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Message Icon Topic: WHY CHRISTIANS REJECT THE KAABA. Post Reply Post New Topic
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Mansoor_ali
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Quote Mansoor_ali Replybullet Posted: 11 January 2009 at 3:31pm
Originally posted by robin

Originally posted by Honzo

Originally posted by Robin

I do not agree as it is just like to Pope kissing the lifeless cross around his neck!

 the Stone is JUST A STONE! 
 
 
Then why kiss it?
 
 
 
 Topic:Does kissing mean worshipping?
 
 You can find response here:
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 12 January 2009 at 5:45pm
Originally posted by robin

Originally posted by Honzo

Originally posted by Robin

I do not agree as it is just like to Pope kissing the lifeless cross around his neck!

 the Stone is JUST A STONE! 
 
 
Then why kiss it?
 
 
 
Robin,
may be this example will say something. Suppose you have a hand watch which belonged to your great grandfather who loved you a lot. After he has passed away that watch will remind you of him. When you hold it thinking that he held it once will bring you comfort and memories. You may squeeze it in your hands or kiss it. By doing so you will not be worshipping it. But imagine if you carved a statue of him and placed it in your room and occassionally sat in front of the statue talking and kissing it will be a different thing.
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote robin Replybullet Posted: 16 January 2009 at 1:11am
Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by robin

Originally posted by Honzo

Originally posted by Robin

I do not agree as it is just like to Pope kissing the lifeless cross around his neck!

 the Stone is JUST A STONE! 
 
 
Then why kiss it?
 
 
 
Robin,
may be this example will say something. Suppose you have a hand watch which belonged to your great grandfather who loved you a lot. After he has passed away that watch will remind you of him. When you hold it thinking that he held it once will bring you comfort and memories. You may squeeze it in your hands or kiss it. By doing so you will not be worshipping it. But imagine if you carved a statue of him and placed it in your room and occassionally sat in front of the statue talking and kissing it will be a different thing.
Hasan
 
Why kiss a dead object?
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robin
 
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Quote robin Replybullet Posted: 16 January 2009 at 8:28am
Originally posted by Honzo

The Jewish Encyclopedia says:

The cross as a Christian symbol or "seal" came into use at least as early as the second century (see "Apost. Const." iii. 17; Epistle of Barnabas, xi.-xii.; Justin, "Apologia," i. 55-60; "Dial. cum Tryph." 85-97); and the marking of a cross upon the forehead and the chest was regarded as a talisman against the powers of demons (Tertullian, "De Corona," iii.; Cyprian, "Testimonies," xi. 21–22; Lactantius, "Divinæ Institutiones," iv. 27, and elsewhere). Accordingly the Christian Fathers had to defend themselves, as early as the second century, against the charge of being worshipers of the cross, as may be learned from Tertullian, "Apologia," xii., xvii., and Minucius Felix, "Octavius," xxix. Christians used to swear by the power of the cross (see Apocalypse of Mary, viii., in James, "Texts and Studies," iii. 118).
 
God's view of the cross and all other pagan symbols & idols is that thay are dung:-
 
Leviticus 26:30
And I shall certainly annihilate YOUR sacred high places and cut off YOUR incense stands and lay YOUR own carcasses upon the carcasses of YOUR dungy idols; and my soul will simply abhor YOU.
 
Deuteronomy 29:17-18
And YOU used to see their disgusting things and their dungy idols, wood and stone, silver and gold, that were with them;) 18 that there may not be among YOU a man or a woman or a family or a tribe whose heart is turning today away from Jehovah our God to go and serve the gods of those nations; that there may not be among YOU a root bearing the fruit of a poisonous plant and wormwood.
 
1 Kings 15:12
Accordingly he had the male temple prostitutes pass out of the land and removed all the dungy idols that his forefathers had made.
 
Ezekiel 6:4-7
And YOUR altars must be made desolate and YOUR incense stands must be broken, and I will cause YOUR slain ones to fall before YOUR dungy idols. 5 And I will put the carcasses of the sons of Israel before their dungy idols, and I will scatter YOUR bones all around YOUR altars. 6 In all YOUR dwelling places the very cities will become devastated and the high places themselves will become desolated, in order that they may lie devastated and YOUR altars may lie desolated and be actually broken and YOUR dungy idols may be actually made to cease and YOUR incense stands cut down and YOUR works wiped out. 7 And the slain one will certainly fall in the midst of YOU, and YOU will have to know that I am Jehovah.
 
