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General Islamic Matter
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : General Islamic Matter
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Shasta'sAunt
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Quote Shasta'sAunt Replybullet Posted: 18 July 2008 at 2:42pm
Assalamu Alaikum:
 
In the end everything is a choice.  It's how we choose that is important and what we will bring with us on the Day of Judgement.
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt
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thomasd
 
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Quote thomasd Replybullet Posted: 19 July 2008 at 1:47pm
Originally posted by seekshidayath

No, i did not. But yes, since last month i started studying christianity. I did not enter into that discussions, at an other thread of yours, since am still new it. I shall ask my tutor of it. and let you know soon,I do know the answer to that explanation of Adam, and Jesus's temptations as well, but unable to properly frame up. As said, am new to that study. I shall try my best to let you Islamic thoughts regarding that subject soon, insha Allah [ Allah Wills]


thank you, I am eager to hear what you have to say. I began reading the annotated Qur'an you linked to, and the first disagreement I had was in the commentary for Surah 2:4. (Correct me if this is not the correct way to reference a quote from the Qur'an).


Originally posted by commentary

It is also closed to those who, even if they believe in the need for such guidance, do not consider it necessary to seek it through the channel of revelation and prophethood, but would rather weave their own set of ideas and concepts and regard them as equivalent to Divine Guidance.

it is absolutely essential to be able to reason out the meanings of scripture beyond what is explicitly stated in the text, by looking at historical context, language, and other channels (such as science, for He created the physical laws which govern this universe as well as the spirtual ones) through which God has revealed parts of the nature of his character.


Originally posted by commentary

who acknowledge that this guidance does not come to people individually but reaches them through Prophets and Divine Books

I think that while scripture is key to a working understanding of God, that God also chooses to reveal himself to people on an individual basis as they grow in their faith.

Originally posted by commentary

but are devotees of Truth alone, and are therefore prepared to submit to Divine Guidance wherever it be found.

this I agree with completely, and find it to be contradictory to the first 2 pieces I quoted from the commentary. Faith and reason are tied hand in hand for we do not serve a God who's decisions are arbitrary, and to say that one must rely on faith alone and then to say "seek truth wherever it can be found" is a blatant contradiction.
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seekshidayath
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Quote seekshidayath Replybullet Posted: 19 July 2008 at 8:15pm
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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Quote Sign*Reader Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2008 at 2:04pm

MERE CHRISTIANITY by C.S. Lewis

You are suggesting  bro seekshidayath to read Lewis' book Mere Christianity a sort of for you his asking you read Prophet Muhammad(pbuh)’s biography!

Br. S’h may respond in his own time but I would like to add my two cents on  the subject as far my memories will assist me in my golden years!

It seems you are equating Lewis by default in the same category as Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

Lewis  may be an example of a great scholar and intellectual of his time who also left his faith to be an atheist and later converted to Christianity under the influence of his friend fantasy writer J R Tolkien and his disappointment to Anglicanism rather Tolkien’s Roman Catholicism!. And the influence of Lewis’s other fiction books created more fiction writers likes of J K Rowling of Harry Potter fame etc And I know our fundamentalist Christian neighbor expressly banned her kids from the Harry Potter readings! I wouldn’t know why! LOL

I am not into fiction and or fantasy writers but my kids are crazy about The Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter stuff for their age!

About the time period of history of Lewis’s lectures when the Brit’s- the Anglicans were at Germans- the Lutherans and Catholics were at each other’s throats the jury is still out! My first perusal many years ago didn’t leave any convincing validity of Christian beliefs due to his Trilemma!

For the starters Lewis concludes the "Preface" by saying that he sees Christianity as a great house with a large hall. Different rooms leading off the hall are the different denominations. He said that he is not primarily concerned about which room Christians occupy, but he is concerned about getting them into the hall.

 

Lewis might have been speaking and writing to the people in the rooms, and possibly even to those in the hall more like preaching to the choir, but if you really think the time frame of the book the Brits had a occupied(colonized) a good portion of the known world  and Hitler wanted to get his hands on those lands! The inhabitants of that were people with one main divine religion of Islam!

The way things turned out Hitler lost in his attempt for the reasons not to be discussed here but the hall and the room where Anglican entered seems they made a wrong choice and want to get out of the house. In the UK weekly church attendance has dropped below a million, and worldwide the church has been bitterly divided over the issues of homosexuality and the ordination of women priests. I find no convincing reasons to move into the hall from outside the house when I could see the moral decline of the house’s neighborhood!.

I think, because most of his readers are Christians who buy the book because they are looking for substantiation. They are not searchers of truth. Any writer can capture a sympathetic audience by capitalizing on those areas that everyone " presume " to be right.

History is filled with examples of what Christians  "morality" has done to worsen our lot. Whole cities can be gleefully exterminated in their God's name. Why else were the Christian-dominated centuries called the "Dark" Ages?

For the sake of discussion relevancy here I would get to the chapter of

CHRISTIAN MARRIAGE:

 QUOTE“A great many people seem to think that if you area Christian yourself you should try to make divorce difficult for every one. I do not think that. At least I know I should be very angry if the Mohammedans tried to prevent the rest of us from drinking wine.”

