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Message Icon Topic: WHY CHRISTIANS REJECT THE KAABA. Post Reply Post New Topic
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robin
 
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Quote robin Replybullet Topic: WHY CHRISTIANS REJECT THE KAABA.
    Posted: 18 June 2008 at 2:50am

WHY CHRISTIANS REJECT THE KAABA.

 

The reason is based of the teachings of The Prophet Moses (see below) in the first instance then on how Christians followed the same teaching.  

 

This shrine is the Kaaba, a cube-shaped structure normally covered by a large curtain of black brocade and containing the sacred Black Stone. This stone, which Muslims believe was given to Adam for the forgiveness of sins upon his expulsion from Eden, was then supposedly white.   In Muslim tradition the original Kaaba perished in Noah’s Flood, but the Black Stone was preserved and later given to Abraham by the angel Gabriel, after which Abraham rebuilt the Kaaba and restored the Black Stone to its proper place. It is in the direction of the Kaaba—according to Islam the holiest place on earth—that Muslims orient themselves in prayer five times a day.   The Quran commands the worship of the Kaaba stone, the pilgrimage to Mecca, the fast during the month of Ramadhan.

 

The Law of Moses says stone must not be worshiped!:-

Leviticus 26:1

“‘YOU must not make valueless gods for yourselves, and YOU must not set up a carved image or a sacred pillar for yourselves, and YOU MUST NOT PUT A STONE AS A SHOWPIECE IN YOUR LAND IN ORDER TO BOW DOWN TOWARD IT; for I am Jehovah YOUR God.

 

  «لا تَصْنَعُوا لَكُمْ اوْثَانا وَلا تُقِيمُوا لَكُمْ تِمْثَالا مَنْحُوتا اوْ نَصَبا وَلا تَجْعَلُوا فِي ارْضِكُمْ حَجَرا مُصَّوَرا لِتَسْجُدُوا لَهُ. لانِّي انَا

الرَّبُّ الَهُكُمْ.

Deuteronomy 4:28

And there YOU will have to serve gods, THE PRODUCT OF THE HANDS OF MAN, wood and STONE, which cannot see or hear or eat or smell.

 

  وَتَصْنَعُونَ هُنَاكَ آلِهَةً صَنْعَةَ أَيْدِي النَّاسِ مِنْ خَشَبٍ وَحَجَرٍ مِمَّا لا يُبْصِرُ وَلا يَسْمَعُ وَلا يَأْكُلُ وَلا يَشُمُّ.

 

Deuteronomy 29:17-18

“...and you used to see their disgusting things and their dungy idols, wood and STONE, silver and gold, that were with them;) 18 that there may not be among YOU a man or a woman or a family or a tribe whose heart is turning today away from Jehovah our God to go and serve the gods of those nations; that there may not be among YOU a root bearing the fruit of a poisonous plant and wormwood.

 

  وَرَأَيْتُمْ أَرْجَاسَهُمْ وَأَصْنَامَهُمُ التِي عِنْدَهُمْ مِنْ خَشَبٍ وَحَجَرٍ وَفِضَّةٍ وَذَهَبٍ

  لِئَلا يَكُونَ فِيكُمْ رَجُلٌ أَوِ امْرَأَةٌ أَوْ عَشِيرَةٌ أَوْ سِبْطٌ قَلبُهُ اليَوْمَ مُنْصَرِفٌ عَنِ الرَّبِّ إِلهِنَا لِكَيْ يَذْهَبَ لِيَعْبُدَ آلِهَةَ تِلكَ الأُمَمِ. لِئَلا يَكُونَ فِيكُمْ أَصْلٌ يُثْمِرُ عَلقَماً وَأَفْسَنْتِيناً.

 

 

Does not the following teach humans to break God’s Law on the worship of Idols?

Su 2:125

Remember We made the House a place of assembly for men and a place of safety; and take ye the Station of Abraham as a place of prayer; and We covenanted with Abraham and Ismail, that they should sanctify My house for those who compass it round, or use it as a retreat, or bow, or Prostrate themselves (therein in prayer). … 127  And remember Abraham and Ismail raised the foundations of the House (with this prayer): "Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us: For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing."

 

Su 5:100

Allah made the Kaba, the Sacred House, as an asylum of security for men, as also the Sacred Months, the animals for offerings, and the garlands that mark them: That ye may know that Allah hath knowledge of what is in the heavens and on earth and that Allah is well acquainted with all things.

