at a time so again that doesn't apply.
 
I don't know about other countries, but Christian fundamentalists in Canada sometimes run into legal troubles by refusing clients on religious grounds.  I seem to remember that a Catholic-owned print shop was heavily fined for refusing to print some information on contraception or abortion.  Even more controversially, now that same-sex marriage is legal, certain marriage commissioners had to forfeit their licence to perform marriages because they refused to marry homosexual couples.  So yeah, it works both ways.
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Shasta'sAunt
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Quote Shasta'sAunt Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2008 at 10:00pm

Whether your business deals with individual clients or groups should not matter. Taxi drivers in this country frequently refuse to pick up fares based on the area of town they are in or skin color.  If it becomes mandatory for taxi drivers to be unable to refuse fares due to alcohol then it should be so across the board.

Apparently there was no problem before 9-11 with the cabbies refusing to drive the passengers. They would just send the passenger to the next taxi and send the driver that refused to the end of the line. After 9-11 it became an issue:
 
"MAC OKs Penalties For Cabbies Who Refuse Fares Minneapolis (AP) ―
Apr 16, 2007 7:23 pm US/Central
 
The operator of the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport on Monday approved tougher penalties for cabdrivers who refuse service to travelers carrying alcohol -- a policy that will affect hundreds of Muslim drivers.

On a unanimous voice vote, the Metropolitan Airports Commission agreed to rules that will suspend a driver's airport taxi license for 30 days the first time the driver refuses service and revoke the license for two years after the second violation. The new penalties take effect May 11.

Commissioners hope the rules will end an issue simmering for the past several years.

More than 70 percent of the cabbies at the airport are Somalis -- who are commonly Muslim -- and many of them claim that Islamic law prohibits them from giving rides to people carrying alcohol.
 
Under the airport's old rules, a driver who refused to transport someone carrying alcohol would be told to go to the back of the taxicab line. Since January 2002, there have been more than 4,800 instances of a driver refusing service because a customer possessed, or was suspected of possessing, alcohol, airport officials said."  (WCCO.com)
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Hayfa
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Quote Hayfa Replybullet Posted: 23 July 2008 at 3:22am
Uh oh.. thoaw Muslims are taking over Miineapolis!! Send out alerts..
 
and what is the big deal... get anoter taxi. I have the right to refuse to enter a specfic cab, they too should have the right to refuse someone from entering. They are not slaves. We have right to freedom of religion.
 
You ever hear of the Masters Golf Club? They don't have any femaile members. For a long time they had no black members. As a private entity they have that legal right to do so-whatever the motivation (yes women are a BIG danger to them).
 
Minuteman: ther eis no way for any church or masjid or temple to promise anything to anyone on behalf of other people... Some churches have very negative rhetoric and no one barrs them..
 
I know a woman who is Jewish who was hearing negative trhings al lthe time about Muslims, came to the masjid to learn. All types of negativity out there..
 
 
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Ron Webb
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 23 July 2008 at 6:55pm
Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt

Whether your business deals with individual clients or groups should not matter.
Of course it matters.  If I am in a taxi and don't like the music the driver is playing on the radio, I will ask him to change it, or turn it down, or whatever.  Since I'm his only customer, I see no reason why he shouldn't accommodate me.  In contrast, if I don't like the music in a restaurant I can ask them to change it, but I don't necessarily expect them to comply because they have to consider their other customers as well.
 
Taxi drivers in this country frequently refuse to pick up fares based on the area of town they are in or skin color.  If it becomes mandatory for taxi drivers to be unable to refuse fares due to alcohol then it should be so across the board.
I'm surprised if that's how it works in your country, but in mine, refusing a fare based on skin colour could get a cabbie in a heap of trouble.  Yeah, maybe it happens and it's hard to prove, but it's unquestionably against the law.
 
Originally posted by Hayfa

and what is the big deal... get anoter taxi. I have the right to refuse to enter a specfic cab, they too should have the right to refuse someone from entering. They are not slaves. We have right to freedom of religion.
If, as Shasta'sAunt says, up to 70% of cab drivers are Somali and most of them are Muslim, then it could be a big deal indeed. You might have to try several cabs before you would get one who would take you.
 
But let's turn it around.  If a cabbie refused to let you in his cab because you were Muslim, would that be "big deal"?
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Hayfa
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Quote Hayfa Replybullet Posted: 24 July 2008 at 4:54am
But let's turn it around.  If a cabbie refused to let you in his cab because you were Muslim, would that be "big deal"?
 
Yes because carrying alcohol is rather different then who you are as a person.
 
