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Interfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: WHY CHRISTIANS REJECT THE KAABA. Post Reply Post New Topic
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robin
 
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Quote robin Replybullet Posted: 29 June 2008 at 1:46pm
Originally posted by _ALI_

Salam Robin

It is a great misconception (generally among the non-Muslims not Muslims) that Muslims worship the Kaba. Kaaba is the Qibla i.e. the direction Muslims face during their prayers. It is important to note that though Muslims face the Kaaba during prayers, they do not worship the Kaaba. Muslims worship and bow to none but Allah.

It is mentioned in Surah Baqarah:

"We see the turning of thy face (for guidance) to the heavens: now shall We turn thee to a Qiblah that shall please thee. Turn then thy face in the direction of the Sacred Mosque: wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction."
                              [Al-Qur’an 2:144]
 

 Islam believes in fostering unity

For instance, if Muslims want to offer Salaah (Prayer), it is possible that some may wish to face north, while some may wish to face south. In order to unite Muslims in their worship of the One True God, Muslims, wherever they may be, are asked to face in only one direction i.e. towards the Kaaba. If some Muslims live towards the west of the Kaaba they face the east. Similarly if they live towards the east of the Kaaba they face the west. Imagine, I meet so many Muslims online and I do not know where they are from, but I know that they bow in the same direction I bow. That is called unity in Islam.

Hadith of Umar (may Allah be pleased with him)

Regarding the black stone, hajr-e-aswad, there is a hadith (tradition), attributed to the illustrious companion of the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh), Umar (may Allah be pleased with him).

According to Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, book of Hajj, chapter 56, H.No. 675. Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) said, "I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit nor harm. Had I not seen the Prophet (pbuh) touching (and kissing) you, I would never have touched (and kissed) you".

 People stood on Kaaba and gave the adhaan
At the time of the Prophet, people even stood on the Kaaba and gave the ‘adhaan’ or the call to prayer. I ask you, if we worship the Kaba and it is like our idol then which idol worshipper stands on the idol he worships?
I agree that Christianity discourages idol worship (which is strange since many Christians worship statues of Jesus) but even Christianity understands the concept of bowing down to a sacred place.
Psalm 138:2
I will bow down toward your holy temple and will praise your name for your love and your faithfulness, for you have exalted above all things your name and your word
.
Let me also quote Quran to clear things up
Behold!  We gave the site, To Abraham, of the (Sacred) House (i.e., the Kaaba), (Saying):  'Associate not anything (In worship) with Me; And sanctify My House For those who compass it round, Or stand up, Or bow, or prostrate themselves (Therein in prayer).  And proclaim the Pilgrimage among men: they will come to thee on foot and (mounted) on every kind of camel, lean on account of journeys through deep and distant mountain highways;  (The Noble Quran, 22:26-27)"
So After giving Kaba to Abraham, God immidiately says: Associate nothing (in worship) with Me, clearly implying that do not worship the sacred House, worship Me. 

 

The Hadith is much like the Jewish Talmud or the Churches Book of Common Prayer or the Catholic Missal, the words of men so not of much use as it is only dogmas or history and not God's inspired words!

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Angel
 
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 30 June 2008 at 8:24am
robin, where it mentions, Al-Qur'an and the noble quran, then it is the word of God not man.
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Quote robin Replybullet Posted: 02 July 2008 at 12:55am
Originally posted by myahya

Robin: An idol is an image, a representation of anything, or a symbol that is an object of passionate devotion, whether material or imagined.   Generally speaking, idolatry is the veneration, love, worship, or adoration of an idol.   It is usually practiced toward a real or supposed higher power, whether such power is believed to have animate existence (as a human, an animal, or an organization) or is inanimate (as a force or lifeless object of nature).   Idolatry generally involves some form, ceremony, or ritual.

This is not a correct definition of idolatry. Do you never love Isa (as) ? He was an animate existence (as a human). If this is a correct definition and If you love Isa (as) then I can accordingly say you are committing idolatry!

In addition, it does not prove that the true act of worshiping (regarding with Haj) by Mohammad (sawa) is an idolatry, does it?

 
You know as well as I do the the key factor is "Worship" is in the above and it is regarding the Bible's usage!


