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Groups – Women (Sisters)
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Culture & Community : Groups – Women (Sisters)
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seekshidayath
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Quote seekshidayath Replybullet Posted: 05 July 2008 at 2:38am
 
JazakAllah for your response brother

I don't say, anyone of them are  superior or inferior. But the distribution of responsiblities vary between men and women. They are n't distributed equally. Anyways, i shall not comment over your post right now. Am waiting for an other question to be answered.

Why are women to stand last in the rows while offering salah ?

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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abuayisha
 
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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 05 July 2008 at 5:22am
Originally posted by seekshidayath

   
WHy are women to stand in last rows while is salah ? WHats the wisdom behind that ? Why don't you now say, even we are equal, mixing allowed -- why shud we stand behind.  
 

Every row of performing salat is good, however unnecessary mixing is undesirable, thus we find the best row for men is the front and the best for women is the back.

 

      Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "The best of the men's rows (in Salat) is the first row and the worst is the last; but the best of the woman's row is the last and the worst of their rows is the first.''
[Muslim].

 

  Ali Ibn Abi Taalib once remarked:

     “If the religion was according to opinion, it would be more fitting to wipe the bottom of the sock, rather than the top. Surely, I saw Allah’s Messenger (P.B.U.H) wiping over the tops of his socks.” (Abu Dawud and Ad-Daraqutni).

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Chrysalis
 
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Quote Chrysalis Replybullet Posted: 05 July 2008 at 8:32am
Originally posted by Israfil

Chrysalis perhaps I can convince you to say "some men" instead of using the general term of 'men' since some men aren't the cause of temptations rather, women too can only cause them as well.

 
Smile Indeed I was referring to only those men who are weak enough to get 'tempted' when they see woman in the workplace/outside her home. And yes, both men and women are equally prone to/ are the cause of temptations. . . that was I initially meant. Perhaps I couldnt xplain myself tht well.
 
Btw, with refernce to Shasta's post . . . though I agree with everything else, I dont believe that on a whole the nature of both men & women is equal/the same.
 
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Ron Webb
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 05 July 2008 at 8:53am

Originally posted by Hayfa

If there are any studies that universally say that women re weaker in memory bring it forth.

I did a quick Google search ("men women memory studies") and it looks like women have better memories than men for most things.  Here is a typical study:

Sex Differences In Memory: Women Better Than Men At Remembering Everyday Events

...

Psychologists Agneta Herlitz and Jenny Rehnman in Stockholm, Sweden asked an even more complicated question of human predisposition: Does one’s sex influence his or her ability to remember every day events? Their surprising findings did in fact determine significant sex differences in episodic memory, a type of long-term memory based on personal experiences, favoring women.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080220104244.htm



Edited by Ron Webb - 05 July 2008 at 8:55am
Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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Chrysalis
 
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Quote Chrysalis Replybullet Posted: 05 July 2008 at 8:54am
Originally posted by seekshidayath

 
But you did not answer my two questions. 
 
WHy are women to stand in last rows while is salah ? WHats the wisdom behind that ? .
 
Why are two witnesses of women equated to men.
 
 
 
Not even a minimally knowledgable Muslim will say that the above aspects of Islam & Qur'an are wrong. HOWEVER they can disagree with the logic people invent in order to explain the injunctions. And though I happily accept Allah's injunctions, I do not and will not accept the reason you and some other muslims put forward to explain this.
 
The above injunctions in no way imply that women are mentally deficient to men. Both have been blessed with EQUAL yet different natural tendencies/capabilities. Yet there are still some men & women out there that defy the natural tendencies and are exceptional/different.
 
As for why women pray behing men i.e. in the last rows. . .does not mean that they are inferior etc. It is so the mosque remains a place where the focus strictly remains on Allah & worship. Not the oppositte gender. Also like I mentioned in an earlier post, women pray in the last rows, for thier own convenience of the hijab. So that men do not ogle at them while they are engrossed in worship, or body parts are in plain view. ETC
 
As for the ayah that refers to two female witnesses. The verse is referring to financial transactions, like Brother Abuaisha so correctly mentioned. Btw, one can look up completely non-religous researches that show that male-female minds function differently when it somes to subjects like maths, language, science etc etc.
Whatver country you may go to, you will still find that the more men are in the financial fields, and have more business/financial experience on a whole. Thus when it comes to witnesses, there is an exception in the number of witnesses.
 
