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Message Icon Topic: France: Muslim too submissive for citizenship Post Reply Post New Topic
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seekshidayath
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Quote seekshidayath Replybullet Posted: 18 July 2008 at 11:20pm

As'Salamu Alaikum .

There are many aspects to be considered from the article shared.

Firstly, if she had been under pressure from her husband or other male relatives to wear burqah, she would have easily agreed to take her face-lift off.

Secondly, if she wore it, by her own will to obey the command of Allah swt, as a true muslimah, she would take her face-lift  off before a female-officer. So do i doubt this article as an handi work of media.

"Faiza M. speaks French but because she told authorities that she lives in "total submission" to her husband it was deemed that this demonstrated "insufficient assimilation" into French life."

If this was what she told the authorities, then she's wrong. Her "total submission", shud have been for Allah swt, not for her husband.

Its clear as the author says,

" Faiza M. was rejected because she is a Muslim woman who wears a burqa in a nation who mostly want Muslims to leave."

This case is about being anti-Islam and anti-Muslim. And this virulent bigotry is being carried out on the body of a Muslim woman.

So much for freedom, freedom of religion, fraternity, justice, and equality under the law.

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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Shasta'sAunt
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Quote Shasta'sAunt Replybullet Posted: 19 July 2008 at 10:10am
Originally posted by Ron Webb

Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt

The French didn't "enter" Morocco, they invaded Morocco. This woman is clearly not invading, she is seeking permission from the French government to allow her to live with her French husband and three French children. 
Exactly.  So there's no basis for comparison at all, eh?  Sorry I brought it up. Tongue
 
You're not sorry at all you agent provacateur.... Too bad, I was going to work in that extra 3.8 years somehow....LOL
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
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Ron Webb
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 19 July 2008 at 11:30am
Okay, I'm not sure who's kidding who at this point.  Shasta'sAunt, you are aware that YOU were the one who made the spurious comparison with the invasion of Morocco, right? Confused
Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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Shasta'sAunt
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Quote Shasta'sAunt Replybullet Posted: 19 July 2008 at 6:08pm
Originally posted by Ron Webb

Okay, I'm not sure who's kidding who at this point.  Shasta'sAunt, you are aware that YOU were the one who made the spurious comparison with the invasion of Morocco, right? Confused
 
This is my original post to which you responded. I'm not sure of which spurious comparison you speak. I did wonder at the sensibilities of the French and mentioned the irony of the situation... 
 
However, for the sake of a nonbiased comparison, perhaps she should invade France and occupy the country in a brutal fashion that forces the native inhabitants to adopt her language, culture, and government. Then we would have an equal basis in which to compare the situations.
 
"I wonder if the French had the same sensibilities when they colonized Morocco and lived there? Do you think they thought that they were too French to be living among the Moroccans?  I wonder if the French women were forced to wear jalabiahs or gonduras to fit in. 
 
I guess we could ask that about almost any group that has immigrated or settled in another country.  I don't think the Europeans who settled in North America tried very hard to "fit" in with the indigenous population. Too bad there weren't any immigration tests or dress codes back then. Things would certainly be different now.

Ironic isn't it that the French ran roughshod over the Moroccans and took over their country without any remorse, yet now a Moroccan can't live in France. You would think it would only be fair."



Edited by Shasta'sAunt - 19 July 2008 at 6:11pm
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
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Ron Webb
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 19 July 2008 at 8:54pm
Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt

Ironic isn't it that the French ran roughshod over the Moroccans and took over their country without any remorse, yet now a Moroccan can't live in France. You would think it would only be fair.
Is that a valid comparison or not?  If it is, then how can you be against the first but in favour of the second?  If it is not a valid comparison (which it obviously isn't), then why bring it up at all, unless simply to discredit the French for an unrelated event a hundred years ago?
Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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Salams_wife
 
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Quote Salams_wife Replybullet Posted: 19 July 2008 at 8:58pm

Maybe any the Germans in WWII should have made the French assimilate to them.  That would have been interesting and a good comparison.