 

In The Bible Moses says:-

Deuteronomy 4:25

“In case you become father to sons and grandsons and YOU have resided a long time in the land and do act ruinously and do make a CARVED IMAGE, A FORM OF ANYTHING, and do commit evil in the eyes of Jehovah your God so as to offend him ...”

 

 «إِذَا وَلدْتُمْ أَوْلاداً وَأَحفَاداً وَأَطَلتُمُ الزَّمَانَ فِي الأَرْضِ وَفَسَدْتُمْ وَصَنَعْتُمْ تِمْثَالاً مَنْحُوتاً صُورَةَ شَيْءٍ مَا وَفَعَلتُمُ الشَّرَّ فِي عَيْنَيِ الرَّبِّ إِلهِكُمْ لِإِغَاظَتِهِ

 

1 Corinthians 10:14

Therefore, my beloved ones, flee from IDOLATRY. 

  لِذَلِكَ يَا أَحِبَّائِي اهْرُبُوا مِنْ عِبَادَةِ الأَوْثَانِ.

1 John 5:21

Little children, guard yourselves from IDOLS.

  أَيُّهَا الأَوْلاَدُ احْفَظُوا أَنْفُسَكُمْ مِنَ الأَصْنَامِ. آمِينَ.

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believer
 
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Quote believer Replybullet Posted: 18 June 2008 at 8:09pm
It does seem so much like idol worship, but I have been told it most definitely is not.
 
What is really odd is the kissing of the black stone.  Have you seen pictures of the stone?
 
 
Scroll down to about mid page.
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 18 June 2008 at 9:50pm
you talking about that silver object? which is definitely strange.
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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robin
 
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Quote robin Replybullet Posted: 19 June 2008 at 1:06am
Originally posted by believer

It does seem so much like idol worship, but I have been told it most definitely is not.
 
What is really odd is the kissing of the black stone.  Have you seen pictures of the stone?
 
 
Scroll down to about mid page.
 
 
Sound very familiar!
 
Kissing stone images etc, in the Bible condemned:-

 

1 Kings 19:18

And I have let seven thousand remain in Israel, all the knees that have not bent down to Baal, and every mouth that has not kissed him.”

 

Hosea 13:1-2

“When Ephraim spoke, there was trembling; he himself carried [weight] in Israel. But he proceeded to become guilty in regard to Baal and die. 2 And now they commit additional sin and make for themselves a molten statue from their silver, idols according to their own understanding, the work of craftsmen, all of it. To them they are saying, ‘Let the sacrificers who are men kiss mere calves.’

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seekshidayath
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Quote seekshidayath Replybullet Posted: 19 June 2008 at 5:59am
 
Its again a misconception amongst non-muslims  that muslims worship, Black stone and Kaaba. Its no where in the Glorious Qur'an that we are to worship black stone. And we bow down none but to Allah. Kaaba is our Qibla, which means the direction wherein we are to face. While offering our prayers { Salah} whichever part of the world we may be, but we face this direction of Kaaba. For instance, if we are in west, we face east, or if we are in the eastern part of the world, then we face west. Like wise, we all face kaaba while worshipping One true God. Thus, unity fosters amongst us. Our prostrations are only for Allah swt.

We  Muslims regard the Black  Stone as 'just a stone'. When Umar ibn al-Khattab, the second Caliph, came to kiss the Stone, he said, in front of all assembled:

 "No doubt, I know that you are a stone and can neither harm anyone nor benefit anyone. Had I not seen Allah's Messenger kissing you, I would not have kissed you."

Even we muslims today follow the same trend. An an other point to be noted, that during the days of Prophet { Peace be upon him} people even used to call for prayers { Adha"an} over the terrace of Kabah. Even today while draping kabah with a new cloth or people do climb over it. If it were Kaaba or the Black stone we worshipped, why would we stand over it.

We believe that the Black stone did ascend from the heavens. History of Kabah , can be read in the link shared by 'believer".

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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Quote minuteman Replybullet Posted: 19 June 2008 at 6:32am
 What was the purpose of robin for this post? It was something to do with Moses a.s. There is no truth in saying that Muslims worship kaabah or the black stone. robin has given some references whxi do not prove anything. robin should comment on the words of Deut chapter, what is understood by that. Like Moses said, the Muslims also do not mould or cut images for worship.
 
