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seekshidayath
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Quote seekshidayath Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2008 at 8:29am
As'Salamu Alaikum
 
JazakiAllahu Khayr sister {Chrysallis}  for correcting me. I was speaking in the context of this situation wherein speaking to non-mahrams in privacy. Hope you shall look into it if it is permitted , and share with us here.
 
You very well see the result right here, of being in privacy. Satan has whispered and she listened to it and now living with unrest and unpeaceful mind.
 
And regarding Isteqarah, i wonder why did you recommend it. If i wish to loot a bank , shud i go for isteqara. Isteqara shud be done in those issues , which are permitted in Islam. There marriage is n't permissible at all.
 
 
 
 


Edited by seekshidayath - 15 July 2008 at 6:38pm
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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Quote thomasd Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2008 at 10:43am
Originally posted by layalee

I still can't help but be confused on how the difference in religious views the two of you carry will allow the unity needed to form a good relationship. Main reason being I was under the impression that you rejected the Prophet Muhammad, but from reading your reply to my post, I'm not sure if that's the case.

because we believe in the same God, and as long as that is the case I will never attempt to dissuade her from worshipping Him or carrying out her religious duties, despite them being different from my own way of worshipping Him. As a Christian, I am taught to pray almost constantly, how then would praying out loud with her 5 times a day, in order to maintain family unity, be in conflict with my own beliefs? I am currently not inclined believe in Mohammed, for various reasons, the discussion of which would derail this topic (but which I am very much open to having later). Let it suffice to say that I am convinced of the truth of Christianity, but also always willing to weigh new evidence and rethink my beliefs in pursuit of truth. And for the sake of unity I will always be willing to join her in any form of worship of the one God that does not conflict with my own beliefs.

Originally posted by seekshidayath



Answer to these situations

After getting married to him, will he allow you to wear Hijab ?
To be in hijab is compulsory  for a muslimah. Will you then say again, i believe in Allah swt, but still love my husband, so i shall forsake my hijab --- ?

He may want you to accompany you to some party and at the other side you may have to miss Zuhr, Asr and Maghrib salah. What will you do ? Remember, even if you offer all the 24 hours and the remaining days of your life any ibadah, you cannot  fulfill the loss you made up by missing one salah.

If  you wish to offer hajj, can  you ? or will you forsake this wish which every muslim heart yearns to fulfill it ?

Like wise there are many aspects wherein, many contradictions may arise.


1) I will NEVER force her to dress in any way that would compromise her beliefs or her modesty. I think you forget that by my beliefs husband and wife are equals, and furthermore I believe that every human being is one of God's image-bearers (he created us in his likeness) and that the right to free will and making your own decisions--good or bad--is inherent to that.

2) Her spiritual needs would be treated with the same urgency as my own, if we must recess from the party, or simply not attend in order to pray, so be it.

3) though making that journey does not carry the same spiritual significance for me that it does for her, there is no reason I can not travel with her. A husband and wife must be as one, why then do you assume that my needs, or in some cases lack thereof, would always take precedence over hers?

Speaking to unrelated/non-mahram males is not a sin in Islam. However, any sort of romantic liasons, correspondence is a sin in Islam. Which means muslims can communicate/speak to members of the oppositte sex, without sinning - as long as they keep romantic interests, and sexuality out of things.

