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robin
 
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Quote robin Replybullet Topic: Jesus Christ was and is a Jehovah’s Witne
    Posted: 19 June 2008 at 10:16am

According to God’s Word The Holy Bible Jesus Christ was and is a Jehovah’s Witness?

 

We can first look at the following texts:-

Isaiah 43:10 "YOU [The Israelites nation] are my witnesses," is the utterance of Jehovah, "even my servant [The Israelites nation collectively] whom I have chosen, in order that YOU may know and have faith in me, and that YOU may understand that I am the same One.


Isaiah 43:12 "I myself have told forth and have saved and have caused [it] to be heard, when there was among YOU no strange [god]. So YOU [The Israelites nation] are my witnesses," is the utterance of Jehovah, "and I am God..


Jesus Christ was a member of the the Israelite nation whom God called “my witnesses” and as we will see The Almighty God of the Israelites is called Jehovah, thus making the Israelites nation ‘Jehovah's Witness’ according to the above texts (and the following) from The Holy Bible. Of Jesus being a JW we can glen support form the Greek Texts (N.T.):-

Revelation 1:5 "Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness."

Revelation 3:14 “And to the angel of the congregation in Laodicea write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God,”

So Jesus was a witness to what? The following words of Jesus are a help to find out.

John 17:1 “Jesus spoke these things, and, raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come; glorify your son, that your son may glorify you,”

John 17:3 “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.


“The Father” is a God who has a name that will be made known:-


John 17:6““I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word.


John 17:26““And I have made your name known to them and will make it known, in order that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them.”“


Is The “Father” name God? Well, what else did Jesus have to say on this matter, we can go to the first phrase from the ‘Lord’s Prayer’:-


Matthew 6:9 ““‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified (“Hallowed” KJV).””

And here:-

Matthew 28:19 “Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit.”


What is God The Father’s Personal Name?

Psalm 83:18 “That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the Most High over all the earth.” See the K.J.V.

and

Exodus 3:15  ““This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel,* ‘Jehovah the God of YOUR forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, has sent me to YOU.’ This is my name to time indefinite (“for ever” K.J.V.; “forever” N.I.V.), and this is the memorial of me to generation after generation.
*Including Jesus as an Israelite and a descendant of Israel.

Thus Jesus manifested God’s personal name and brought the Greatest honor to it by Witnessing about it and the person who bears that Name, Almighty God Jehovah, His Creator/Father and God.

 

As Jesus made known God’s personal name –Jehovah- he did as his Father’s means of glorifying it, as an obedient son:-

 

John 12:28

“Father, glorify your name.” Therefore a voice came out of heaven: “I both glorified [it] and will glorify [it] again.””

 

See Matt. 6:

 

Notice Jesus said “YOUR NAME” which is Jehovah (Latinised form) or Yahweh (Hebraic form), they both obviously meant as recorded in the Hebrew Scriptures (O.T.), as the Christian Greek Scriptures (N.T.) had not at that time been penned”

 

This does not mean that he was talking about the Title “The LORD” which is not a name, but as recorded at:-

 

Psalm 83:18

“That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, You alone are the Most High over all the earth.”

 

So here we see calling The Father “Jehovah” has His personal blessing as it did with Jesus Christ.

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mariyah
 
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Quote mariyah Replybullet Posted: 20 June 2008 at 2:57pm

LOL

No offense, but this is a bit hard to swallow. Jesus was not a Christian such  as a Jehovahs witness is. Can a man follow himself? Jesus was born in the Hebrew tribe of Judah and his mother according to your bible was of the Levite/Judah lineage. He is the promised Hebrew Messiah, the messenger to the descendants of Isaac.
Do you have any copies of pre constantine scriptures? 
"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.
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Quote believer Replybullet Posted: 20 June 2008 at 6:54pm
http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/constantine.htm
Constantine, a fourth century emperor, wasn't born soon enough to have any impact on the writing of the New Testament. The New Testament was written during the first century, the century during which Jesus lived. Constantine lived during the fourth century.

Nonetheless, the claims of this nature have been around for a long time and were popularized by the novel, The Da Vinci Code, which became a bestseller after it was published in 2003, and a movie in 2006.

The novel essentially claims that Constantine convened a council at Nicea, created the New Testament, and had it canonized. These claims are essential to the plot in The Da Vinci Code because the novel claims that the so-called "Gnostic gospels" were the original Christian documents and Constantine replaced them with the New Testament.

