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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: WHY CHRISTIANS REJECT THE KAABA. Post Reply Post New Topic
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robin
 
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Quote robin Replybullet Posted: 20 June 2008 at 1:02am
Originally posted by honeto

Robin,
write it down: "Muslims don't worship anything that is Created by God." In my understanding kissing or touching of the black stone is as that of a relic, since we believe our forefathers and prophets like Abraham and even Adam has placed it when they erected the house of worship to God in that place. I have not been there, but if ever went, to touch it would be like to touch something that our prophets have touched, so in a way to connect with them, its probably about that feeling, and not at all how you are suggesting.
 
So don't waist your time in looking for quotes.
If you are told so, you are misguided. Here is a chance to correct your knowledge about Islam.
We do not make images of God or bow down to them like Cristians,  Hindu,   and others did and do, nor we think of God as a super size white man.
When we bow down we bow down only to God, our and your God like Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus did and taught.
 
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The correct view is:-
 
An idol is an image, a representation of anything, or a symbol that is an object of passionate devotion, whether material or imagined.   Generally speaking, idolatry is the veneration, love, worship, or adoration of an idol.   It is usually practiced toward a real or supposed higher power, whether such power is believed to have animate existence (as a human, an animal, or an organization) or is inanimate (as a force or lifeless object of nature).   Idolatry generally involves some form, ceremony, or ritual.
 
 
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myahya
 
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Quote myahya Replybullet Posted: 21 June 2008 at 3:09am
Robin: An idol is an image, a representation of anything, or a symbol that is an object of passionate devotion, whether material or imagined.   Generally speaking, idolatry is the veneration, love, worship, or adoration of an idol.   It is usually practiced toward a real or supposed higher power, whether such power is believed to have animate existence (as a human, an animal, or an organization) or is inanimate (as a force or lifeless object of nature).   Idolatry generally involves some form, ceremony, or ritual.

This is not a correct definition of idolatry. Do you never love Isa (as) ? He was an animate existence (as a human). If this is a correct definition and If you love Isa (as) then I can accordingly say you are committing idolatry!

In addition, it does not prove that the true act of worshiping (regarding with Haj) by Mohammad (sawa) is an idolatry, does it?



Edited by myahya - 21 June 2008 at 3:14am
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Quote _ALI_ Replybullet Posted: 21 June 2008 at 5:52pm

Salam Robin

It is a great misconception (generally among the non-Muslims not Muslims) that Muslims worship the Kaba. Kaaba is the Qibla i.e. the direction Muslims face during their prayers. It is important to note that though Muslims face the Kaaba during prayers, they do not worship the Kaaba. Muslims worship and bow to none but Allah.

It is mentioned in Surah Baqarah:

"We see the turning of thy face (for guidance) to the heavens: now shall We turn thee to a Qiblah that shall please thee. Turn then thy face in the direction of the Sacred Mosque: wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction."
                              [Al-Qur’an 2:144]
 

 Islam believes in fostering unity

For instance, if Muslims want to offer Salaah (Prayer), it is possible that some may wish to face north, while some may wish to face south. In order to unite Muslims in their worship of the One True God, Muslims, wherever they may be, are asked to face in only one direction i.e. towards the Kaaba. If some Muslims live towards the west of the Kaaba they face the east. Similarly if they live towards the east of the Kaaba they face the west. Imagine, I meet so many Muslims online and I do not know where they are from, but I know that they bow in the same direction I bow. That is called unity in Islam.

Hadith of Umar (may Allah be pleased with him)

Regarding the black stone, hajr-e-aswad, there is a hadith (tradition), attributed to the illustrious companion of the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh), Umar (may Allah be pleased with him).

According to Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, book of Hajj, chapter 56, H.No. 675. Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) said, "I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit nor harm. Had I not seen the Prophet (pbuh) touching (and kissing) you, I would never have touched (and kissed) you".

 People stood on Kaaba and gave the adhaan
At the time of the Prophet, people even stood on the Kaaba and gave the ‘adhaan’ or the call to prayer. I ask you, if we worship the Kaba and it is like our idol then which idol worshipper stands on the idol he worships?
I agree that Christianity discourages idol worship (which is strange since many Christians worship statues of Jesus) but even Christianity understands the concept of bowing down to a sacred place.
Psalm 138:2
I will bow down toward your holy temple and will praise your name for your love and your faithfulness, for you have exalted above all things your name and your word
.
Let me also quote Quran to clear things up
Behold!  We gave the site, To Abraham, of the (Sacred) House (i.e., the Kaaba), (Saying):  'Associate not anything (In worship) with Me; And sanctify My House For those who compass it round, Or stand up, Or bow, or prostrate themselves (Therein in prayer).  And proclaim the Pilgrimage among men: they will come to thee on foot and (mounted) on every kind of camel, lean on account of journeys through deep and distant mountain highways;  (The Noble Quran, 22:26-27)"
So After giving Kaba to Abraham, God immidiately says: Associate nothing (in worship) with Me, clearly implying that do not worship the sacred House, worship Me. 
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Quote minuteman Replybullet Posted: 21 June 2008 at 7:40pm
 
 The christians do not have any Center of prayer. They do not have a system of regular prayers. But the Jews have a system in which they need to have a center of worship.
 