I have noticed in the past, and I notice again, that Muslims and Christians have different understandings of sin. I know that you do not believe in the concept of Original Sin. We (Christians); however, believe that what you call sins are only symptoms of a much deeper underlying problem, which is that since the time of Adam and Eve, humans have been flawed, imperfect beings, missing the mark of what God meant for us. Interestingly the English word sin comes from an old archery term that means quite literally "missing the mark." So everytime we commit a sin, we are simply demonstrating by how much we are missing the mark--hence the need for God's covenant with us in the person of Jesus Christ. From this view you can see God's laws for us falling into 2 separate categories. Thinks we shouldn't do because they denigrate God's glory or other people--God's image bearers, and through our hurt to them we also hurt Him. These are things like murder, lying, stealing, blasphemy, lust, etc. The other sort are His laws that He gave us out of His love for us....laws to protect us from things that might harm us: things that could put our faith in jeopardy, things that could make us sick or hurt us, and things that could harm our mental or emotional health. These are things like warnings against certain foods, marrying outside our own religion, having multiple partners for sex (this actually falls into the other category as well), and other things that would be harmful to us. We do not serve an arbitrary God either, everything he does has a reason behind it, and he always works in our best interests (not necessarily physically, but spiritually). One has only to look at the laws of physics to see this. His warnings against certain foods make perfect sense from a medical standpoint. Every one of those foods mentioned in the old testament was loaded with bacteria and other diseases, that ancient cultures had no of way treating. God didn't just feel like saying "don't eat pigs, I don't want you to." He put that law there because he cares for us, and doesn't want us to suffer as a result of our own foolish decisions. By the same measure, the law against multiple partners makes perfect sense on a biochemical level--strong emotional bonding chemicals are released into your body during sex that are released by no other biological process. To have multiple partners can be very emotionally devastating, because this intense bond, that is only supposed to happen between you and one other person, is tearing you in multiple directions. Our God knows that, and put those laws there to protect us. And finally I come to the warning against marrying outside our own religions. One only has to look at Solomon and the other old testament kings of Israel to see how spiritually seductive and devastating that can be. Yet Solomons wives worshipped different gods. In my case, she and I worship the same God. The one loving, amazing, gracious, omniscient, omnipotent God who created the universe and set the stars in motion. It would be foolish to think that we won't have conflicts, especially since we acknowledge the validity of a different set of prophets. Yet the resolution of each conflict can only lead both of us to seek harder after the truth, and grow closer to God. With this being said, I challenge you to explain to me why our continued relationship, and potential marriage would be sinful. I do not want to be answered by a single verse from the Qur'an or from the Bible. I want you to take that verse and explain how it applies to us in light of God's love for us, and his desire to protect us from harm.
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Quote H3OO Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2008 at 10:43am
well  how many times we listen to such cases of  internet love and its consequences which are before everyones eye  but still we
people dont want to learn from them. everyone has the same replies mine cant be a liar. Marriage with an internet buddy is a faraway thing, i   dont even count such love over internet as love  but just a way of deceiving/fooling ur ownself. anyhow if u still want to proceed ignoring all such cases, i'll proceed as well.

we all know what is GODs verdict on this issye. islam is cleary against such marriages.
when God says something (as he knows everything) there is always a reason behind it. its not
like he just wanted to too so he he added it there is always some logic behind his every saying which
is surely for the betterment of us human beings. He in advance warns us of the negative consequences
of  our actions which he stops us from. ofcourse if such marriages were not harmful he wouldnt have stopped us from
them in the 1st place but since he has, then there must be some reason which ofcourse we know what are they.

 These decisions are mostly  emotional taken in the heat of the moment where one prefers his heart over his brain where one stops thinking and blindly follows where ever his/her heart takes him/her.
i for once  would want u to listen to what ur mind says over the voices inside ur heart.
and think about it. Why did God stop us, will he allow u excerise/fullfill ur religious duties/maintain ur religious beliefs, what will be faith
of ur children, will he let them follow ur faith. will ur inner self be satisfied. do give it a thought.



take this as a test of God that God is testing u that who would u prefer, 'ur love' or 'GODs words'. and
who knows in the future u might think this to be a very good decision  and u might live a very satisfied/good life which (if it happens) will surely be  a reward for passing GODs test.
now take this  as a motivator and fight it off.

and as someone said about isteqara., i guess there is no need for that as we already know of GODs decision.

Edited by H3OO - 15 July 2008 at 11:38am
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layalee
 
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Quote layalee Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2008 at 2:53pm
Originally posted by thomasd

I am currently not inclined believe in Mohammed, for various reasons, the discussion of which would derail this topic (but which I am very much open to having later).




