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|Topic: THE BIBLE SAYS TO WORSHIP JESUS IS IDOLAT|
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Joined: 27 January 2009
Online Status: Offline
|Posted: 11 February 2009 at 9:30am|
“You are another perfect example of one who has been told so many "myths" about the Roman Catholic Church, and devout Catholics. I pity your ignorance, as it is very widespread among Protestants and is not completely your fault. Although it would serve you well to research and learn what you are saying before spreading more deceptions. Here is what Catholics truly believe....and yes, it is a bit lengthy. It may take five or ten minutes to read it, but if you want to be truthful and knowledgeable in your posts which reach virtually every country in the world, I would think that you, as a Christian, would take the time to read and absorb it.”
I think you need to research before you try and correct someone.
There was very little controversy over the canon of the Old Testament. Hebrew believers recognized God’s messengers, and accepted their writings as inspired of God. While there was undeniably some debate in regards to the Old Testament canon, by 250 A.D. there was nearly universal agreement on the canon of Hebrew Scripture. The only issue that remained was the Apocrypha, with some debate and discussion continuing today. The vast majority of Hebrew scholars considered the Apocrypha to be good historical and religious documents, but not on the same level as the Hebrew Scriptures.
For the New Testament, the process of the recognition and collection began in the first centuries of the Christian church. Very early on, some of the New Testament books were being recognized. Paul considered Luke’s writings to be as authoritative as the Old Testament (1 Timothy 5:18; see also Deuteronomy 25:4 and Luke 10:7). Peter recognized Paul’s writings as Scripture (2 Peter 3:15-16). Some of the books of the New Testament were being circulated among the churches (Colossians 4:16; 1 Thessalonians 5:27). Clement of Rome mentioned at least eight New Testament books (A.D. 95). Ignatius of Antioch acknowledged about seven books (A.D. 115). Polycarp, a disciple of John the Apostle, acknowledged 15 books (A.D. 108). Later, Irenaeus mentioned 21 books (A.D. 185). Hippolytus recognized 22 books (A.D. 170-235). The New Testament books receiving the most controversy were Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 John, and 3 John.
The first “canon” was the Muratorian Canon, which was compiled in (A.D. 170). The Muratorian Canon included all of the New Testament books except Hebrews, James, and 3 John. In A.D. 363, the Council of Laodicea stated that only the Old Testament (along with the Apocrypha) and the 27 books of the New Testament were to be read in the churches. The Council of Hippo (A.D. 393) and the Council of Carthage (A.D. 397) also affirmed the same 27 books as authoritative.
Question #1: Does Jesus approve of calling the leaders of the church, "Father"?
Answer: Matthew 23:9 o YES NO o
"Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. Matthew 23:9
2. Praying repetitive words using Rosary beads is forbidden.
Historical note: Roman Catholics borrowed the idea of praying with beads from the pagan religions who were already using them hundreds of years before: In 456 AD, Hindus are thought to have introduced the concept of praying with beads to the world. The earliest reference to a rosary (boberkhas) is in their "Jain Canon" (456 AD) These boberkhas had various numbers of beads 6,9,12,18,36 (any sub-multiple of 108) Islam (610 AD) uses a rosary of 99 beads, one for each of the names of God. Buddhists have 108 prayer beads on the string. The Rosary is of pagan origin and no Christian prior to 1000 AD used beads to pray.
Question #1: Did Jesus forbid repetitive prayer using Rosary Beads?
Answer: Matthew 6:7 o YES NO o
"And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. Matthew 6:7
Question #1: Did Jesus have brothers and sisters from the womb of Mary?
Answer: Matthew 13:55-56 o YES NO o
"Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? "And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this man get all these things?" Matthew 13:55-56
Question #2: Did Joseph begin normal sexual relations with his wife after Jesus was born?
Answer: Matthew 1:24-25 o YES NO o
"And Joseph awoke from his sleep and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took Mary as his wife, but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus." Matthew 1:24-25
Question #3: The Bible says there is only one mediator between God and man. Is mary that one mediator?
Answer: 1 Timothy 2:5 o YES NO o
"For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." 1 Timothy 2:5
Question #4: Catholics engage in endless praise of Mary. When a woman praised Jesus’ mother to his face, did Jesus commend encourage this woman to continue praising Mary?
Answer: Luke 11:27-28 o YES NO o
"While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, "Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed." But He said, "On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it."" Luke 11:27-28
4. Every Christian drinks of the communion cup
FACT: Although Roman Catholics are permitted to eat the bread (body) of the Lord’s Supper, they are generally not allowed to drink the wine (blood) of the Lord’s Supper, as any Catholic knows from his own experience from attending Mass. (Except on rare special occasions.) The laity (the people in the pews) are withheld the cup of the Lord and it is usually reserved for church leaders only. Yes there are denominations within the Roman Catholic "communion" where some RC sects actually offer the juice, but most Mass attending Catholics know they rarely drink the cup of wine.