The historical facts, however, show that the New Testament was written during the first century and that the Gnostic gospels were written centuries later, by non-Christians who were trying to imitate Christianity because of its popularity.

Based on writings from early church leaders, including documents dated from the year 96 through the year 112, at least 24 of the 27 books that comprise the New Testament were already regarded by early Christians as being authoritative, a full 200 years before Constantine convened the Council of Nicea.

And, the Council of Nicea didn't canonize anything. The canonization process actually occurred a full 70 years later, on a different continent (Africa). And it should be understood that the process of canonization wasn't intended to "create" or "construct" a New Testament, but to reaffirm the books that for centuries had already been acknowledged as authoritative by Christians.

In addition, there were several writings by early church leaders, who lived long before Constantine was born, that quote, paraphrase and expound upon all or virtually all of the passages found in the New Testament. In fact, some scholars say that one could reconstruct the New Testament from these early writings by church leaders. Here are a few examples:

" . . . as I possessed all the existing works of the Fathers of the second and third centuries, I commenced to search, and up to this time I have found the entire New Testament, except eleven verses." - "Our Bible: How We Got It," Charles Leach, Chicago, Moody Press, 1898, pages 35-36.

"Indeed, so extensive are these citations that if all other sources for our knowledge of the text of the New Testament were destroyed, they would be sufficient alone for the reconstruction of practically the entire New Testament." - "The Text of the New Testament," Bruce Metzger, New York and Oxford, Oxford University Press, 1969, page 86.

The fundamental beliefs of Christianity, including its message that Jesus was fully man and fully God, that he is the Son of God, that he is divine, etc., are part of the historical record that pre-dates the time of Constantine, by a few centuries.

Also, the novel is incorrect in claiming that Constantine made Christianity the official religion of his empire. He didn't. Instead, he made it illegal for pagans within his realm to continue persecuting Christians.


Edited by believer - 20 June 2008 at 6:55pm
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Quote robin Replybullet Posted: 22 June 2008 at 8:15am
Originally posted by mariyah

LOL

No offense, but this is a bit hard to swallow. Jesus was not a Christian such  as a Jehovahs witness is. Can a man follow himself? Jesus was born in the Hebrew tribe of Judah and his mother according to your bible was of the Levite/Judah lineage. He is the promised Hebrew Messiah, the messenger to the descendants of Isaac.
Do you have any copies of pre constantine scriptures? 
 
He did not follow himself, he is not God, he taught others to follow Jehovah God!
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robin
 
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Quote robin Replybullet Posted: 22 June 2008 at 8:17am
Originally posted by believer

http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/constantine.htm
Constantine, a fourth century emperor, wasn't born soon enough to have any impact on the writing of the New Testament. The New Testament was written during the first century, the century during which Jesus lived. Constantine lived during the fourth century.

Nonetheless, the claims of this nature have been around for a long time and were popularized by the novel, The Da Vinci Code, which became a bestseller after it was published in 2003, and a movie in 2006.

The novel essentially claims that Constantine convened a council at Nicea, created the New Testament, and had it canonized. These claims are essential to the plot in The Da Vinci Code because the novel claims that the so-called "Gnostic gospels" were the original Christian documents and Constantine replaced them with the New Testament.

The historical facts, however, show that the New Testament was written during the first century and that the Gnostic gospels were written centuries later, by non-Christians who were trying to imitate Christianity because of its popularity.

Based on writings from early church leaders, including documents dated from the year 96 through the year 112, at least 24 of the 27 books that comprise the New Testament were already regarded by early Christians as being authoritative, a full 200 years before Constantine convened the Council of Nicea.

And, the Council of Nicea didn't canonize anything. The canonization process actually occurred a full 70 years later, on a different continent (Africa). And it should be understood that the process of canonization wasn't intended to "create" or "construct" a New Testament, but to reaffirm the books that for centuries had already been acknowledged as authoritative by Christians.

In addition, there were several writings by early church leaders, who lived long before Constantine was born, that quote, paraphrase and expound upon all or virtually all of the passages found in the New Testament. In fact, some scholars say that one could reconstruct the New Testament from these early writings by church leaders. Here are a few examples:

" . . . as I possessed all the existing works of the Fathers of the second and third centuries, I commenced to search, and up to this time I have found the entire New Testament, except eleven verses." - "Our Bible: How We Got It," Charles Leach, Chicago, Moody Press, 1898, pages 35-36.