And actually it is not shirah law being implemented. You can buy alcohol in Pakistan if you are nonMuslim.  It is a personal creed. And it is different if you don't like the music.. you arepaying for a service.. if you don't like it and they won't turn it down, refuse to buy their service.
 
They have the right to refuse to give service. They are not public employees.. its like places that are private that discriminate.. and it happens all the time.. you think it doesn't happen you are foolin yourself.
 
I am not why this is a big deal.. Shirah law would be if the state of Minnesota went by the marriage laws of Islam. This is not Shirah law being implemented in US.  We all are allowed personal choices. Would I ever marry a drinker or smiler no. It is personal choice.
 
 
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Shasta'sAunt
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Quote Shasta'sAunt Replybullet Posted: 24 July 2008 at 12:13pm
Well, I didn't say 70% of the cabbies are Somalian, the newspaper article did. However, since this practice had been going on for years before 9-11 and there seemed to be no problem why make it an issue after 9-11? To me it appears to be a case of reverse discrimination. 
 
My husband does have a business and he has refused service to people on a few occasions, people who came in drunk or acting aggressive. He will not allow alcohol or smoking on the premises. He has even had to call the police a few times to get people to leave and the police back him up 100%. It is his right to refuse to serve people.
 
But he has never refused service based on a person's race or religion. On the whole he doesn't even know their religion and doesn't care.  There are laws to protect people from discrimination based on religion, race, etc. There are no laws to protect people's right to carry alcohol or to force another to provide service to that individual.
 
And I am curious as to how the cabbies know the person is carrying alcohol? If it is bagged up or packed away they would never know, so perhaps the people have been drinking or try to drink while in the cab. If that is the case, then almost any business in this country can refuse to serve someone who is drunk or is wanting to drink alcohol within the confines of their business. Try going into any store in a mall and opening a bottle of wine....
 
 
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Pati
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Quote Pati Replybullet Posted: 02 May 2009 at 3:56am
What if we built in Makkah a Church?

After that, we will be able to talk in the same level.

For instance, the Muslim community in Barcelona was very angry because they didn't get the permissions to build a Mosque largest than the cathedral... do you understand?

Come on, it's not difficult to understand. I am not against the mosques, sure, but I cannot accept a foreign community trying to be on the top.

Yes, we are opened, and we accept other religions in our countries, but we cannot accept this kind of challenge, I am sorry.

If you ask for respect, start showing yours.

Regards




No God wants the killing, but the peace.
The weapons are carried by people, not by religions.
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semar
 
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Quote semar Replybullet Posted: 02 May 2009 at 12:07pm
Originally posted by Pati

What if we built in Makkah a Church?

After that, we will be able to talk in the same level.

Barcelona and Makkah are not the same level.  Makkah probably the same level with Vatican. How about we build a mosque in Vatican City?
Perhaps Barcelona is the same level with Jakarta, in Jakarta there many big giant Church and a big giant evangelical building.
 
Many time the news is not ballances, they expose many bad thing about muslim majority country, they don't think critically.
Here is one of the fact, many think that Indonesia is not friendly or or welcome to Christiants, but eventhough christian about 9% of total population the Indonesian government give them 4 natoinal holiday out of 14, and muslim that 86% have 5 days out of 14.
 
Indonesian population:
  • Muslim 86%
  • Protestant 6%
  • Catholic 3%
  • Hindu 2%
  • Other 3%
  •  
    Date (Gregorian Calendar) Date (Islamic Calendar) English Name Local Name Remarks
    1 January New Year's Day Tahun Baru Masehi Chistian
    26 January Chinese New Year Tahun Baru Imlek Chineese (Budhist)
    9 March Mouloud Birth of the Prophet Maulid Nabi Muhammad Islam
    26 March Day of Silence Hari Raya Nyepi (Tahun Baru Saka) Hindhu
    10 April Good Friday Wafat Isa Al-Masih (Jumat Agung) Christian
    8 May Buddha's Birthday Waisak Budhist
    21 May Ascension Day Kenaikan Isa Al-Masih Christian
    20 July Ascension of the Prophet Lailat al Miraj Islam
    17 August Independence Day Hari Proklamasi Kemerdekaan R.I.
    21 September Eid al-Fitr End of Ramadan Idul Fitri (Lebaran) Islam
    28 November Eid al-Adha Feast of the Sacrifice Idul Adha Islam
    18 December 1 Muharram Islamic New Year Tahun Baru 1430 Hijriyah Islam
    25 December Christmas Hari Natal
    Chistian
     
    Sunday off, not Friday off.


    Edited by semar - 02 May 2009 at 12:17pm
    Salam/Peace,
    Semar
    The Prophet said: "Do not eat before you are hungry, and stop eating before you are full"
    "1/3 of your stomach for food 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air"
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