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Message Icon Topic: THE BIBLE SAYS TO WORSHIP JESUS IS IDOLAT Post Reply Post New Topic
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robin
 
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Quote robin Replybullet Topic: THE BIBLE SAYS TO WORSHIP JESUS IS IDOLAT
    Posted: 06 June 2008 at 8:18pm

ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE THE WORSHIP OF JESUS CHRIST IS IDOLATRY!

 

TO WORSHIP JESUS AS GOD IS TO WORSHIP AN “ICON”!

 
A visit to almost any place of worship will reveal how many religious people have elevated creatures (humans or otherwise)  above the Creator.  How so?  By their image and icon veneration and their worship rendered to Saints, Madonnas, Crosses, some with and images of Jesus.  (See Psalm 115:2-8; 2 Corinthians 5:7; 1 John 5:21).

 

Can God, who “is spirit,” (John 4:24) and “invisible” (Colossians 1:15) be represented by a man made material image (or anything)? No.   Regardless of how imposing an icon may be, it can never match the glory of God.  So an manmade etc. image of God could never be a representation of him. (Romans 1:22, 23)  Would a person be ‘worshiping in truth’ if he approached God through some man-made icon?

 

The Bible states of Jesus Christ at 2 Cor. 4:4:

 

“… that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image (Gk.“eikon”) of God, might not shine through.”

 

Colossians 1:15

He is the image (Gk.“eikon”) of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;

 

Icon  n. (also ikon) 1 painting of Christ etc., esp. in the Eastern Church. 2 image or statue. 3 symbol on a VDU screen of a program, option, or window, esp. for selection.  iconic adj. [Greek eikon image].”-Oxford Dictionary

 

image  —n. 1 representation of an object, e.g. a statue. 2 reputation or persona of a person, company, etc. 3 appearance as seen in a mirror or through a lens. 4 mental picture or idea. 5 simile or metaphor. —v. (-ging) 1 make an image of; portray. 2 reflect, mirror. 3 describe or imagine vividly.  be the image of be or look exactly like. [Latin imago imagin-].”-Oxford Dictionary

 

 

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT IMAGE OR ICON WORSHIP!

 

Exodus 20:4

“You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or that is on the earth underneath or that is in the waters under the earth.

 

Deut 27:15

“‘Cursed is the man who makes a carved image or a molten statue, a thing detestable to Jehovah, the manufacture of the hands of a wood-and-metal worker, and who has put it in a hiding place.’

 

Isa. 42:8

“I am Jehovah. That is my name; and to no one else shall I give my own glory, neither my praise to graven images.

 

Image  - God’s firstborn Son, who later became the man Jesus, is in his Father’s image. (2 Cor 4:4) Inasmuch as that Son was obviously the one to whom God spoke in saying, “Let us make man in our image,” this likeness of the Son to his Father, the Creator, existed from when the Son was created. (Gen 1:26; John 1:1-3; Col 1:15, 16) When on earth as a perfect man, he reflected his Father’s qualities and personality to the fullest extent possible within human limitations, so he could say that “he that has seen me has seen the Father also.” (John 14:9; 5:17, 19, 30, 36; 8:28, 38, 42) This likeness, however, was certainly heightened at the time of Jesus’ resurrection to spirit life and his being granted “all authority . . . in heaven and on the earth” by his Father, Jehovah God. (1 Pet 3:18; Mtt 28:18) Since God then exalted Jesus to “a superior position,” God’s Son now reflected his Father’s glory to an even greater degree than he had before leaving the heavens to come to earth. (Php 2:9; Heb 2:9) He is now “the exact representation of [God’s] very being.”—Heb 1:2-4.

 

 
The Point!   If humans worship Jesus Christ then they worship an “image” (Gk. eikon) a “representation” a “copy” etc. which is idolatry:-

 

1 John 5:21

 “Little children, guard yourselves from idols.”

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thomasd
 
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Quote thomasd Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2008 at 5:57am
Christians do not worship icons or other man-made portrayals of God, saints, etc. Rather they are meant as a visual reminder of God's glory to focus our attention on him, in much the same way the Psalms or Proverbs do so through written word. Your connection between Jesus and icons is an interesting one, but one I believe to be mistaken. While stained glass, sculptures and paintings were created by human hands, and therefore imperfect, Jesus was created by God and thus the only perfect human being to ever have existed. We believe quite literally the Jesus is God incarnate--in a human body, and that he became so in order to form a bridge between Himself and imperfect humanity....a covenant between Himself and a broken world, so that our brokenness can be forgiven and we can spend an eternity in his presence rather than be condemned to an eternity apart from him.
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robin
 
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Quote robin Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2008 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by thomasd

Christians do not worship icons or other man-made portrayals of God, saints, etc. Rather they are meant as a visual reminder of God's glory to focus our attention on him, in much the same way the Psalms or Proverbs do so through written word. Your connection between Jesus and icons is an interesting one, but one I believe to be mistaken. While stained glass, sculptures and paintings were created by human hands, and therefore imperfect, Jesus was created by God and thus the only perfect human being to ever have existed. We believe quite literally the Jesus is God incarnate--in a human body, and that he became so in order to form a bridge between Himself and imperfect humanity....a covenant between Himself and a broken world, so that our brokenness can be forgiven and we can spend an eternity in his presence rather than be condemned to an eternity apart from him.
 
