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believer
 
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bullet Posted: 17 June 2008 at 7:52am
Ezekiel 26
 
3Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Tyrus, and will cause many nations to come up against thee, as the sea causeth his waves to come up.
 
cause many nations
 
Immanuel means "GOD with us"  Most Chrisitans do in fact consider Jesus as GOD with us.  Prophecy fulfilled. 
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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bullet Posted: 17 June 2008 at 11:04pm
Originally posted by believer

 Immanuel means "GOD with us"  Most Chrisitans do in fact consider Jesus as GOD with us.  Prophecy fulfilled. 
 
The instruction to the lady of Ahaz, was to name the child Immanuel. She was to call him Immanuel. She might have done that. Nobody knows.
 
But our dear lady Maryam did not name her child Immanuel. Neither did Joseph. And the angel also forgot to tell her the name Immanuel. Instead gave her some other name. Tongue Prophecy would have come true only if Jesus had really been named Immanuel but unfortunately this did not come true.
 
Considering Jesus wrongly "God with us" does not prove that his name was Immanuel. He wasn't called El Immanu. LOL
 
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BMZ


Edited by BMZ - 17 June 2008 at 11:06pm
Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."
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bullet Posted: 18 June 2008 at 8:16pm

Question: "Why wasn't Jesus named Immanuel?"

Answer: In the prophecy of the virgin birth, Isaiah 7:14, the prophet Isaiah declared, "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call Him Immanuel." This prophecy refers to the birth of Jesus in Matthew 1:22-23, "All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 'The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel' which means, 'God with us.'" This does not mean, however, that the Messiah’s name would actually be Immanuel.

There are many names given to Jesus using the phrase “He shall be called,” both in the Old and New Testaments. This was a common way of saying that people would refer to Him in these various ways. Isaiah prophesied of the Messiah, “His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6). None of these titles was Jesus’ actual name, but these were descriptions people would use to refer to Him forever. Luke tells us Jesus “shall be called the Son of the Highest” (Luke 1:32) and “son of God” (1:35) and “the prophet of the Highest” (1:76), but none of these was His name.

In two different places, the prophet Jeremiah says in referring to the coming Messiah, “And this is His name by which He shall be called, JEHOVAH, OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS” (Jeremiah 23:5-6; 33:15-16). Now we know that God, the Father, is named Jehovah. Jesus was never actually called Jehovah as though it was His name, but His role was that of bringing the righteousness of Jehovah to those who would believe in Him, exchanging that righteousness for our sin (2 Corinthians 5:21). Therefore, this is one of the many titles or “names” which belong to Him.

In the same way, to say that Jesus would be called "Immanuel" means Jesus is God and that He dwelt among us in His incarnation and that He is always with us. Jesus was God in the flesh. Jesus was God making His dwelling among us (John 1:1,14). No, Jesus' name was not Immanuel, but Jesus was the meaning of Immanuel, "God with us." Immanuel is one of the many titles for Jesus, a description of who He is.

Admin: to reduce the font size, (on edit page) highlight the text and choose the proper size on 'size' dropdown menu



Edited by icforumadmin - 18 June 2008 at 9:44pm
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bullet Posted: 18 June 2008 at 8:17pm
Sorry the font is so big!!  Is there a way to make it smaller?
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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bullet Posted: 19 June 2008 at 7:10am
Cain went out away from GOD.   He was wandering in the sense that he was not with GOD.  A person can be sucessful build a city in this world but have lost all in the next world when they are sent away from GOD.
Wandering means to roam around in the world, not settling down. How can it mean going away from God? furthermore the bible says
 
Genesis 4:10 The LORD said, "What have you done? Listen! Your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground. 11 Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand. 12 When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer ON THE EARTH."
The phrase ON THE EARTH implies he was supposed to wander or Earth. It is pretty clear. Furthermore
Genesis, Chapter No. 4, Verse No. 12, it says… ‘God told Cain: you will never be able to settle...."
That also refers to settling on Earth.
LOL!  if you consider 3 months sitting on the throne!!  LOL!!
The Bible does not say that no one will sit on the throne for more than 3 months. It only says that no one will be able to sit on the throne. 3 months, 5 months, a year, the period does not matter. The fact is, no one was supposed to sit on the throne according to the Bible, and the Jehoiachin's son sat on it, according to the Bible.
3Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Tyrus, and will cause many nations to come up against thee, as the sea causeth his waves to come up.
 
cause many nations
Let me quote Ezekiel 26
7For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, a king of kings, from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people.