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Shasta'sAunt
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Quote Shasta'sAunt Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2008 at 1:51pm
Originally posted by Ron Webb

Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt

Ironic isn't it that the French ran roughshod over the Moroccans and took over their country without any remorse, yet now a Moroccan can't live in France. You would think it would only be fair.
Is that a valid comparison or not?  If it is, then how can you be against the first but in favour of the second?  If it is not a valid comparison (which it obviously isn't), then why bring it up at all, unless simply to discredit the French for an unrelated event a hundred years ago?
 
I was pointing out the irony, an outcome of events contrary to what might be expected, of the situation. 
 
The French were still in Morocco 50 years ago, but does irony have a time limit?
 
 
 
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
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Chrysalis
 
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Quote Chrysalis Replybullet Posted: 21 July 2008 at 5:19am
Originally posted by believer

LOL!!  Chrysalis  said - Apart from the silly statement that faces are an identity  Talk about silly -  NOW that is a silly statement!!

Can you honestly suggest that faces equate one's identity today? Our face does not represent our identity. . . Our identity is a combination of various aspects.
Even if you want to talk about the legal aspect of identity. It is easy to dupe a person regarding one's identity if we focus on faces. Which is why there are thumbprints, iris-scans, etc etc. What with plastic surgeries etc (like S.A) mentioned, one cannot identify another based on faces. Even something as minor as a haircut or a SHAVE can alter the facial identity. But then again, I am not all surprised you said that. . . the mere fact that u oppose any coverings of any sort, shows that you probably like to judge and identify people as soon as you look at them, by thier faces. . and physical features. . .even before you get to know them or speak to them.
 
 
Having lived in a country filled with freedoms it is my gut reaction to think that a women covered in a black sheet on a bright sunny day is not freeAt least let it be a white sheet!!! 
 
 
Smile a woman/man who ventures out on a bright sunny day, all covered up - is the oppositte of 'silly'. He/she is smart. Versus a woman who ventures out on a bright sunny day, clad in a bikini . . . or even it be HALF SLEEVES. She is exposing herself to harmful elements.
 
And again, I guess we differ on what 'free' means too, right? To me, a woman, who has the guts/freedom to NOT CARE what ppl like you think of her BODY bieng COVERED. . . are the ones who are free. They are not bound or pressurized by any social notions of what is 'in' or what-the-other-thinks-of me-based-on-my-appearance. Versus, a woman, who is sooo bound by her image-based-perceptions, she feels the need to expose herself to harmful rays, and get sun-burnt, get tan-lines rather than wear full-sleeves, cover herself up. And when it is cold, she still prefers to wear skirts and etc, despite the cold, because layers of clothing make her look unattractive. . . one needs to only walk down the streets of London to ascertain that fact. Look at a couple, and the guy will be wrapped up in sacrves and an anorak, while the girl whose body language tells she is cold, and has her arms wrapped around herself, will be wearing skirts/no sleeves, no sweater. . . . . . . .  .
 
The only aspect I find myself agreeing to is the color black, perhaps white would be cooler. . . but let me remind you that the reason many burqa-clad women choose black is bcz of personal prefernces and the practicality of the black-dress, easy to keep clean, stains off, etc. Even non-muslim women are partial to black. . . Ever seen the Afghani women? They wear blue burqas. . .
 
Besides, why do u have a problem with the BLACK burqa? Your nuns/priests also have a tendency to choose black. . . especially the ortho nuns. . . .thier dress is very similar to what many muslim women wear today. The only difference is that these everyday muslim women believe that one does not have to be 'married to God' to consider thier bodies special, and not a public-spectacle. . . but than an average muslim woman is equally special and worthy.


Edited by Chrysalis - 21 July 2008 at 5:33am
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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