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Akhe Abdullah
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Quote Akhe Abdullah Replybullet Posted: 14 October 2009 at 6:26pm
Salams, they are right it is not really commiting suicide.May Allah Bless you brothers for telling the truth
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fais
 
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Quote fais Replybullet Posted: 27 October 2009 at 12:54am
Salam,
wow sister Ruhi,i appreciate the time you have taken to explain the topic,yes these english speaking non muslims has the art and means to change the meanings of a simple word according to their convinience,for example the word 'GAY' means happy but now they have changed the meaning and it is used for homosexuals,meaning of GAY is completely changed according to their society convinience,these great scholars i think dont realise that being homosexual is a great sin according to most of the relegions and it a is psycologycal disorder.
 
there are many such word like fundamentalist, extremist which is now directly used for muslims but actual meanings is totally different.once these words were used for extremely relgious christians.
 
take the example of U.S in the world war II,when they were attacked by japanese at pearl harbour in return U.S destroyed their two major cities heroshima and nagasaki with thousands of innocent people living,the japanese are still facing physical disorder in their new borns because of those nuclear attacks.my question to those who change the meaning of words that please tell me what was this called,if you ask me it is the biggest wound ever given to the mankind.they say it was the retaliation to the japanese agretion so if any muslim does the same why he is tagged as terrorist or sucide bombers.
 
We muslims need to undersatnd these war stratagies of the non belivers,they change the meanings of the words and very wisely make us accept that we are wrong and eventually win us psycolgically and physically.
 
so be very carefull when you use anyword for our muslim brothers because your utterance of those words defeats the  muslim community psycologically.they make you call yourself terrorist.so be carefull
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martha
 
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Quote martha Replybullet Posted: 27 October 2009 at 6:10am
Salams,
I think we should be careful about this and please excuse my views if you do not agree.
 
This is not really about western propaganda. Nor are we limiting suicide bombings to the awful situation in Palestine. I completely agree it is wrong the way Israel are handling this and fully understand why the Palestinians act on the situation.
 
We are all aware that when men sign up to the armed forces they do so knowing full well they might die. It is a human right for any individual to decide on this. It comes perhaps from a sense of loyalty to their country and has nothing to do with personal heroism.They also know they might have to kill.  Again, one has to scrutinise his own conscience. Unlike other past wars western men are no longer conscripted into the forces...(unless you talk about the Swiss who I believe make it compulsory for men and women to do basic war training, and also Israel do the same and they serve for I think 2 years.)
 
 When refering to the 1st and 2nd World War conscripted men had no choice but to drop bombs and kill civilians...either on Japan, Germany, Great Britain, France etc etc etc .
 
We should also remember  that THOSE that voluntered for these wars came from ALL religious backgrounds, yet still fought regardless. Are any of you aware that thousands of blacks and asians in the UK fought in these wars? Not all soldiers were CHristian were they? We should remember this.
 
I am not in agreeance with any current war, regardless of who instigates it. But with wars there are inevitable deaths. War is odious. But wars will continue.
 
With suicide bombers they are random acts which kill people who even are on the same side. That kind of war  is based on misconcieved ideas about ISlam only. Nowhere does it say that jihad has anything to do with oil or politics. Jihad has it's purpose, I fully understand the truths in that. 
 
With western wars it is a combination of several things, religion can be included if you like. This kind of war can also be wrong but not always. For example Hitler wanted to rule the world and take away all freedoms. People everywhere did not want a dictator. Had he succeeded we would not now enjoy the freedom we have in Europe to make personal decisions. Ultimately the whole world have suffered the same fate. Blacks, asians, jews,christians, muslims would all have died by his hands. In fact he would have killed everyone that 'didnt fit in'. He wanted a blonde haired,blue eyed aryan society and 20,000 of them were born under the Lebensborn system. He wanted nothing else. Even the german children that didnt fit in were also murdered.
Can you imagine a world without muslims? Of course not. So Hitler had to be stopped. In these intstances war is sometimes necessary. I believe Allah made it possible to stop this happening.
 
So how can we have a legalised Islamic war where it is organised? Is that possible when muslims come from all corners of the earth, from different cultures and with different views? I somehow doubt it. Would that then be allowed under ISlamic conditions? Views please:)
 
In essence legalised war ( I use this term lightly by the way)is a form of organised chaos. At times it is necessary and at times it is not wrong.
 
 
some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set
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Akhe Abdullah
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Quote Akhe Abdullah Replybullet Posted: 27 October 2009 at 10:18am
Salams Martha,I hear you! and thanks for you reply.This topic of disscusion is for Groups Men (Brothers).But since we let one join already I will comment on your reply.Speaking of Hilter the topic is about sucide bombers.You using Hiltler as an example of taking away peoples freedom, good job! but it seems the west wants to force theirs on others,Jihad has its purpose in this situation,you cant get yourself right if you are being opressed by others right.
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Quote fais Replybullet Posted: 27 October 2009 at 10:13pm
Salam,
 
the topic was weather the term sucide bombers is correct or not,and i explained in my way how west changes the meanings of words,its kind of psycological war.
 