"Indeed, so extensive are these citations that if all other sources for our knowledge of the text of the New Testament were destroyed, they would be sufficient alone for the reconstruction of practically the entire New Testament." - "The Text of the New Testament," Bruce Metzger, New York and Oxford, Oxford University Press, 1969, page 86.

The fundamental beliefs of Christianity, including its message that Jesus was fully man and fully God, that he is the Son of God, that he is divine, etc., are part of the historical record that pre-dates the time of Constantine, by a few centuries.

Also, the novel is incorrect in claiming that Constantine made Christianity the official religion of his empire. He didn't. Instead, he made it illegal for pagans within his realm to continue persecuting Christians.
 
 
1
Constantine was NOT a Christian!
 
2
Jesus was/is NOT God!
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Quote mariyah Replybullet Posted: 22 June 2008 at 12:43pm
Geek 
Copy and paste, copy and paste, Does it occur to you Christians that we accept only the Injeel and torah (and psalms and proverbs)in uncorrupted form and  not the writings of the Roman and greek inspired Paul and his cronies? And the Qur'an, of course!
 
 
From the Qu'ran translation by Yusuf Ali:
 

Al-Baqara (The Cow)

2:143 Thus, have We made of you an Ummat justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Messenger a witness over yourselves; and We appointed the Qibla to which thou wast used, only to test those who followed the Messenger from those who would turn on their heels (From the Faith). Indeed it was (A change) momentous, except to those guided by Allah. And never would Allah Make your faith of no effect. For Allah is to all people Most surely full of kindness, Most Merciful.

Yes you are people of the Book, and you have witnessed the truth of many things!
 
3:70 Ye People of the Book! Why reject ye the Signs of Allah, of which ye are (Yourselves) witnesses?
 
4:69 All who obey Allah and the apostle are in the company of those on whom is the Grace of Allah,- of the prophets (who teach), the sincere (lovers of Truth), the witnesses (who testify), and the Righteous (who do good): Ah! what a beautiful fellowship! -
 
4:135 O ye who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest ye swerve, and if ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well- acquainted with all that ye do. -
 
5:8 O ye who believe! stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do.
 
:44 It was We who revealed the law (to Moses): therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed (as in Islam) to Allah's will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law: for to them was entrusted the protection of Allah's book, and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear me, and sell not my signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) Unbelievers.
 
 
So being witnesses is not unique to the Jehovahs Witnesses.
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by mariyah - 06 July 2008 at 11:21am
"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.
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Quote minuteman Replybullet Posted: 22 June 2008 at 7:32pm
 
 robin is making wandering statements. Only one seems to be good that Jesus is not god. What else is in his bag is not known to me yet. It would be better to find out the short answers to a few important points so that we understand the beliefs of the JW's.
 
 1. Is trinity the truth?
 2. Is Jesus or the holy spirit a god? What about holy spirit, god or not?
 3. Did Jesus die on the cross?
 4. Did Jesus come back to life after death (called resurrection)?
 5. Do the JW's believe in the original sin?
 6. Did Jesus die and take away the sins of people (Atonement)?
 7. Is it necessary to be baptised nowadays?
 8. Did Jesus meet any of his arch enemies after getting up (rising)?
 9. Did he go bodily to heavens or only his soul went up?
10. When will he come back and what he wil do?
 
  robin, please reply point by point. Thanks.
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Quote mariyah Replybullet Posted: 22 June 2008 at 8:15pm
ASA Minuteman:
As far as I know the JW's believe:
*Jesus is the son of God but not God,..He is the Archangel Michael sent to the earth to do Gods work(correct me if I am wrong please Robin)
*They believe the concept of the trinity is of pagan origin (which is a point we agree on) the worship is of the One true God only, and all holidays pretty much are not observed as they are "no part of this world"
*The organization is run by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania...
*you were formerly called Bible students, or Russellites (after the founder, Russell"
*Only 144,000 select JW's will go to heaven to rule with Jesus, the rest who are worthy (You must be a baptized JW) will inherit a paradise earth.
*All other so called Christians are part of the whore of Babylon called "christendom" and are condemmed to Gehenna as are the rest of us who do not join their faith.
*The leaders of this brand of faith do not encourage higher education unless it is further study of the tenets of their faith. The end of the world is coming soon and they must "serve as a witness to all nations and then the end will come"
Very simple, inclusive, but easy to figure out.
 
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