Ezekiel 16:36
This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, ‘For the reason that your lustfulness has been poured out and your private parts are uncovered in your acts of prostitution toward those passionately loving you and toward all your detestable dungy idols, even with the blood of your sons whom you gave to them,
 
 
of which I agree with God.
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2009 at 10:11am
Originally posted by robin

Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by robin

Originally posted by Honzo

Originally posted by Robin

I do not agree as it is just like to Pope kissing the lifeless cross around his neck!

 the Stone is JUST A STONE! 
 
 
Then why kiss it?
 
 
 
Robin,
may be this example will say something. Suppose you have a hand watch which belonged to your great grandfather who loved you a lot. After he has passed away that watch will remind you of him. When you hold it thinking that he held it once will bring you comfort and memories. You may squeeze it in your hands or kiss it. By doing so you will not be worshipping it. But imagine if you carved a statue of him and placed it in your room and occassionally sat in front of the statue talking and kissing it will be a different thing.
Hasan
 
Why kiss a dead object?
 
Robin,
who says its dead, it was never alive, nor it died.
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Bloodwashed Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2009 at 3:33pm
Originally posted by robin

WHY CHRISTIANS REJECT THE KAABA.

 

The reason is based of the teachings of The Prophet Moses (see below) in the first instance then on how Christians followed the same teaching.  

 

This shrine is the Kaaba, a cube-shaped structure normally covered by a large curtain of black brocade and containing the sacred Black Stone. This stone, which Muslims believe was given to Adam for the forgiveness of sins upon his expulsion from Eden, was then supposedly white.   In Muslim tradition the original Kaaba perished in Noah’s Flood, but the Black Stone was preserved and later given to Abraham by the angel Gabriel, after which Abraham rebuilt the Kaaba and restored the Black Stone to its proper place. It is in the direction of the Kaaba—according to Islam the holiest place on earth—that Muslims orient themselves in prayer five times a day.   The Quran commands the worship of the Kaaba stone, the pilgrimage to Mecca, the fast during the month of Ramadhan.

 

The Law of Moses says stone must not be worshiped!:-

Leviticus 26:1

“‘YOU must not make valueless gods for yourselves, and YOU must not set up a carved image or a sacred pillar for yourselves, and YOU MUST NOT PUT A STONE AS A SHOWPIECE IN YOUR LAND IN ORDER TO BOW DOWN TOWARD IT; for I am Jehovah YOUR God.

 

  «لا تَصْنَعُوا لَكُمْ اوْثَانا وَلا تُقِيمُوا لَكُمْ تِمْثَالا مَنْحُوتا اوْ نَصَبا وَلا تَجْعَلُوا فِي ارْضِكُمْ حَجَرا مُصَّوَرا لِتَسْجُدُوا لَهُ. لانِّي انَا

الرَّبُّ الَهُكُمْ.

Deuteronomy 4:28

And there YOU will have to serve gods, THE PRODUCT OF THE HANDS OF MAN, wood and STONE, which cannot see or hear or eat or smell.

 

  وَتَصْنَعُونَ هُنَاكَ آلِهَةً صَنْعَةَ أَيْدِي النَّاسِ مِنْ خَشَبٍ وَحَجَرٍ مِمَّا لا يُبْصِرُ وَلا يَسْمَعُ وَلا يَأْكُلُ وَلا يَشُمُّ.

 

Deuteronomy 29:17-18

“...and you used to see their disgusting things and their dungy idols, wood and STONE, silver and gold, that were with them;) 18 that there may not be among YOU a man or a woman or a family or a tribe whose heart is turning today away from Jehovah our God to go and serve the gods of those nations; that there may not be among YOU a root bearing the fruit of a poisonous plant and wormwood.