That is not quite right as Cahtloics pray to mary and the saints, that is an act of worship!
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thomasd
 
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Quote thomasd Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2008 at 3:07pm
Originally posted by robin

That is not quite right as Cahtloics pray to mary and the saints, that is an act of worship!

any conversation with God (or other spiritual beings) is prayer, regardless of whether or not it is intended as worship, to express thanks, or to ask for something.

Catholics (if there are any of you out there and I'm slightly wrong in my explanation of this, correct me), believe that the saints have a sort of direct line to God (which we all do really...), and that they have been given power by God to do miracles, and so when they pray to saints they are asking them to relay a request to God, or to perform small miracles.

I personally don't hold that belief...God cares about all of us and is always listening to our requests, but I don't see anything idolatrous about it.
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seekshidayath
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Quote seekshidayath Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2008 at 7:29pm
Thomasd, my question to you differs the topic. You said that you believe 
 
"Jesus was created by God and thus the only perfect human being to ever have existed"
 
What do you say about Adam AS. He was also created by God. Likewise who is the creature of all the creations around us. These mountains, and rivers , birds and animals --- Allah swt is the only creator.Don't you agree to it ?
 
What do you say ? 
 


Edited by icforumadmin - 15 July 2008 at 9:00pm
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thomasd
 
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Quote thomasd Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2008 at 8:09pm
Originally posted by seekshidayath

<FONT face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif" size=1>Thomasd, my question to you differs the topic. You said that you believe 
<FONT face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif" size=1> 

<FONT face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif" size=1>"Jesus was created by God and thus the only perfect human being to ever have existed"

<FONT face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif" size=1> 

<FONT face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif" size=1>What do you say about Adam AS. He was also created by God. Likewise who is the creature of all the creations around us. These mountains, and rivers , birds and animals --- Allah swt is the only creator.Don't you agree to it ?

<FONT face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif" size=1> 

<FONT face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif" size=1>What do you say ? 

 


excellent question. Adam is actually an interesting parallel to Jesus. both were created to be perfect and yet have free will. Both were tempted (the tree, and Jesus's 40 days in the desert). The difference being that Adam gave in to temptation.

w.r.t. you question about creation. Allah is the original creator, yet the Bible says He crafted us in His own image. Obviously this doesn't mean physically, it means spiritually. And so Christians believe that part of that is that He gifted us with creativity...the ability to create new things. We don't always use that ability to His glory as was intended for us, but thats where free will and our fallen nature come out.
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Quote minuteman Replybullet Posted: 16 July 2008 at 10:37am
 
 Catholics (if there are any of you out there and I'm slightly wrong in my explanation of this, correct me), believe that the saints have a sort of direct line to God (which we all do really...), and that they have been given power by God to do miracles, and so when they pray to saints they are asking them to relay a request to God, or to perform small miracles.
 
Your post shown above ( and other points mentioned elsewhere) are very good and to the point except the one I mention below. Mind you it is not to downplay you but it is rather to confirm most of your good words that I have noted. I do not want to be a judge but i can give my opinion only.
 
 Please note where I disagree with you. I have colored it black above in your post. Thanks.
 
 Nobody can pray to any one but God. By the word pray, perhaps you mean calling them only in prayers. Even that is wrong if they are no more alive. We cannot call them and reqest them for anything at all if they are not alive.
 
 If any such person is living then it is alright to approach him for prayers so that he will pray to God for our purpose (our need to be granted).  I do not know if I have explained it well or not.


Edited by minuteman - 16 July 2008 at 10:38am
If any one is bad some one must suffer
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thomasd
 
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Quote thomasd Replybullet Posted: 16 July 2008 at 6:41pm
Originally posted by minuteman

   Nobody can pray to any one but God. By the word pray, perhaps you mean calling them only in prayers. Even that is wrong if they are no more alive. We cannot call them and reqest them for anything at all if they are not alive. If any such person is living then it is alright to approach him for prayers so that he will pray to God for our purpose (our need to be granted).  I do not know if I have explained it well or not.

yes, your meaning is clear, and I agree with you, that we should not call on the dead to intercede with God on our behalf. yet prayer is not limited to being an act of worship, and so I also do not believe that asking a request of a dead saint is idolatrous or blasphemous.
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