Edited by robin - 02 July 2008 at 2:31pm
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myahya
 
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Quote myahya Replybullet Posted: 03 July 2008 at 3:39am
Robin: You know as well as I do the the key factor is "Worship" is in the above and it is regarding the Bible's usage!

Well, the key factor is worship. Now, who has told you (or how did you conclude) that Mohammad (sawa), while he was performing Haj, was worshiping anything except God or Allah swt?!! ... And the same for Muslims.



Edited by myahya - 03 July 2008 at 3:40am
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robin
 
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Quote robin Replybullet Posted: 03 July 2008 at 3:18pm
[QUOTE=myahya] Robin: You know as well as I do the the key factor is "Worship" is in the above and it is regarding the Bible's usage!

Well, the key factor is worship. Now, who has told you (or how did you conclude) that Mohammad (sawa), while he was performing Haj, was worshiping anything except God or Allah swt?!! ... And the same for Muslims.

[/QUOTE]
 
Here is the TRUE GOD:-
1 Chronicles 22:1
Then David said: "This is the house of Jehovah the [true] God, and this is an altar for burnt offering for Israel."
 
2 Chronicles 26:5
And he continually tended to search for God in the days of Zecha·riah, the instructor in the fear of the [true] God; and, in the days of his searching for Jehovah, the [true] God made him prosperous.
 
Nehemiah 8:6
Then Ezra blessed Jehovah the [true] God, the great One, at which all the people answered, "Amen! Amen!" with the lifting up of their hands. They then bowed low and prostrated themselves to Jehovah with [their] faces to the earth.
 
Nehemiah 9:7
You are Jehovah the [true] God, who chose A´bram . . 
 
 

THE FIRST THREE OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS

Exodus 20:1-17

“And God proceeded to speak all these words, saying:

 

1        2 “I am Jehovah (Heb. vuvh) your God, who have brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slaves. 3 You must not have any other gods against my face.

 

2        4 “You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or that is on the earth underneath or that is in the waters under the earth. 5 You must not bow down to them nor be induced to serve them, because I Jehovah (Heb. vuvh) your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation, in the case of those who hate me; 6 but exercising loving-kindness toward the thousandth generation in the case of those who love me and keep my commandments.

 

3        7 “You must not take up the name of Jehovah (Heb. vuvh) your God in a worthless way, for Jehovah (Heb. vuvh) will not leave the one unpunished who takes up his name in a worthless way.

Where do it say the he - Jehovah - must be worshiped in the Quran, as Moses penned the 10 Commandments?

 



Edited by robin - 03 July 2008 at 3:19pm
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mariyah
 
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Quote mariyah Replybullet Posted: 03 July 2008 at 5:40pm
Originally posted by Andalus

 
 
The correct view is:-
 
 
You are "asserting" a view, which does not make it a fact.
 
 
 
 
 
An idol is an image, a representation of anything, or a symbol that is an object of passionate devotion, whether material or imagined.   Generally speaking, idolatry is the veneration, love, worship, or adoration of an idol. 
 
 
Juvenile. According to this rubbish, you mother is an idol.
 
 
This fails to define what idolatry is.
 
 
 
 
 
 
  It is usually practiced toward a real or supposed higher power, whether such power is believed to have animate existence (as a human, an animal, or an organization) or is inanimate (as a force or lifeless object of nature). 
 
 
The word "usually", still leaves room for you mother to be an idol, and you an idol worshipper.
 
 
  Idolatry generally involves some form, ceremony, or ritual.
 
 
Usually or not, this does not make my view about the ka'aba "idolatry". You worship a man that is no different than the myriad man god cults that existed in the same region that your faith was born. Semi bowing to the wall in Israel, or to the Ark of Moses is no more "idolatry" then what you have attempted to accuse Muslims of doing. You, or the source you copied and pasted from, has made a willful distortion of the bible to fit their means, an act you faith has mastered.
 