Historical note: Two early popes condemned withholding the cup, (Pope Leo I [died 461 AD] and Pope Gelasius [died 496 Ad]; but in the 12th century the practice was begun, and formally approved by the Catholic Council of Constance in 1415 AD. So for the first 1000 years, the Catholics in the Pews drink the cup, then the Pope changed this apostolic tradition.
Question #1: Did Christ and the apostle Paul command that every Christian should drink of the communion cup?
Answer: Matthew 26:26-28; 1 Corinthians 11:23-28 o YES NO o
To the disciples: "Drink from it, all of you" Matthew 26:27
To the whole church in Corinth: "in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup." 1 Corinthians 11:28
5. All Christians are saints
FACT: The Pope says only very special dead Catholic people qualify to be called "saints". For example, Pope John Paul II could not make Mother Teresa a saint (official canonization) until after she was dead. The average Catholic in the pew is never called a "saint" dead or alive! In fact if a pew dwelling Catholic started calling himself a "saint", he would be rebuked by the parish priest!
Question #1: Was every living Christian in the church in Corinth called a saint?
Answer: 1 Corinthians 1:2 o YES NO o
"To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours" 1 Corinthians 1:2
Question #2: Did Paul write the book of Ephesians to dead saints?
Answer: Ephesians 1:1 o YES NO o
"Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus" Ephesians 1:1
Question #3: Was the average Christian in the church at Philippi called a saint, in distinction to bishops and deacons?
Answer: Philippians 1:1 o YES NO o
"Paul and Timothy, bond-servants of Christ Jesus, To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, including the overseers and deacons" Philippians 1:1
Question #4: Was every Christian living in Rome called to be a saint?
Answer: Romans 1:7 o YES NO o
"to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ." Romans 1:7
6. All Christians are priests
FACT: The Pope decided to reserve the title of "priest" to worn by church leaders only. The average pew dwelling Catholic never refer to themselves as "priests". In fact if a lay Catholic started calling himself a "priest", he would be rebuked by "the parish Priest"!
Question #1: Did Jesus make all Christians to be priests, including the average member in the pew?
Answer: 1 Peter 2:5,9; Revelation 1:6; 5:10 o YES NO o
"you (all Christians) also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. " 1 Peter 2:5
"But you (all Christians) are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; " 1 Peter 2:9
"Jesus has made us (all Christians) to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father—to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen." Revelation 1:6
"You have made them (all Christians) to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth." Revelation 5:10
7. Bishops must be Married.
FACT: In 1079 AD celibacy was first enforced for priests and bishops by Pope Gregory VII. Before this time, they were permitted to marry.
Question #1: Does the Bible teach that a bishop (overseer) must be married AND ALSO have children as one of the conditions of being qualified to be a bishop?
Answer: 1 Timothy 3:2-5 o YES NO o
"A bishop, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?)" 1 Timothy 3:2-5
Question #2: In the very next chapter of the Bible after bishops are told they must be married with children, does the Holy Spirit warn that "forbidding to marry" is a "doctrine of demons"?
Answer: 1 Timothy 4:1-3 o YES NO o
"But the Holy Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth." 1 Timothy 4:1-3
8. Peter was married
FACT: Most Catholics believe that Apostle Peter was the first Pope and was not married. As one Roman Catholic leader said, "if Peter had a wife when he first met Jesus, he got rid of her quick!"
Question #1: Did Peter have a wife?
Answer: Mark 1:30 o YES NO o
"Now Simon’s mother-in-law was lying sick with a fever; and immediately they spoke to Jesus about her." Mark 1:30
Question #2: Did Paul say all the apostles including Peter had a right to be married?
Answer: 1 Corinthians 9:5 o YES NO o
"Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas?" 1 Corinthians 9:5
9. Latin Mass forbidden
FACT: For over 1000 years, the Roman Catholic church often conducts their mass services entirely in the Latin language, when no one sitting in the pews understands the Latin language. Most Roman Catholics who have sat through such a Latin Mass service have wondered what is going on. It was not until 1965 AD that the Pope finally understood 1 Cor 14:19 and allowed masses to conducted in the same vernacular language of the local people. (English in North America)
Question #1: Is Latin Mass forbidden in the Bible when no one in the pews understands Latin?
Answer: 1 Corinthians 14:19 o YES NO o
10. Worshipping idols, icons and images violates the 2nd commandment.
FACT: Catholics regularly bow down to idols, icons and images of Jesus, Mary and the apostles, kissing the feet of the statues and praying to them.
Historical note: The Pope deleted the 2nd of the 10 commandments so they could use statues & images in worship. They split the 10th commandment on coveting into two commandments so they could still have 10 in number. Don’t believe this? Look at the list of 10 commandments published by the Roman Catholic church! The issue here is not how the Ten Commandments are numbered, rather the issue is that most published lists of the 10 commandments do not include the words, "you shall not for yourself an idol". Open your Catholic Bible and look for yourself!
Question #1: Does the 2nd commandment approve of bowing down and kissing idols?
Answer: Exodus 20:4 o YES NO o
"You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. You shall not worship them or serve them." Exodus 20:4-5
11. Every Christian can understand the Bible by merely read it.
Question #1: Do the scriptures say that when anyone reads the Bible, they can understand for themselves?