 

  وَرَأَيْتُمْ أَرْجَاسَهُمْ وَأَصْنَامَهُمُ التِي عِنْدَهُمْ مِنْ خَشَبٍ وَحَجَرٍ وَفِضَّةٍ وَذَهَبٍ

  لِئَلا يَكُونَ فِيكُمْ رَجُلٌ أَوِ امْرَأَةٌ أَوْ عَشِيرَةٌ أَوْ سِبْطٌ قَلبُهُ اليَوْمَ مُنْصَرِفٌ عَنِ الرَّبِّ إِلهِنَا لِكَيْ يَذْهَبَ لِيَعْبُدَ آلِهَةَ تِلكَ الأُمَمِ. لِئَلا يَكُونَ فِيكُمْ أَصْلٌ يُثْمِرُ عَلقَماً وَأَفْسَنْتِيناً.

 

 

Does not the following teach humans to break God’s Law on the worship of Idols?

Su 2:125

Remember We made the House a place of assembly for men and a place of safety; and take ye the Station of Abraham as a place of prayer; and We covenanted with Abraham and Ismail, that they should sanctify My house for those who compass it round, or use it as a retreat, or bow, or Prostrate themselves (therein in prayer). … 127  And remember Abraham and Ismail raised the foundations of the House (with this prayer): "Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us: For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing."

 

Su 5:100

Allah made the Kaba, the Sacred House, as an asylum of security for men, as also the Sacred Months, the animals for offerings, and the garlands that mark them: That ye may know that Allah hath knowledge of what is in the heavens and on earth and that Allah is well acquainted with all things.

 

In The Bible Moses says:-

Deuteronomy 4:25

“In case you become father to sons and grandsons and YOU have resided a long time in the land and do act ruinously and do make a CARVED IMAGE, A FORM OF ANYTHING, and do commit evil in the eyes of Jehovah your God so as to offend him ...”

 

 «إِذَا وَلدْتُمْ أَوْلاداً وَأَحفَاداً وَأَطَلتُمُ الزَّمَانَ فِي الأَرْضِ وَفَسَدْتُمْ وَصَنَعْتُمْ تِمْثَالاً مَنْحُوتاً صُورَةَ شَيْءٍ مَا وَفَعَلتُمُ الشَّرَّ فِي عَيْنَيِ الرَّبِّ إِلهِكُمْ لِإِغَاظَتِهِ

 

1 Corinthians 10:14

Therefore, my beloved ones, flee from IDOLATRY. 

  لِذَلِكَ يَا أَحِبَّائِي اهْرُبُوا مِنْ عِبَادَةِ الأَوْثَانِ.

1 John 5:21

Little children, guard yourselves from IDOLS.

  أَيُّهَا الأَوْلاَدُ احْفَظُوا أَنْفُسَكُمْ مِنَ الأَصْنَامِ. آمِينَ.

 
Isn't kissing the black stone a form of idolatry?  Wouldn't that be shirk?
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Quote Nur_Ilahi Replybullet Posted: 25 January 2009 at 3:49am
Originally posted by Bloodwashed

 
Isn't kissing the black stone a form of idolatry?  Wouldn't that be shirk?
 
Kissing the blackstone is not shirk. As long as you do not associate the stone with God Almighty. The stone is just  a creation of the Creator. The One that has absolute POWER AND WILL belongs only to Allah AlKhaliq - THE CREATOR OF THE WHOLE UNIVERSE.
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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Quote OneWay Replybullet Posted: 28 January 2009 at 6:38am
 
So how is it that muslim eccept certain scriptures of the bible and deny others. 
 
The Qur’an was revealed to Muhammad by the angel Jibrīl (Gabriel) from AD 610 to his death in AD 632. 
 
Muslim hold the the bible has been corrupted and changed.
 
 
Please explain the The Dead Sea Scrolls.
 

The Dead Sea Scrolls consist of roughly 900 documents, including texts from the Hebrew Bible, discovered between 1947 and 1956 in eleven caves in and around the Wadi Qumran near the ruins of the ancient settlement of Khirbet Qumran, on the northwest shore of the Dead Sea.   They include some of the only known surviving copies of Biblical documents made before 100 A.D., and preserve evidence of considerable diversity of belief and practice within late Second Temple Judaism. They are written in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek, mostly on parchment, but with some written on papyrus. [1] These manuscripts generally date between 150 B.C to 70 A.D.[2].

The Dead Sea Scrolls verify the accuracy of the old testament.  The only book not found in the Dead Sea scrolls was the book of Esther.
 


Edited by OneWay - 28 January 2009 at 6:40am
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