HOWEVER in non-financial transactions, even during Prophet Muhammad's time, on many a times, a single woman's testomony was accepted. Especially since in many cases, only women are present and thus only they can be a witness - especially when it comes to cases pertaining to family affairs etc.
 
The Prophet cancelled a nikah from taking place bcz a woman stood up and said that she had breastfed both the prospective bride & groom as kids. . . (as a wet-nurse) thus both became related. I can also quote other examples later. . . as well as references.
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Shasta'sAunt
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Quote Shasta'sAunt Replybullet Posted: 05 July 2008 at 10:00am

When witnesses are needed regarding other aspects such as committing zina, theft, rape, the number of witnesses remains the same whether men or women.  In the case of zina or rape in which the penalty would be death, why didn't Allah demand double the number of female witnesses? This is a far more serious matter than indebtedness.

I don't think anyone has said that men and women are not different. I think what we are saying is that they are equal.  Equal does not mean identical. Equal means like in quality, nature, or status.  What I have been saying is that nowhere in the Quran does is state that men and women are not equal except where it comes to maintenance which is an obligation from Allah upon men.  The Quran clearly states that men and women are like in quality, nature and status:
 
4:1 O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, His mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women;- reverence Allah, through whom ye demand your mutual (rights), and (reverence) the wombs (That bore you): for Allah ever watches over you.
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt
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Chrysalis
 
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Quote Chrysalis Replybullet Posted: 06 July 2008 at 2:05am
Originally posted by Chrysalis

Originally posted by seekshidayath

 
But you did not answer my two questions. 
 
WHy are women to stand in last rows while is salah ? WHats the wisdom behind that ? .
 
 
  
As for why women pray behing men i.e. in the last rows. . .does not mean that they are inferior etc. It is so the mosque remains a place where the focus strictly remains on Allah & worship. Not the oppositte gender. Also like I mentioned in an earlier post, women pray in the last rows, for thier own convenience of the hijab. So that men do not ogle at them while they are engrossed in worship, or body parts are in plain view. ETC
 
 
 
From a previous post: When you are in a congregation, there are all sorts of ppl in them . . good, bad, perverts, etc etc. During prayers, one has to go thru various positions, bending over, bowing down etc, this may expose parts of the body or make them look obvious. . . you cannot ensure that the men behind the women do not leer at her or, or lose the purpose of the prayer.
 
Women also have a certain amount of privacy at the back . . . they may want to breastfeed a child, adjust the hijab etc. Some women observe the Niqaab, and have to remove it for prayers, thus they too need to be at the back as well.
 
Just because a person is at the front, and another is at the back, does not denote inferiority. You can use the same analogy for the Imam of the prayer and the Jamaat. .  .one can use that logic to say that the people standing behind the Imam are inferior to him?!? No. The placements of the Jamaat have nothing to do with inferiority/supererioty etc.
 
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Nausheen
 
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Quote Nausheen Replybullet Posted: 08 July 2008 at 12:02am

Not sure what this thread is exactly about ... but there are no barriers to which thoughts can go, so lets flow by the trend :0)

I simply dont understand how someone who stays at home has become "inferior". Can anyone explain that, please.
 
Also to Hayfa ... if you may please take the time to carefully read on various strings regarding the topic of working women, nowhere it has been stated that you should be confined to your home when there is a genuine need to go and earn.
of course the whole discussion is about working because of the "work culture" rather for any specific need.
 
SH:: I commend your himmah on this topic. Just know that the forums are to exchange and not to change opinions. In other words you wont be able to change anyone's thinking even if you were to exhaust yourself to eternity.
 
I remember debating with a brother on these very forums - and might I add - endlessly - about women's education. He said there is no need for women to go to schools and colleges and they can serve as very good mothers even without any formal education.
 
Today, I still don't agree with the first part of that debate ... ie the "no need of any education" concept, but over the time my view of a "good mother" has changed to the point that I do believe uneducated (in secular sciences) mothers can do a great job bringing up children. At least I know my grandmother who knows only Urdu as a language of communication, and besides that she can read arabic. But she is a wonderful muslima and has been a wonderful mother -and a wonderful grandmother.   -- so people's views change in time, but they certainly don't change by reading a long post on IC forums -  so, my advice to you, and I pray you don't burn yourself over the matter.
 


Edited by Nausheen - 08 July 2008 at 12:03am
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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