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Groups – Women (Sisters)
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Culture & Community : Groups – Women (Sisters)
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Chrysalis
 
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Quote Chrysalis Replybullet Posted: 04 July 2008 at 5:44am
Originally posted by Israfil

Chrysalis you said:
 
Temptation stems from the Male...
 
So are women immune to temptation? Or we (men) just hormonal creatures?
 
Israfil. . . I completley agree that BOTH men AND women are EQUALLY prone to temptations. . . however I was referring to the case where ppl say that women should not venture out because it causes temptations. Hence I was saying, if the male is tempted. . .the woman is not at fault, bcz the man is the one responsible for his own temptations
 
Thats what I meant when I said that temptations stem from the male when they look at a woman. .  .hence its thier fault, and not the woman's . . .thus they should worry about controlling thier own actions and stop worrying about why women are venturing out.
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 04 July 2008 at 1:41pm

S.A.

Well the sarcasm wasn't obviously funny nor was it "obviously sarcasm" use emotes *hint *hint. Besides you're slowness was obvious by the fact that the comment wasn't even generated totally to you.....notice I said (Chrysalis).
 
it is written in The Quran, therefore the Word of God.
 
Then if I'm wrong about my view God obviously know why I choose my beliefs the way I do.
 
 
Thats what I meant when I said that temptations
 
Chrysalis perhaps I can convince you to say "some men" instead of using the general term of 'men' since some men aren't the cause of temptations rather, women too can only cause them as well.
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Shasta'sAunt
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Quote Shasta'sAunt Replybullet Posted: 04 July 2008 at 4:34pm

"S.A.

Well the sarcasm wasn't obviously funny nor was it "obviously sarcasm" use emotes *hint *hint. Besides you're slowness was obvious by the fact that the comment wasn't even generated totally to you.....notice I said (Chrysalis)."
 
You seem to be the only one who took it seriously or I would have been inundated by rebuttals by now. 
 
The sarcastic element was the fact that I called women brainless ninnies after having argued throughout three threads that they are anything but.  If I ever have occasion to share a sarcastic aside with you again I will put a complete explanation in parenthesis in tiny little letters*.
 
*(That was sarcasm)
 
BTW: the Go Boston was sarcasm too.


Edited by Shasta'sAunt - 04 July 2008 at 4:37pm
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt
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Shasta'sAunt
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Quote Shasta'sAunt Replybullet Posted: 04 July 2008 at 4:36pm
Originally posted by abuayisha

Originally posted by Hayfa

Women are weaker than men in memory and forget more than men. 

 
  Why is it that my wife is able to reproach me with vivid details of some problem I caused her 15 years ago as if it were yesterday?
 
My husband can't remember what we had for dinner last night or where he put his keys, his wallet, where the silverware is in the kitchen, etc....
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt
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seekshidayath
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Quote seekshidayath Replybullet Posted: 04 July 2008 at 6:14pm
Hahahaa ! but sisters, don't be under misconception, that they don't remember dates. Men, forget those important days intentionally Smile.
 
Regarding  temptation - here's a hadith
 
Before that let me remind you all, that Allah swt , created man in a world of tests and trials. One of the fitnahs, by which men are tested are women. ANd here is the sahih hadith
 
"Prophet { Sallal lahu alayhi wasallam) said: “I have not left behind me any fitnah (temptation) more harmful to men than women.”
 
So did i state that  they are cause of temptation. When she wears hijab its less.  I have a question for you all ? If mixing is allowed in Islam, and if  both were equal - then why are women to stand in the last rows during salah ? WHy was it not said, stand wherever, they can ?
 
Alhmadullilah, there are many women in Islam who memorise Qur'an. The qualities of women which are little less than men { cleared in my earlier post}, like forgetfulness,  and all others, are natural and general. There may be exceptions that we find a wife stronger than her husband {physically}, like wise in all other cases, they may overcome man, but its rare and is an exception.
 
Why is it said that we need two witnesses instead of one, and why is it asked for a woman to remind the other ?
 
Here's an observation - WHenever there is a fight or difference between a husband and a wife, its the wife who returns first to reconcile {says sorry} , even if she is correct. She forgets all  that happened and soon overcomes from that stress that  happened earlier.
 
Anyways, sister in US, i have an humble wish. Hope you shall try to meet it. You know IFOD - Islamic Foundation  for curicullum in resenent and Development. Try to meet its founder - Amena. I don't know her full name.
 