Answer: Ephesians 3:4 o YES NO o
"By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ" Ephesians 3:4
12. Human tradition and man made doctrine is apostasy
FACT: The Pope teaches that he can change what is in the Bible if he wants.
Question #1: Did Jesus say it was OK for man to change what the word of God teaches for man-made Catholic doctrine?
Answer: Mark 7:7-9 o YES NO o
"‘But in vain do they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’ "Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men." He was also saying to them, "You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition." Mark 7:7-9
Conclusion: How the Catholic church views the Bible
Below are the kinds of replies you can expect from a Roman Catholic priest if you ask him about the contents of this Bible study.
· Yes Christ and Paul did command every Christian to drink of the communion cup in Matthew 26:26-28; 1 Corinthians 11:23-28. And Yes I know that two early popes condemned withholding the cup, (Pope Leo I [died 461 AD] and Pope Gelasius [died 496 Ad]; but in the 12th century the practice was begun, and formally approved by the Catholic Council of Constance in 1415 AD.
· Was every living Christian in the church in Corinth called a saint?
· Yes I know that in the Bible (1 Corinthians 1:2; Ephesians 1:1; Philippians 1:1; Romans 1:7) every Christian was a saint and every saint was a Christian. Yes I agree, the Bible uses the word saint as interchangeably synonymous with being a Christian, but the Roman Catholic church has the power to change the Bible.
· Yes I know that in the apostolic church (1 Peter 2:5,9; Revelation 1:6; 5:10), every Christian was a priest and the two terms are used interchangeably synonymous with being a Christian, but the Roman Catholic church decided that only leaders should be called priests.
· Yes I know that the Bible appears to teach that 1 Timothy 3:2-5 bishops must be married with believing children, but you can’t even understand the Bible anyway, why do you ask? Just trust me because only Catholic priests can understand the Bible.
· Yes I have read 1 Timothy 4:1-3, and is seems to condemn forbidding the marriage of Catholic priests, but the Pope decided that unmarried men are more holy than married men.
· Yes I know that Mark 1:30; 1 Corinthians 9:5 say that Peter had a wife 23 years after Christ died on the cross (53 AD), but Pope Gregory VII decided in 1079 AD from that time onward, that church leaders cannot marry.
· Yes I know that sitting through a Latin Mass service can be very boring for many Catholics in the pews. And yes I know that 1 Corinthians 14:19 condemns conducting a church service in a language the average member does not understand, but the Pope decided that Latin sounds real holy and has both historical and mystical qualities.
· Yes I know that the Roman Catholic church deleted the 2nd commandment (Exodus 20:4) in order to hid from the masses God’s condemnation of bowing down and kissing images of Mary and Peter, but Mary revealed herself to us in a vision.
· Yes I know Ephesians 3:4 plainly seems to say that when you read the Bible by yourself, you can have the same insight that the apostle Paul had into spiritual things, but we Catholic priests cannot teach all our false doctrines that contradict the Bible unless we convince you that you can’t understand the Bible unless the priest helps you.
· Yes I know that human traditions that contradict the Bible are condemned in Mark 7:7-9, but all the doctrines that contradict the Bible which the Pope through up were revealed to him directly by Christ and therefore, although they contradict the Bible, they are divinely approved by Christ himself.
· You really shouldn’t be reading the Bible anyway. And while we are talking about it, what else do you want me to teach you about what the Bible says?
Edited by OneWay - 11 February 2009 at 10:42am
Joined: 03 August 2008
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
|Posted: 11 February 2009 at 5:41pm|
I won't even bother with "quoting" the garbage you just posted. Suffice it to say that you are woefully misinformed regarding the Catholic Church. I'll touch on just two of your misconceptions.
1. Catholics receive the Sacred Blood as well as the Body at each mass. Go observe a mass sometime if you honestly want to know the truth. I have gone to all Protestant churches to see what transpires.....so don't spread malicious lies about something you so obviously do not know.
2. Catholics have bible studies with, and WITHOUT, a priest. We have many bible studies in our homes and in the church with one of the parishioners reading and everyone discusses the scriptures we read. You are so miserably misinformed.
As for the rest of your lies and distortions, I feel nothing but pity for you. There are so many lies I don't have the time to correct them.....and I think you are either Pentacostal or Apostolic, so it would be a waste of my time to even attempt. I have visited those churches on several occasions. In summary, no, Catholics do not worship anyone but God, the Trinity. IF you are Apostolic I know you do not believe in the Trinity, but in "Jesus Only", therefore you're likely online name "OneWay." We honor them, and we believe they are in Heaven with God. We ask them to pray for us....we DON'T pray to them. Who in the name of all that's holy are YOU to tell ME I shouldn't be reading the Bible???? YOU are disgraceful, ignorant of the Catholic faith, and very, very sadly mistaken. I hope no one takes you seriously!
"FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE, NO EXPLANATION IS POSSIBLE. FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE, NO EXPLANATION IS NECESSARY."
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