 8He shall slay with the sword thy daughters in the field: and he shall make a fort against thee, and cast a mount against thee, and lift up the buckler against thee.

 9And he shall set engines of war against thy walls, and with his axes he shall break down thy towers.

 10By reason of the abundance of his horses their dust shall cover thee: thy walls shall shake at the noise of the horsemen, and of the wheels, and of the chariots, when he shall enter into thy gates, as men enter into a city wherein is made a breach.

 11With the hoofs of his horses shall he tread down all thy streets: he shall slay thy people by the sword, and thy strong garrisons shall go down to the ground.

 12And they shall make a spoil of thy riches, and make a prey of thy merchandise: and they shall break down thy walls, and destroy thy pleasant houses: and they shall lay thy stones and thy timber and thy dust in the midst of the water.

 13And I will cause the noise of thy songs to cease; and the sound of thy harps shall be no more heard.

 14And I will make thee like the top of a rock: thou shalt be a place to spread nets upon; thou shalt be built no more: for I the LORD have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.

God is specifically mentioning Nebuchadrezzar saying that he will pretty much destroy Tyres. Did that realy happen? Has the prophecy been fulfilled?
Bible has many other unfulfilled prophecies. Let me just quote Genesis
people.
Genesis

  1. God says that if Adam eats from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, then the day that he does so, he will die. But later Adam eats the forbidden fruit (3:6) and yet lives for another 930 years (5:5). 2:17
  2. God promises Abram and his descendants all of the land of Canaan. But both history and the bible (Acts 7:5 and Heb.11:13) show that God's promise to Abram was not fulfilled. 13:15, 15:18, 17:8, 28:13-14
  3. God promises Abram's descendants the land of Canaan from the Nile to the Euphrates. But according to Acts 7:5 and Heb.11:13
  4. God's promise to Abram was not fulfilled. 15:18

  5. God promises to make Isaac's descendents as numerous as "the stars of heaven", which, of course, never happened. The Jews have always been, and will always be, a small minority. 26:4

  6. God renames Jacob twice (32:28, 35:10 ). God says that Jacob will henceforth be called Israel, but the Bible continues to call him Jacob anyway (47:28-29). And even God himself calls him Jacob in 46:2. 32:28, 35:10

  7. God calls Jacob Jacob, though he said in Gen.32:28 and 35:10 that he would no longer be called Jacob but Israel. 46:2

  8. God promises to bring Jacob safely back from Egypt, but Jacob dies in Egypt (Gen.47:28-29) 46:3

  9. The tribe of Judah will reign "until Shiloh," but Israel's first king (Saul) was from the tribe of Benjamin (Acts 13:21), and most of the time after this prophecy there was no king at all. 49:10

  10. Contrary to the prophecy in 48:21, Joseph died in Egypt, not Israel. Gen.50:24

Note that these verses are from Genesis only. You can only imagine how many unfulfilled prophecies are there in the Bible.



Edited by _ALI_ - 19 June 2008 at 7:13am
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bullet Posted: 22 June 2008 at 8:25am
Originally posted by robin

OUTSTANDING PROPHECIES IN THE BIBLE CONCERNING JESUS AND THEIR FULFILLMENT

Prophecy then fulfillment

Gen. 49:10 Born of the tribe of Judah
Matt. 1:2-16
Luke 3:23-33
Heb. 7:14

Note from Moderation: Dumping is not allowed on this forum. If you have specific proof verses that you would like to show and argue for, then please provide them. It is an unreasonable request to either expect someone to check every verse and claim, or to simply accept these "assertions" as fact, hence the act of "dumping" is not permitted. I also noticed that you have failed to reply to those who did take the time to read your list and discuss your contribution. Be warned that this is a discussion forum.

 
Sorry do not have the time at the moment!
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bullet Posted: 23 June 2008 at 1:17am
Originally posted by _ALI_

Salam

Most of the fulfillments of the Bible are given in the Bible itself. So suppose I write a book saying X King will die when he is 42. And in the next page, I write that X king dies at 42. That is not a miracle. Same is the case with the Bible. But supposing that all the prophecies of the Bible are true then giving even 1 unfulfilled prophecy will prove that Bible as a whole is not the word of God. I can give a list of unfulfilled prophecies in the Bible

1-  Genesis, Chapter No. 4, Verse No. 12, it says… ‘God told Cain: you will never be able to settle you will be a wanderer.’ Few Verses later on Genesis, Chapter No.4, Verse No.17, says…‘Cain built up a city’ – unfulfilled prophecy.