If
the muslimah has dedicated herself to being a slave to Allah(swt) and obeying the Prophet Mohammad (p.b.u.h) then I find it impossible for her to love a man that rejects the last Prophet. I don't believe it's real love nor would I ever believe it's love that Allah (swt) developed between the two of you. It could be alot of other things, but not love.


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Quote thomasd Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2008 at 3:31pm
Originally posted by H3OO


well  how many times we listen to such cases of  internet love and its consequences which are before everyones eye  but still we people dont want to learn from them. everyone has the same replies mine cant be a liar.
Marriage with an internet buddy is a faraway thing, i   dont even count such love over internet as love  but just a way of deceiving/fooling ur ownself. anyhow if u still want to proceed ignoring all such cases, i'll proceed as well.we all know what is GODs verdict on this issye. islam is cleary against such marriages.when God says something (as he knows everything) there is always a reason behind it. its notlike he just wanted to too so he he added it there is always some logic behind his every saying whichis surely for the betterment of us human beings.
...
i for once  would want u to listen to what ur mind says over the voices inside ur heart.and think about it. Why did God stop us, will he allow u excerise/fullfill ur religious duties/maintain ur religious beliefs, what will be faithof ur children, will he let them follow ur faith. will ur inner self be satisfied. do give it a thought.take this as a test of God that God is testing u that who would u prefer, 'ur love' or 'GODs words'. andwho knows in the future u might think this to be a very good decision  and u might live a very satisfied/good life which (if it happens) will surely be  a reward for passing GODs test. now take this  as a motivator and fight it off.and as someone said about isteqara., i guess there is no need for that as we already know of GODs decision.


I feel like you missed out on a lot of this topic, perhaps you should go back re-read it and revise your post? a lot of those points have already been discussed and answered, and I like to hear people's responses to my answers. that being said, I guess I should clarify a couple things. I don't think the original purpose of this topic was to discuss marriage. In our case that is likely to be at least 6 years off. It is however fairly safe to assume, that if our relationship continues that long, that marriage will be the end result.

He in advance warns us of the negative consequencesof  our actions which he stops us from. ofcourse if such marriages were not harmful he wouldnt have stopped us fromthem in the 1st place but since he has, then there must be some reason which ofcourse we know what are they. These decisions are mostly  emotional taken in the heat of the moment where one prefers his heart over his brain where one stops thinking and blindly follows where ever his/her heart takes him/her.

your point is absolutely valid, however I would point out that, at least as I commonly see it defined, planning multiple years into the future would not be considered doing something in the heat of the moment. If then we are still prohibited from such a relationship, there must still be some reason why it is harmful to us. So far I feel like I've done a pretty good job of responding to suggestions of things that could be harmful to us, but if anyone feels that my responses did not adequately cover the possibility, or has another reason in mind, please share, so that through discussion both of us will grow in our thinking, and so that she and I can come to a decision with which we are comfortable.


Originally posted by layalee

If the muslimah has dedicated herself to being a slave to Allah(swt) and
obeying the Prophet Mohammad (p.b.u.h) then I find it impossible for
her to love a man that rejects the last Prophet. I don't believe it's
real love nor would I ever believe it's love that Allah (swt) developed
between the two of you. It could be alot of other things, but not love.

layalee, would you be willing to share your definition of what real love entails, so that we may discover what aspect of that is lacking in our relationship.
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Quote layalee Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2008 at 4:19pm
Thomas we as humans have a tendency of developing our own definitions of what love is. Love can fall under alot of definitions and feelings. But as a Muslim we learn that the love we have for someone is for the sake of Allah(swt). Love never contradicts the teachings and guidance of Allah(swt). So for a muslimah to love a unbeliever in the way that is described contradicts the guidance that Allah (swt) has given us as muslims. It's very challenging to be led back on the right path when one goes astray. But of course Allah(swt) makes all things possible.
Insha'Allah, I hope the sister that started this post will disregard her emotions and think more logical.