 If Moses said anything about Ka'abah then at least it proves the history of Ka'abah to the time of Moses a.s. That would be very useful for the Muslims. Let us understand what did moses a.s. say about Ka'abah. Then a good reply will be given
If any one is bad some one must suffer
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Quote robin Replybullet Posted: 19 June 2008 at 9:45am
Originally posted by minuteman

 What was the purpose of robin for this post? It was something to do with Moses a.s. There is no truth in saying that Muslims worship kaabah or the black stone. robin has given some references whxi do not prove anything. robin should comment on the words of Deut chapter, what is understood by that. Like Moses said, the Muslims also do not mould or cut images for worship.
 
 If Moses said anything about Ka'abah then at least it proves the history of Ka'abah to the time of Moses a.s. That would be very useful for the Muslims. Let us understand what did moses a.s. say about Ka'abah. Then a good reply will be given
 
It is like the following.
 
PAGAN ORIGIN OF RELIC WORSHIP
In addition to what God’s holy Word the Bible says on the matter there are other very good reasons why true Christians should not venerate or worship religious relics. The practice and custom did not originate with Christ or his apostles or with God’s chosen nation of Israel. It is clearly a pagan invention and hence of the Devil, pure and simple, and the Catholic Encyclopedia admits as much. It says that the veneration of relics is "a primitive instinct" and is associated with many other religious systems besides that of Catholicism. It goes on to tell how the ancient Greeks superstitiously worshiped the bones and ashes of their heroes, how the Persians "treated with the deepest veneration" the remains of Zoroaster, and how "relic-worship amongst the Buddhists of every sect is a fact beyond dispute".

Other authorities have shown that the ancient Egyptians, Assyrians and Babylonians likewise venerated the relics of their lords and princes. "In the realms of Heathendom the same worship had flourished for ages before Christian saints or martyrs had appeared in the world. . . . From the earliest periods, the system of Buddhism has been propped up by relics, that have wrought miracles at least as well vouched as those wrought by the relics of St. Stephen, or by the ‘Twenty Martyrs’ [mentioned by Augustine]." (Alexander Hislop’s The Two Babylons, pages 177,178) In Kandy, Ceylon, a 400-year-old temple contains what is said to be Buddha’s tooth, "venerated by many millions of people." (The Ceylon Daily News, April 1, 1950) Into the presence of this relic the British foreign secretary, Ernest Bevin, was brought on January 1, 1950, in the hope it would miraculously cure his ailments.—New York Times, Jan. 16, 1950.

The heathen idea of attributing magical powers to bones, skulls, teeth and skins is so much older than Christianity, the above Catholic authority chooses to call it "a primitive instinct". In reality it is nothing more than fetishism, concerning which the Encyclopedia Americana (1942 ed., vol. 11, p. 158) says: "It is the lowest of the unsystematic forms of worship found among uncivilized tribes, and exists especially among the Negroes of Africa, but also among the natives of both Americas, the Polynesians, Australians, and Siberians." When Catholic Portuguese mariners sailed down the west coast of Africa they could see little difference between the worship of "sacred" bones, skulls and charms by the natives, and their own worship of religious relics and amulets which they called feitiços, and from which we get the name fetish.

M’Clintock & Strong’s Cyclopœdia (vol. 8, p. 1028) well sums up the whole matter when it says: "There is no doubt that the worship of relics is an absurdity, without the guarantee of Scripture, directly contrary to the practice of the primitive Church, and irreconcilable with common-sense."

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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 19 June 2008 at 1:49pm
Robin,
write it down: "Muslims don't worship anything that is Created by God." In my understanding kissing or touching of the black stone is as that of a relic, since we believe our forefathers and prophets like Abraham and even Adam has placed it when they erected the house of worship to God in that place. I have not been there, but if ever went, to touch it would be like to touch something that our prophets have touched, so in a way to connect with them, its probably about that feeling, and not at all how you are suggesting.
 
So don't waist your time in looking for quotes.
If you are told so, you are misguided. Here is a chance to correct your knowledge about Islam.
We do not make images of God or bow down to them like Cristians,  Hindu,   and others did and do, nor we think of God as a super size white man.
When we bow down we bow down only to God, our and your God like Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus did and taught.
 
Hasan
 


Edited by honeto - 19 June 2008 at 2:25pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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