IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: A muslimah in frustration

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Nausheen
Female Islam
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Posted: 10 July 2008 at 9:24pm

Is that your hobby? - Hijacking thread's At least you shldn't have done that in women's section ...

It is believed in Islam that Allah took a covanant from all souls after creating them - this is before they come to the realm of this world. Thus all of us are already under this covanant as soon as the soul is breathed into the body - this event takes place at 120 days of gestation.

Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.

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Shasta'sAunt
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Posted: 11 July 2008 at 12:04am

Originally posted by Ron Webb

This really is getting us nowhere and I don't want hijack the discussion, but let me try just once more. How can one be said to submit to God's will if one doesn't have a choice? Surely submission is a choice, i.e. a voluntary subordination of one's own will to God's.

Yes, newborn infants are forced to choose as they emerge from the womb.

“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt

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Chrysalis

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Posted: 11 July 2008 at 12:49am

This means that a human-bieng has a natural inclination in him/her to believe in a higher-power and Diety, and knows that a Superior bieng exists, even without bieng told to. And there is a natural inclination towards believing in God/Allah.

It is external factors that turn a person into an Athiest etc. And the foremost aspect of Islam is believeing in ONE Supreme bieng, Allah. That is wht muslims mean when they say that all babies are born as Muslims. A baby is not aware of Islamic injunctions and Shariah.

Also, I woudnt have a problem believing that Allah makes a covenant with us before birth, because we never remember anything that happens in the womb, and forget everything about our birth anyway! So who am I to say what happened/ or did not in the womb? Since I dont remember/know anything from that time. Or before conception/after it.

"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."

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Ron Webb
Male Humanism
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Posted: 11 July 2008 at 10:12am

Originally posted by Nausheen

Is that your hobby? - Hijacking thread's At least you shldn't have done that in women's section ...

I had forgotten that this discussion was in the Women's section. My apologies.

Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.

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Shasta'sAunt
Female Islam
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Posted: 12 July 2008 at 11:32am

Originally posted by Chrysalis

We believe babies are born completely innocent and free of sin. They remain so until they are able to comprehend right from wrong and reach an age of accountability.

It is outside influence that cause them to turn one way or another.

A for submission without choice, babies also submit to the will of their parents, their caregivers, older siblings, in a more physical sense without choosing to do so. They are helpless infants....

“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt

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Author	Message
Nausheen Female Islam Senior Member Senior Member Joined: 10 January 2001 Location: Japan Online Status: Offline Posts: 4146	Posted: 10 July 2008 at 9:24pm
	Is that your hobby? - Hijacking thread's At least you shldn't have done that in women's section ... It is believed in Islam that Allah took a covanant from all souls after creating them - this is before they come to the realm of this world. Thus all of us are already under this covanant as soon as the soul is breathed into the body - this event takes place at 120 days of gestation.
	Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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Shasta'sAunt Female Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1930	Posted: 11 July 2008 at 12:04am
	*Originally posted by Ron Webb* This really is getting us nowhere and I don't want hijack the discussion, but let me try just once more. How can one be said to submit to God's will if one doesn't have a choice? Surely submission is a choice, i.e. a voluntary subordination of one's own will to God's. Yes, newborn infants are forced to choose as they emerge from the womb.
	“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.” Eleanor Roosevelt
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Chrysalis Senior Member Joined: 25 November 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2031	Posted: 11 July 2008 at 12:49am
	*Originally posted by Ron Webb* This really is getting us nowhere and I don't want hijack the discussion, but let me try just once more. How can one be said to submit to God's will if one doesn't have a choice? Surely submission is a choice, i.e. a voluntary subordination of one's own will to God's. This means that a human-bieng has a natural inclination in him/her to believe in a higher-power and Diety, and knows that a Superior bieng exists, even without bieng told to. And there is a natural inclination towards believing in God/Allah. It is external factors that turn a person into an Athiest etc. And the foremost aspect of Islam is believeing in ONE Supreme bieng, Allah. That is wht muslims mean when they say that all babies are born as Muslims. A baby is not aware of Islamic injunctions and Shariah. Also, I woudnt have a problem believing that Allah makes a covenant with us before birth, because we never remember anything that happens in the womb, and forget everything about our birth anyway! So who am I to say what happened/ or did not in the womb? Since I dont remember/know anything from that time. Or before conception/after it.
	"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Ron Webb Male Humanism Senior Member Joined: 30 January 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1408	Posted: 11 July 2008 at 10:12am
	*Originally posted by Nausheen* Is that your hobby? - Hijacking thread's At least you shldn't have done that in women's section ... I had forgotten that this discussion was in the Women's section. My apologies.
	Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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Shasta'sAunt Female Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1930	Posted: 12 July 2008 at 11:32am
	*Originally posted by Chrysalis* *Originally posted by Ron Webb* This really is getting us nowhere and I don't want hijack the discussion, but let me try just once more. How can one be said to submit to God's will if one doesn't have a choice? Surely submission is a choice, i.e. a voluntary subordination of one's own will to God's. This means that a human-bieng has a natural inclination in him/her to believe in a higher-power and Diety, and knows that a Superior bieng exists, even without bieng told to. And there is a natural inclination towards believing in God/Allah. It is external factors that turn a person into an Athiest etc. And the foremost aspect of Islam is believeing in ONE Supreme bieng, Allah. That is wht muslims mean when they say that all babies are born as Muslims. A baby is not aware of Islamic injunctions and Shariah. Also, I woudnt have a problem believing that Allah makes a covenant with us before birth, because we never remember anything that happens in the womb, and forget everything about our birth anyway! So who am I to say what happened/ or did not in the womb? Since I dont remember/know anything from that time. Or before conception/after it. We believe babies are born completely innocent and free of sin. They remain so until they are able to comprehend right from wrong and reach an age of accountability. It is outside influence that cause them to turn one way or another. A for submission without choice, babies also submit to the will of their parents, their caregivers, older siblings, in a more physical sense without choosing to do so. They are helpless infants....
	“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.” Eleanor Roosevelt
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