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Quote thomasd Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2008 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by layalee

Thomas we as humans have a tendency of developing our own definitions of what love is. Love can fall under alot of definitions and feelings. But as a Muslim we learn that the love we have for someone is for the sake of Allah(swt). Love never contradicts the teachings and guidance of Allah(swt). So for a muslimah to love a unbeliever in the way that is described contradicts the guidance that Allah (swt) has given us as muslims. It's very challenging to be led back on the right path when one goes astray. But of course Allah(swt) makes all things possible. Insha'Allah, I hope the sister that started this post will disregard her emotions and think more logical.


I completely agree with most of that post. However rather than using an interpretation of Allah's will to determine what can and can not be considered love, should we not take the definitions and examples of love he has given to us in his scriptures to clarify when the meanings of his other words are unclear? For you say I am not a believer, yet the description that has been given to me of Allah is quite identical to the description of the God I have been raised to believe in since I was born. And it is my belief in him that leads me to be wary of believing in the one you call the last Prophet. I do not yet reject him, but I haven't yet been shown evidence worthy of matching the evidence that has been presented to me in support of the LORDship of Jesus. Yet since in that one way our scriptures conflict with each other, only one can truly be the word of God. Until the evidence that is presented to me in favor of Muhammad is considerably stronger, I can not logically abandon the faith I have. Both sets of my grandparents, my parents, have of my aunts and uncles have at one time in their life or another been Christian missionaries and/or ministers of the Christian faith, and the physical evidence of an evil power setting itself against their (and other missionaries) spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ, and the physical evidence of God supporting them in their endeavours is nearly insurmountable.

Edited by thomasd - 15 July 2008 at 5:01pm
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seekshidayath
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Quote seekshidayath Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2008 at 6:23pm
Originally posted by peacelovedarfur

" When it is plain and simple that marriage with a DISBELIEVER, is  n't permitted, then why are you going for it ?"

I know what I want to choose but I am still in doubt for I also know what the Islamic doctrine is and being concious of its entire dissagreement it leaves me no peace. But I am not Muslim because I believe Islam is the only way, yes, it is the straighest of paths but Allah(swt) would not be All-Merciful and All-Loving if he ruled the People of the Book out, who are not Unbelievers and fervently worship the one and only Lord of the Universe while taking example from one of the most treasured phrophets of humanity.
 
JazakiAllahu khayr {may Allah swt reward you with goodness}  sister for replying to my post. Perhaps you did not understand my point of explanation. If a person believes in Allah swt, he shud also obey him. Don't you agree to this ?  Just by saying that i believe in one God is n't enough. The belief in only God, shud also be practised. For that let him look into Qur'an which is n't tampered. It is direct word of God, even for him. You must have explained it to him that Qur'an is not just for muslims but for the whole of humanity. When he reads its, he would insha Allah, feel as if God is addressing him.
 
You cited the example of Ibrahim AS in your post. That was good. Why does he not follow him ? Ibrahim AS, obeyed Allah swt in all ways. Likewise, why does he not obey Allah swt. In what way is he following Ibrahim AS ?  Ibrahim AS, was a prophet sent towards his people. Like wise Isaac and Ismaeel  AS{his sons} were prophets. Those people were to have belief in them as prophets. Likewise, people of these times {during and after Prophet Muhammad,Peace be upon him, } are to believe in him and obey him  as Prophet of Allah swt, apart from having belief that all those messenger were sent by Allah swt. Final word, we are to obey Allah swt 's command to obey his messenger - Prophet Muhammad {saws}. You must have come across this verse many a times in the holy Qur'an. "Wa'athiul laha wa'athiur  rasool" - Obey Allah  and obey His messenger.
 
At an other place, Allah swt says , "We sent no Messenger, but to be obeyed   by Allah 's .will."
 meaning, obeying the Prophet was ordained for those to whom Allah sends the Prophet. Allah's statement,
(by Allah's leave) means, "None shall obey, except by My leave,'' according to Mujahid. This Ayah indicates that the Prophets are only obeyed by whomever Allah directs to obedience.
 