Yesterday, i did read her story into Islam. Its many years ago that she was blessed with it. She is a very good daee. She works for the spread of Islam  moving all around the places in US, kindly, try to meet her. I have no clue where she resides. Its not mentioned here. But yes, she says that she was born in Los Angels and moved to Florida. 100s of women entered into folds of Islam after meeting her, Alhamdullilah. She is now well - verses in Arabic, and studies Qur'an with different commentaries. She delivers her speeches over radio and tV  as well. Kindly meet her once, and discuss to her of this topic, we are into. She views the same as i do Smile
Try to associate with her dawah institute and work for the spread of Islam there. I do  now understand as why its tough for you all to agree with. khayr --
 


Edited by seekshidayath - 04 July 2008 at 7:19pm
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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Hayfa
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Quote Hayfa Replybullet Posted: 04 July 2008 at 7:53pm

So you think it is rare for women to have better memories then men??  As the following scientific articles point out.. there are different types of memory. And women excel in certain areas.. and men in others. Read about gender differences in memory.

 

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2294/is_2002_Dec/ai_98125314

 

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/98144.php

 

The whole issue with finance and having a friend is that men rule the money world. If you are not typically in the "men"s world then you are less likely to be treated as correctly. And clearly some will take advanctage of you. It is like many other areas.. done for the protection of women. Cause there are unscrupulous people out there. Best to have a witness. Or as they do nowadays.. put it in writing.

 

If there are any studies that universally say that women re weaker in memory bring it forth.

 

Whenever there is a fight or difference between a husband and a wife, its the wife who returns first to reconcile {says sorry} , even if she is correct. She forgets all that happened and soon overcomes from that stress that  happened earlier.

 
No way.. women remember everything.. and trust me..  you can think that.. but we women know and don’t forget. Wink 
 

Alhmadullilah, there are many women in Islam who memorise Qur'an. The qualities of women which are little less than men {cleared in my earlier post}, like forgetfulness, and all others, are natural and general.

 

Where is the proof?? How do you make that assumption. Considering that men have better education in much of the Muslim world the pool of people to choose from for women is limited. Its like if women are given same opportunities as men they often outperform men in many areas.  You can see that in western society. Women are outnumbering men in law and medical schools. The men are not able to keep up academically with women now that women have same access to education.   If you gave 1000 men and 1000 women the same training and access then you can compare.  You'd have to do a controlled measured study to make this more then just perception.

When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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seekshidayath
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Quote seekshidayath Replybullet Posted: 04 July 2008 at 10:40pm
 
But you did not answer my two questions. Those lines of my post which were highlighted were my opinions, which i did not present with Quran and sunnah.
 
WHy are women to stand in last rows while is salah ? WHats the wisdom behind that ? Why don't you now say, even we are equal, mixing allowed -- why shud we stand behind. When you don't spread fitnah, and when you are in hijab, why don't you stand amongst men. WHy are you limiting Islam only till salah ? Why  do you not follow in other matters of life too. Culture can be changed. It is we who make the culture and break it.
 
Why are two witnesses of women equated to men.
 
Why is it then said that , if you forget let the other woman remind her ? WHy is it not said to man ? Why women are specifically mentioned.
 
Don't forget that we cannot change these rules of Islam for sake of culture. When we submit ourselves to Allah swt, we are to follow His rules.
 
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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abuayisha
 
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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 04 July 2008 at 11:00pm
Originally posted by seekshidayath

 
Why is it said that we need two witnesses instead of one, and why is it asked for a woman to remind the other ? 
 

The Qur'anic verse known as "verse of indebtedness" in which Allah prescribes writing debt contracts as a precautionary measure is: (O ye who believe! When ye deal with each other, in transactions involving future obligations in a fixed period of time, reduce them to writing. Let a scribe write down faithfully as between the parties: let not the scribe refuse to write: as Allah Has taught him, so let him write. Let him who incurs the liability dictate, but let him fear His Lord Allah, and not diminish aught of what he owes. If they party liable is mentally deficient, or weak, or unable Himself to dictate, let his guardian dictate faithfully, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her.) (Al-Baqarah 2:282)

 

The reason for variations in the number of male and female witnesses required is given in the same passage. No reference is made to the inferiority or superiority of one gender's witness or the other's. The only reason given is to corroborate the female's witness and prevent unintended errors in the perception of the business deal. The Arabic term used in this passage, tadhilla, literally means "loses the way," "gets confused," or "errs." But are females the only gender that may err and need corroboration of their testimony? Definitely not, and that is why the general rule of testimony in Islamic law is to have two witnesses, even when they are both male.

One possible interpretation of the requirements related to this particular type of testimony is that in numerous societies, past and present, women generally may not be heavily involved with and experienced in business transactions. As such, they may not be completely cognizant of what is involved. Therefore, corroboration of a woman's testimony by another woman who may be present ascertains accuracy and, hence, justice. It would be unreasonable to interpret this requirement as a reflection on the worth of women's testimony, as it is the only exception discerned from the text of the Qur'an. This may be one reason why a great scholar like At-Tabari could not find any evidence from any primary text (Qur'an or hadith) to exclude women from something more important than testimony: being herself a judge who hears and evaluates the testimony of others.

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