Thank you Andalus. The section of Christianity that Robin states he/she belongs to only recognizes one feast, that of Nisan 4, where all of them gather in congregation to "memorialize" the supposed death of Jesus. It is at this ceremony that they pass bread and wine to the congregation, but only those who are of the 144,000 people that will be the only ones to go to heaven can eat of this bread and wine. Doesn't that follow a ritual form  of worship and is not that a prescribed ceremony? How does that differ?  And how mean you are to your own followers if they are "disfellowshipped" and treated as viciously as my brothers wife was when she married him after she left an abusive JW husband and did not wait until he "committed fornication" by marrying and sleeping with another woman. She is now a muslimah alhamdullilah and realized how brainwashed she was! I find the teachings of your cult very unkind and not of the Teachings of Jesus or a forgiving and compassionate Creator!
The Christians of so called Christiandom are ahead of you! But we will all account for our deeds on Judgement Day when we stand before Him for an accounting.
"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.
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robin
 
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Quote robin Replybullet Posted: 03 July 2008 at 11:53pm
Originally posted by mariyah

[/QUOTE
 
Thank you Andalus. The section of Christianity that Robin states he/she belongs to only recognizes one feast, that of Nisan 4, where all of them gather in congregation to "memorialize" the supposed death of Jesus. It is at this ceremony that they pass bread and wine to the congregation, but only those who are of the 144,000 people that will be the only ones to go to heaven can eat of this bread and wine. Doesn't that follow a ritual form  of worship and is not that a prescribed ceremony? How does that differ?  [/QUOTE]
 
1
IT IS NISAN 14TH.
 
2
The Prophet Jesus commanded it to be done, so if one does not do it one does not except him as a prophet or messenger of God:-
 
Luke 22:19-20
Also, he took a loaf, gave thanks, broke it, and gave it to them, saying: "This means my body which is to be given in YOUR behalf. Keep doing this in remembrance of me." 20 Also, the cup in the same way after they had the evening meal, he saying: "This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood, which is to be poured out in YOUR behalf.
 
thus is it not wrong to do as ALLAh commanded it to be done via his Prophet!


Edited by robin - 03 July 2008 at 11:55pm
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myahya
 
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Quote myahya Replybullet Posted: 04 July 2008 at 2:13am

Robin: Here is the TRUE GOD:-

1 Chronicles 22:1

Then David said: "This is the house of Jehovah the [true] God, and this is an altar for burnt offering for Israel."

2 Chronicles 26:5

And he continually tended to search for God in the days of Zecha·riah, the instructor in the fear of the [true] God; and, in the days of his searching for Jehovah, the [true] God made him prosperous.

Nehemiah 8:6

Then Ezra blessed Jehovah the [true] God, the great One, at which all the people answered, "Amen! Amen!" with the lifting up of their hands. They then bowed low and prostrated themselves to Jehovah with [their] faces to the earth.

Nehemiah 9:7

You are Jehovah the [true] God, who chose A´bram . . 

I see no relevance between these verses and the question I asked in the last post. All prophets such as Adam (as), Noah (as), Abraham (as), Ismaeel (as), Isaac (as), Moses (as), Isa (as) and the last one Mohammad (sawa) all spoke of one true God in different languages. What are you trying to prove with the name Jehovah?!!

THE FIRST THREE OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS

Exodus 20:1-17

“And God proceeded to speak all these words, saying:

1        2  “I am Jehovah (Heb. vuvh) your God, who have brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slaves. 3 You must not have any other gods against my face.

Again it has nothing to do with my question.

2        4 “You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or that is on the earth underneath or that is in the waters under the earth. 5 You must not bow down to them nor be induced to serve them, because I Jehovah (Heb. vuvh) your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation, in the case of those who hate me; 6 but exercising loving-kindness toward the thousandth generation in the case of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Abraham (as) did not make Kaba for himself. The True God (that you are talking about) told him to do so. He did what Allah swt willed. I have already quoted the corresponding verse from Quran in this thread.

3        7 “You must not take up the name of Jehovah (Heb. vuvh) your God in a worthless way, for Jehovah (Heb. vuvh) will not leave the one unpunished who takes up his name in a worthless way.

How did you come up with worthlessness of the way of worshiping in Haj by Mohammad (sawa)? Is it written in the above verse? No. Therefore, take care to not make for yourself a carved belief in your mind and heart without any evidence.

 
Where do it say the he - Jehovah - must be worshiped in the Quran, as Moses penned the 10 Commandments?

In Quran? You can find it in Quran wherever it says that Allah swt must be worshiped.

Edited by myahya - 04 July 2008 at 2:33am
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