2-  If you read Jeremiah, Chapter No.36, Verse No.30,  it says that…‘Jehoiachin the father of Jehoiachin… no one will be able to sit on his throne - The throne of David, no one will be able to sit after Jehoiachin.’ If you read later on, II Kings, Chapter No 24, Verse No 6, it says that… ‘Jehoiachin after he died, later on Jehoiachin sat on the throne’ - Unfulfilled prophecy.

3-  One is sufficient to prove it is not the word of God - I can give plenty. If you read Ezekiel, Chapter No 26, it says that…‘Nebuchader, he will destroyed Tyre.’ We come to know that Alexander the great, was the person who destroyed Tyre - Unfulfilled prophecy.

4-  Isaiah, Chapter No. 7, Verse No 14, says, prophesying of…‘The coming of a person who will be born to a virgin - his name shall be Emmanuel.’ They say… the Christians - it refers to Jesus Christ peace be upon him. Born to a virgin - the Hebrew word there is ‘amla’, which means not ‘a virgin’- ‘a young lady.’ The word for ‘virgin’ in Hebrew is, ‘baitula’, which is not there. Even if you agree - we are using concordance - we agree… ‘Virgin’… ‘Virgin’ - No problem. It says… ‘He will be called Immanuel.’ No where in the Bible is Jesus Christ peace be upon him, is called as Immanuel - Unfulfilled prophecy.

I can give several, plenty unfulfilled prophecies - One is sufficient to prove the Bible wrong - I have given a few. "

 
Just to be going on with:-
 

2-   If you read Jeremiah, Chapter No.36, Verse No.30,  it says that…‘Jehoiachin the father of Jehoiachin… no one will be able to sit on his throne - The throne of David, no one will be able to sit after Jehoiachin.’ If you read later on, II Kings, Chapter No 24, Verse No 6, it says that… ‘Jehoiachin after he died, later on Jehoiachin sat on the throne’ - Unfulfilled prophecy.

 

 

JEHOIAKIM EXPERIENCED A DISGRACEFUL DEATH AND WAS NOT BURIED IN THE TOMBS OF THE KINGS AT JERUSALEM, NO MORE THAN AN ASS WOULD BE. (JER. 22:18, 19) HIS SON JEHOIACHIN (OR, CONIAH) REIGNED ONLY THREE MONTHS AND 10 DAYS IN JERUSALEM AND THEN SURRENDERED TO THE BABYLONIANS AND WAS DEPORTED TO BABYLON, FROM WHERE HE DID NOT RETURN. (JER. 22:24-30; 37:1) DOWN TO THE DESTRUCTION OF THE REBUILT CITY OF JERUSALEM BY THE ROMANS IN 70 C.E., NO DESCENDANT OF JEHOIACHIN, THE SON OF JEHOIAKIM, THE KING OF JUDAH, MOUNTED A ROYAL THRONE IN JERUSALEM. JEREMIAH’S PROPHETIC WORDS, WRITTEN IN HIS UNDERGROUND LOCATION, DID NOT FAIL TO COME TRUE!

 

 

3-   One is sufficient to prove it is not the word of God - I can give plenty. If you read Ezekiel, Chapter No 26, it says that…‘Nebuchader, he will destroyed Tyre.’ We come to know that Alexander the great, was the person who destroyed Tyre - Unfulfilled prophecy.

 

 According to the Jewish historian Josephus, the Babylonian siege of Tyre lasted 13 years. (Josephus, Against Apion, Book I, Chapter 21) History does not record how effective Nebuchadnezzar’s efforts were, although the loss of Tyrian property and lives must have been great. A later prophetic pronouncement through Zechariah indicated that God would destroy the city completely. (Zechariah 9:3, 4) This prophecy was fulfilled nearly 200 years after it was given. By then those living in the nearby island city of Tyre felt secure behind its formidable walls. However, in 332 B.C.E., the forces of Alexander the Great overthrew that island city, using debris from mainland Tyre to build a causeway leading to the island part of Tyre (as Tyre was in two parts, mainland part and island pert). Since then this artificial peninsula has been enlarged by sand deposited there by the water. Moreover, in the present seaport village, fishermen can be seen drying their nets—another fulfillment of prophecy. Certainly, Jehovah’s Word is sure!

Nebuchadnezzar destroyed the mainland half of the city of tyre but never got to the Island part (Alexander did) thus he did not destroy the city!!!!