In the above quoted passage it indicates how ignorant Lewis is to call Muslims as Mohammedans which is obvious that his mentality is colonialist or orientalist and outdated for a discussion amongst the true followers of divine religions! It is an insult to a true Muslim it that simple! The British colonialists had an agenda to destroy Islam and degrade Muslims in their understanding of sacred traditions! In this they made all the attempts to trivialize the name of Muhammad(pbuh) and assisted their agents to malign the Prophet- the knighting of Rushdie comes to mind! What they preached in the colonies that Muhammad(pbuh) created this religion on his own with no link to Abrahamic traditions!

All of their attempts have backfired upon them; people are finally waking up from the slumber and want their pristine Islam and the Brits are back attacking the Muslims whether it is Afghanistan or Iraq or Pakistan next, the ME is under their neo colonial grips along with the new Israelites!

·         “My own view is that the Churches should frankly recognise that the majority of the British  people are  not Christians  and,  therefore,  cannot be expected to live Christian livesThere ought to be two distinct kinds of marriage: one governed by the State with rules enforced on all citizens, the other governed by the  Church with rules enforced by her  on her own members. The distinction  ought to be quite sharp,  so that  a man knows which  couples are married in a Christian sense and which are not”

He forgot to add just shacking up!

The Anglican are reverting to Islam in UK willingly tired of their corrupt and immoral drunken lives! particularly the  women folks, you wonder why?

Pay special attention on the red highlighted here and I would like to see what you come up with your understanding!!!)

“Before leaving the question  of divorce, I  should  like to distinguish two things which  are  very often  confused.  The  Christian conception  of marriage  is  one:  the  other  is  the  quite  different  question-now  far Christians,  if  they  are  voters or Members of Parliament, ought to try to force their views of marriage on the rest of the community by embodying them in the  divorce laws.”

When I read the narrative of the section Christian Marriage, I just laughed what was Lewis smoking----Couldn’t he see what was written on the wall and coming down the pike! about the state of marriage in Europe and for that matter even in the states side!

I think quid pro quo  Lewis for Prophet(pbuh) bio is comparing apple with orange!

Let's be honest how  would you justify you marrying  a  "Muhammadan" in which category will fit your scenario in?

 

 



Edited by Sign*Reader - 20 July 2008 at 2:37pm
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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Quote thomasd Replybullet Posted: 21 July 2008 at 7:47pm
It seems you are equating Lewis by default in the same category as Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

no. I am suggesting that he read a scholarly work on the Bible to gain a deeper understanding of it in the same way he is asking me to seek a deeper understanding of the Qur'an.

And the influence of Lewis’s other fiction books created more fiction writers likes of J K Rowling of Harry Potter fame etc And I know our fundamentalist Christian neighbor expressly banned her kids from the Harry Potter readings! I wouldn’t know why! LOL

some Christians don't draw a distinction between the word magic as used in fantasy literature and the practice of communing with evil spirits.

I think, because most of his readers are Christians who buy the book because they are looking for substantiation. They are not searchers of truth. Any writer can capture a sympathetic audience by capitalizing on those areas that everyone " presume " to be right.

C.S. Lewis was writing as an apologist, which by definition means that he was attempting to convince those who weren't Christians of the truth of Christianity through the use of reasoned arguments. He had no interest in "preaching to the choir."

History is filled with examples of what Christians "morality" has done to worsen our lot. Whole cities can be gleefully exterminated in their God's name. Why else were the Christian-dominated centuries called the "Dark" Ages?

because of vacuum of knowledge brought on by the fall of Rome.
I assure you, I mean no offense when I say that this argument can be applied just as easily to Islam. If you have the gall to debate this point further, take the time to read a suitably translated copy of the Hungarian classic "Eclipse of the Crescent Moon," or more recently the atrocities committed by Ottoman forces during World War I. Let us not judge a religion by things that have been done in its name. And I want to make it very clear to you that labeling the dark ages as a Christian dominated era in time is just as offensive to me as I'm sure labeling the attacks on September 11, 2001 an Islam sponsored event is to the users of this forum. Posts like you just made are completely detrimental to efforts of those who try to reconcile God's followers of different religious traditions.

Edited by thomasd - 21 July 2008 at 7:50pm
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Quote Sign*Reader Replybullet Posted: 23 July 2008 at 9:19am
thomasd:
Please continue your comments to the end!
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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Quote thomasd Replybullet Posted: 24 July 2008 at 3:46pm
Originally posted by Sign*Reader

thomasd:Please continue your comments to the end!

huh? that was as much as I had to say...
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Quote thomasd Replybullet Posted: 20 November 2008 at 6:43pm
hello everyone! I just returned from my visitation to the west coast, where I spent 4 of my 6 weeks staying with her family. her uncle, her, and i had several excellent discussions comparing the theologies of Islam and Christianity. they were also kind enough to give me an english translation of the Qur'an as a gift, which will likely lead to some interesting discussions in the topic that seekshidayath was kind enough to start for me. in the meantime I had on question that seemed particularly suited to the discussion in this topic as to whether or not I am a "believer" by Islamic standards.
1) there were several places in the Qur'an (I *think* in the chapter discussing Jesus's family history....I don't remember what it was called), that acknowledged us "people of the book" as believers in God.
2) I have, over the course of the last 2 months, had Islam repeatedly defined to me as nothing more or less than submission to God, something which I strive to achieve (as does anyone who has a true faith in him)
3) I recently read that history shows that Muhammed viewed the Jews and Christians as his natural allies, sharing his core beliefs, and that this was part of the motivation for his move to Medina.


Edited by thomasd - 20 November 2008 at 6:44pm
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