And as said earlier, at many places in Qur'an ,Allah swt directs us to obey and follow His final messenger and Prophet.
 
BUt sister, as per Qur'an the final testament, we are to follow and believe in Allah swt and his last messenger. We believe in all the Prophets and messengers of Allah swt sent. But we are to obey Allah swt and His messenger.
 
Yes, those believers of ahle kitab {christians and jews} if unheard of Prophet Muhammad, but believe in one God, then Allah swt , says that they shall be accepted. You must have explained him that the people of scriptures { christians and Jews are doubly rewarded, if they believe in Islam , they shall be doubly rewarded. I think chapter Hadeed discusses that. Go thru its last parts. And here 's a part of the hadith {saying of Prophet Muhammad {pbuh}, - "Three will get their reward twice. A believer from the People of the Scriptures who has been a true believer in his Prophet and then believes in me, will get a double reward".
 
 Your Questions:
-For the hijab, that is my own decision and I have only just recently started wearing last month but I dont know whether I shall wear it permanantly or not-but again that is my decision. 
Sister, to wear hijab is complusory for a muslimah. Does Allah swt not command you to wear hijab ? Your thought to wear it permanently or not, denotes that  --- anyways, sister, please do remember that every act of ours shud be for seeking the pleasure of Allah swt, not to follow our own desires, likes and dislikes. We submit our will to Allah swt is n't it ?  Allah swt has framed a good living for us that is easy to accept and to be followed.
 
-Allah gave us a time frame to pray so we may complete it within that time, I could go seperate room or even pray before I go(arent Arabs at least 2 hours late anyways, what will 5 minutes do?). And why would I miss a Salat ever? It marks all life with its sacred rhytm, and, from dawn to night, brings me before God and prevents me from being submerged in material and worldly concerns.
 
Subhan Allah , very good thoughts sister
 
-Thomas has even expressed want to go with me to Hajj and I would never miss that for anything.
 
But he in this state is n' allowed na ? Before entering into other country, we need that country's visa. Likewise to enter the house of Allah swt , we need to get His visa conditions fulfilled. One and the only comdition is, he shud be a muslim to offer his Hajj.
 
Hajj being our journey back to the centre, the ocus of Islamic Unity to walk amoung and with my ummah.Inshallah, that will be my parents graduation present for me :)
 
Insha Allah, If Allah swt wills . And Allah knows the best.
 
admin: the font was too small, has been rezized
 
Sister, can't you wait for few more years. It seems to me by reading his posts that he has got many misconceptions about Islam. Let him study Islam once again. Let him start up threads of discussions about his doubts. Do you think that you will have peace of mind, if you marry him in this state ? No ! sister., since the thought shall always prick you that you are living illegally, going against the commands of Allah swt. Anyways, let him start up studying Qura'an not for your sake but with the intention to read the word of Allah, whom he believes in, ;Let him look into it as what Allah swt is addressing him .
 
Sister, you must be knowing very well that the only religion accepted before Allah swt, is Islam, rest all disbelivers are headed towards hell. If you truly love him, then try to convey him the right message. You may not tolerate if i abuse him while discussions. { Allah swt forbid, am not so}, suppose if i do so, Will you not get hurted or feel bad ? How will you look this into hereafter, when disbelievers are dragged in hell. So sister, try your best to convey the true message of Islam to him. Not just him, but to all those around you who are disbelievers.
 
Allah swt is Merciful. He shall fogive those to whom either this message was n't conveyed or conveyed in a wrong way --{He is the best judge},  but tothose who donot believe and obey His message,  hell is there destination.
 
A mother loves her child very much. But will she not punish him , if he  disobeys her. Just by saying that since she loves the child, and child also loves her, does n;t stop her to punish her son if he is disobeying. Allah swt knows the best
 
 


Edited by icforumadmin - 16 July 2008 at 10:24pm
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