Prophecy fulfilled

 

 

4-  Isaiah, Chapter No. 7, Verse No 14, says, prophesying of…‘The coming of a person who will be born to a virgin - his name shall be Emmanuel.’ They say… the Christians - it refers to Jesus Christ peace be upon him. Born to a virgin - the Hebrew word there is ‘amla’, which means not ‘a virgin’- ‘a young lady.’ The word for ‘virgin’ in Hebrew is, ‘baitula’, which is not there. Even if you agree - we are using concordance - we agree… ‘Virgin’… ‘Virgin’ - No problem. It says… ‘He will be called Immanuel.’

No where in the Bible is Jesus Christ peace be upon him, is called as Immanuel - Unfulfilled prophecy.

 

MATTHEW 1:18-23

DURING THE TIME HIS MOTHER MARY WAS PROMISED IN MARRIAGE TO JOSEPH, SHE WAS FOUND TO BE PREGNANT BY HOLY SPIRIT BEFORE THEY WERE UNITED. 19 HOWEVER, JOSEPH HER HUSBAND, BECAUSE HE WAS RIGHTEOUS AND DID NOT WANT TO MAKE HER A PUBLIC SPECTACLE, INTENDED TO DIVORCE HER SECRETLY. 20 BUT AFTER HE HAD THOUGHT THESE THINGS OVER, LOOK! JEHOVAH’S ANGEL APPEARED TO HIM IN A DREAM, SAYING: “JOSEPH, SON OF DAVID, DO NOT BE AFRAID TO TAKE MARY YOUR WIFE HOME, FOR THAT WHICH HAS BEEN BEGOTTEN IN HER IS BY HOLY SPIRIT. 21 SHE WILL GIVE BIRTH TO A SON, AND YOU MUST CALL HIS NAME JESUS, FOR HE WILL SAVE HIS PEOPLE FROM THEIR SINS.” 22 ALL THIS ACTUALLY CAME ABOUT FOR THAT TO BE FULFILLED WHICH WAS SPOKEN BY JEHOVAH THROUGH HIS PROPHET, SAYING: 23 “LOOK! THE VIRGIN WILL BECOME PREGNANT AND WILL GIVE BIRTH TO A SON, AND THEY WILL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL,” WHICH MEANS, WHEN TRANSLATED, “WITH US IS GOD.”

Prophecy fulfilled



Edited by robin - 23 June 2008 at 1:25pm
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bullet Posted: 23 June 2008 at 9:24am
Originally posted by believer

Question: "Why wasn't Jesus named Immanuel?"

Answer: In the prophecy of the virgin birth, Isaiah 7:14, the prophet Isaiah declared, "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call Him Immanuel." This prophecy refers to the birth of Jesus in Matthew 1:22-23, "All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 'The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel' which means, 'God with us.'" This does not mean, however, that the Messiah’s name would actually be Immanuel.

There are many names given to Jesus using the phrase “He shall be called,” both in the Old and New Testaments. This was a common way of saying that people would refer to Him in these various ways. Isaiah prophesied of the Messiah, “His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6). None of these titles was Jesus’ actual name, but these were descriptions people would use to refer to Him forever. Luke tells us Jesus “shall be called the Son of the Highest” (Luke 1:32) and “son of God” (1:35) and “the prophet of the Highest” (1:76), but none of these was His name.

In two different places, the prophet Jeremiah says in referring to the coming Messiah, “And this is His name by which He shall be called, JEHOVAH, OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS” (Jeremiah 23:5-6; 33:15-16). Now we know that God, the Father, is named Jehovah. Jesus was never actually called Jehovah as though it was His name, but His role was that of bringing the righteousness of Jehovah to those who would believe in Him, exchanging that righteousness for our sin (2 Corinthians 5:21). Therefore, this is one of the many titles or “names” which belong to Him.

In the same way, to say that Jesus would be called "Immanuel" means Jesus is God and that He dwelt among us in His incarnation and that He is always with us. Jesus was God in the flesh. Jesus was God making His dwelling among us (John 1:1,14). No, Jesus' name was not Immanuel, but Jesus was the meaning of Immanuel, "God with us." Immanuel is one of the many titles for Jesus, a description of who He is.

Admin: to reduce the font size, (on edit page) highlight the text and choose the proper size on 'size' dropdown menu

 
Because in Jesus case it is a title showing that God was acting towards the Jews via him (Jesus) as His (God's)agent, much like Moses. 
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