allied forces joined hands to suppress the agression of hitlor and japanese but were they correct,what british did in india was done by hitlor in germany what is the difference between the two.after the the second world war allied forces shared the colonies which was held by natsis and japanese,so plz martha dont say that allied forces fought for their freedom only,they fought for their interest in colonies.i dont find any difference between natsis and british,what british did in india can never be forgeten by indians,they killed innocent they raped woman,they created fight between hindus and muslims the effect is still we face,has anyone heard a state called gujrat in india,hear in the last riots more than 1000 muslims were burnt alive and thousands of houses were set fire,muslim women were made stripped and raped by rioting mobs,the seed of bitterness british sowed we indian muslims still paying the cost of it.
 
supporters of allied forces say that they fought for their freedom another word you see they found for their deadly crimes.
 
who gave the right to allied forces to vacate 7lakh arab muslims in one night  from palastine to relocate the jews,u see another word relocate they have,its not they wanted to relocate only they wanted a base in the middle east and now they do whatever they want through their illegitimate baby ISRAEL which they have declared legitimate cause they have power,where is the state of palastine in the map can anyone say,this is another kind of psycological war where u wipe out the existance of a state when there is nothing in the map what you will fight for our children will feel we are fighting for a land which never belonged to to us.
 
martha gave an example of african fighting in the world war,i would like to inform that british ruled a nation like india with merely 20000 british officers the rest army was indian which includes muslims and hindus,these people did not fight because they thought british were right they fought beacause they were paid for it,it was their bread and butter.so you can say that they master in using your own people against you in exchange of food,comfort,or any unislamic thing.
 
i hope someone reply my post. 
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martha
 
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Quote martha Replybullet Posted: 28 October 2009 at 12:24pm
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah

Salams Martha,I hear you! and thanks for you reply.This topic of disscusion is for Groups Men (Brothers).But since we let one join already I will comment on your reply.Speaking of Hilter the topic is about sucide bombers.You using Hiltler as an example of taking away peoples freedom, good job! but it seems the west wants to force theirs on others,Jihad has its purpose in this situation,you cant get yourself right if you are being opressed by others right.
 
Walaikum assalam Akhe,
I apologise, I did not see this post was in the brothers section. I just read it and joined in, so sorry for that.
But you are right that you should not oppress others. Smile
I know the talk was of suicide bombers so am a bit confused as to why others started talking about the western wars? Not to worry. No big deal.
some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set
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martha
 
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Quote martha Replybullet Posted: 28 October 2009 at 12:53pm
Salams BRother Fais,
 I am tired and have had a long day but I reply this once out of courtesy. Akhe has pointed out that this topic is in the brothers forum, so I shall not reply again in this topic.
BUt before I log off I want to say that muslims and hindus were fighting eachother long before the British went to India. Also both religious groups wanted a separation and my understanding is that this was why India became split to India and Pakistan. It was not forced on them.
 
The indians that came to the UK came because they wanted  to, and I have heard many older asian people say that India was better under British rule. I cannot comment on that. I know that British soldiers did some very bad things in India, but so did muslims and hindus and they are of same race! And you cannot blame the way muslims and hindus act today is becuase of the fault of the British! We left long time ago. So why are people not peaceful with eachother now in India and Pakistan? Please do not say that it is because of Afghanistan and Kashmir...people can still be kind to their neighbour. It is like I say to any asian muslim brother..'I hate you because my Pak husband was bad'. WOuld I be right to do that? No of course not, so I do not.
 
So those asians that fought in the 2nd world war WANTED to, it was not about money, they already had come here and were working. Those that were in the British army mnay years before did it for the money, just like the Pak boys and men today join and fight alongside the taliban because they are paid for it and they can provide for their family better.
 
The British and the Nazi's were not the same at all. OK, 2hundred years ago Britain ruled a large part of the world. BUt when people insisted we give the countries back then we did. Hitler would not have done that at all.  And the 2nd world war was not to do with colonies. It was mainly faught in Europe and then spread other parts. We opted for the war when HItler invaded Poland.
 
I find it incredulous that asians can still blame Britian today for what happened so long ago. Also please remember that the British public and government give SO much money to both Pak and India today when they still have so many problems. We have no interest in either of these countries, certainly the general British public do not, so why do they give so generously? You obviously do not know the true feeling of British people and rely upon stories of old to forge your views.
 
The fact is many asians still choose to come here for economic reasons. SO they hate us so much they are trying to punish us now? THey have no other reason to come here if they dont like us.
 
It is so wrong to blame the existing BRitains for the faults of their forefathers.
 
Lol, I think I have said enough. DO not be offended by my words Fais:) I will refrain from replying to this topic again as its brothers section.  See you in another topicSmile
 
(sorry admin that I have replied here)
some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set
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Saladin
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Quote Saladin Replybullet Posted: 30 October 2009 at 7:44am
Suicide or martyrdom, whatever - you kill someone you're not supposed to kill even on the battle field, you're in big trouble.
 
And btw men's section alrite but not men's room.
'Trust everyone but not the devil in them'
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