 The Muslims have maximum prayer system, in every town, village, house, country etc. The Muslims have a day and night prayer system. They need a proper Center of worship system. Otherwise, people in one house will be praying haphazardly, the son facing east, the father facing west and so on.
 
 Also, beside individual prayers (Nawafil) the most important is the obligatory (fardh) prayers five times a day. These prayers need to be performed in a mosque. There may be many mosques in a village or city. Imagine, if they had no central direction then one mosque will be facing west, the other east and the third one facing south.
 
 Also people would fight with each other about the direction of the mosque. Each one would like to build the mosque facing his own house. To do away with us such maladies, Allah guided the prophets, from the very beginning about a center of worship. Hazrat Ibraheem a.s. built that center of worship for the purpose of the worship of the One God (Allah) in Makkah, Arabia.
 
 That place is the center only. It is not the item of worship. Nobody worships Makkah or Ka'abah. If the place of wroship has no value then why it is written in the OT about Abraham and Jacob and others building a place of worship. Why to build any place at all? If it is a useless act.
 
 The christians cannot understand the importance of the center of worship. They do not have any center. And they do not have any law too. Just their own man made laws of marriage and divorce and worship. Nothing from God. So we request them to read the OT and try to understand the importance of the places of worship. Thanks.


Edited by minuteman - 21 June 2008 at 7:52pm
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robin
 
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Quote robin Replybullet Posted: 22 June 2008 at 5:29am
Originally posted by myahya


This is not a correct definition of idolatry. Do you never love Isa (as) ? He was an animate existence (as a human). If this is a correct definition and If you love Isa (as) then I can accordingly say you are committing idolatry!
 
 
THINK!!
 

By your comment and definition to Love Allah, is then Idolatry!

 
I should go and thinks again if I was you!
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Andalus
 
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Quote Andalus Replybullet Posted: 22 June 2008 at 9:04pm
 
 
The correct view is:-
 
 
You are "asserting" a view, which does not make it a fact.
 
 
 
 
 
An idol is an image, a representation of anything, or a symbol that is an object of passionate devotion, whether material or imagined.   Generally speaking, idolatry is the veneration, love, worship, or adoration of an idol. 
 
 
Juvenile. According to this rubbish, you mother is an idol.
 
 
This fails to define what idolatry is.
 
 
 
 
 
 
  It is usually practiced toward a real or supposed higher power, whether such power is believed to have animate existence (as a human, an animal, or an organization) or is inanimate (as a force or lifeless object of nature). 
 
 
The word "usually", still leaves room for you mother to be an idol, and you an idol worshipper.
 
 
  Idolatry generally involves some form, ceremony, or ritual.
 
 
Usually or not, this does not make my view about the ka'aba "idolatry". You worship a man that is no different than the myriad man god cults that existed in the same region that your faith was born. Semi bowing to the wall in Israel, or to the Ark of Moses is no more "idolatry" then what you have attempted to accuse Muslims of doing. You, or the source you copied and pasted from, has made a willful distortion of the bible to fit their means, an act you faith has mastered.
A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 22 June 2008 at 9:05pm
Originally posted by minuteman

The christians do not have any Center of prayer. They do not have a system of regular prayers. 
 
The christians cannot understand the importance of the center of worship. They do not have any center. And they do not have any law too. Just their own man made laws of marriage and divorce and worship. Nothing from God. So we request them to read the OT and try to understand the importance of the places of worship. Thanks.
 
 
This is not correct. Christians to have a centre of worship, either home or the church. There are the Alters at the head of the church, and people in the homes make up a little alter to face and focus on. When entering the church you dab your fingers in the holy water and make the sign of the cross while kneeling down with one knee towards the Alter. The church outside has a board with times of services/mass to attend to, you don't need to attend all of them. Sundays many people to keep that day for serives just as muslims attend Friday prayers. In the home many followers have prayer just before dinner. If you cannot attend church because of illness then someone can come to the home and preform holy communion, this is what my Grandmother doesm has she cannot get to church. She does miss attending church, She attended everyday for the morning services.
 
So please don't sit there and say that Christians don't have a direction of focal point and a centre of focus or system of regular prayers. Many attend regular prayers like my grandmother did everyday and still does but in the home!
 
While Rome may be the centre for the head of the church, It is the place of Jesus' birth and death that are important. Just because there is no particular direction of west or east or north or south, does not make it any less value. Direction is of no importance but focusing on God where ever you are in whatever direction. God is not in some particular direction, usually people look towards the sky since that is supposedly where heaven is. 
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 22 June 2008 at 9:14pm
Originally posted by robin

[QUOTE=honeto]An idol is an image, a representation of anything, or a symbol that is an object of passionate devotion, whether material or imagined.   Generally speaking, idolatry is the veneration, love, worship, or adoration of an idol.   It is usually practiced toward a real or supposed higher power, whether such power is believed to have animate existence (as a human, an animal, or an organization) or is inanimate (as a force or lifeless object of nature).   Idolatry generally involves some form, ceremony, or ritual.
 
 
 
Robin, you have not done yourself good here, your explanation can also be said of mass in church which is a ceremony/ritual of giving of the blood (wine) and bread (the wafer) given.
 
Also robin, of pagan orgins of things, before trying to point out others seem to follow pagan rituals, you might like to re-learn the history of Christianity, even the hats of bishops are mithesism in origin.


Edited by Angel - 22 June 2008 at 9:22pm
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