IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: THE BIBLE SAYS TO WORSHIP JESUS IS IDOLAT

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PattyaMainer
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Posted: 04 August 2008 at 12:13pm

Originally posted by Hayfa

Patty it is interesting what you wrote..

Is it not St. Anthony the patron saint of lost things? There is a Saint known for this.

Still why pray to a person to help you when you can pray to God?

Hello Hayfa,

I guess I could ask why ask others we know to be devout Muslims, Jews, or Christians to pray for us when we need help. We are not praying to the person, i.e., St. Anthony, we are ASKING him to help us.....or in other words to "intercede" for us to our Lord. We also of course pray most earnestly to God to help us, but asking our friends, relatives, saints, and the Blessed Mother to pray for us too certainly is not a wrong or bad thing to do, imo. I know I need all the help I can get!!

And when anyone asks me to pray for them, I am more than happy to do so. This is the same thing. I hope you understand what I am saying....I am not always good or clear at explaining what I mean.

Peace,

Patty

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robin

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Posted: 04 August 2008 at 12:55pm

Originally posted by PattyaMainer

No, you are wrong, Robin. With all due respect, you, like many other non-Catholics incorrectly believe we pray to saints and the Holy Mother of God. That is NOT SO. We ask their help for many problems/situations in life. It is the same as asking a dear friend or relative to "please pray for me." Nothing more, nothing less. Mary is in Heaven, very close to our Lord, as are the saints. We believe they are so close to God, and if we ask them to pray for us too, we are greatly increasing our hope of having our problems, whatever they may be, solved. You should read a good Catechism because you are woefully lacking in your knowledge of what true, devoted Catholics really believe. This is not uncommon, but it is very sad! I mean no disrespect or harshness toward you....but I must speak up when I see my religion being misrepresented. I trust you understand.

God's Peace,

Patty

As she is not the Mother of God, as Jesus is Not God!

Jesus also said:-

John 14:6

Jesus said to him: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Any other approch to God does not work, as Jesus himself said!

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robin

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Posted: 04 August 2008 at 1:02pm

Originally posted by PattyaMainer

I would humbly add this Scripture from Phillipians regarding our Lord, Jesus Christ:

Philippians 2 >>
King James Bible

1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, 2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. 4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth.

It does not say any other "name" that "EVERY KNEE SHOULD BOW" so to go through a saint or Mary (the name of) etc. is of no use, as the text you quoted says!

The Bible aslo says that ONLY God Himself hears prayers:-

Psalm 65:1-2

For you there is praise—silence—, O God, in Zion; And to you the vow will be paid. ² O Hearer of prayer, even to you people of all flesh will come.

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PattyaMainer
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Posted: 04 August 2008 at 6:08pm

Robin,

This topic is a mute point unless you are a Jehovah's Witness. I just realized that is your religion. I would like to say that God does hear prayers, as you just said yourself.....and that would include prayers from saints and the Holy Mother, and all human beings as well.

I wish you well. I have invited many Jehovah Witnesses into my home for discussions....but there is no way to communicate because your beliefs are so totally different from all Christian faiths and denominations.

I wish you well, my friend.

God's Peace Always,

Patty

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minuteman

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Posted: 05 August 2008 at 9:43am

Originally posted by PattyaMainer

Originally posted by Hayfa

Patty it is interesting what you wrote..

Is it not St. Anthony the patron saint of lost things? There is a Saint known for this.

Still why pray to a person to help you when you can pray to God?

Hello Hayfa,

And when anyone asks me to pray for them, I am more than happy to do so. This is the same thing. I hope you understand what I am saying....I am not always good or clear at explaining what I mean.

Peace,

Patty

In Islam, it is alright to ask some living person by phone or letter or message to pray to Allah for us. But it is never done for any man who has passed away because he is not living. His activity (account) is closed. We can pray for him. But he that has passed away cannot do anything.

About intersession also, it will be in the next life and will be with the permission of Allah. No one will incede on behalf of any one without the permission first being granted to him.

Conclusion: We can pray for the prophets and saints. We cannot ask them to help us or to do anything (pray) for us. Those who have passed away cannot pray and do not pray.

If any one is bad some one must suffer

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PattyaMainer
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Posted: 05 August 2008 at 12:24pm

Originally posted by minuteman

Originally posted by PattyaMainer

Originally posted by Hayfa

Patty it is interesting what you wrote..

Is it not St. Anthony the patron saint of lost things? There is a Saint known for this.

Still why pray to a person to help you when you can pray to God?

Hello Hayfa,

And when anyone asks me to pray for them, I am more than happy to do so. This is the same thing. I hope you understand what I am saying....I am not always good or clear at explaining what I mean.

Peace,

Patty

About intersession also, it will be in the next life and will be with the permission of Allah. No one will incede on behalf of any one without the permission first being granted to him.

Conclusion: We can pray for the prophets and saints. We cannot ask them to help us or to do anything (pray) for us. Those who have passed away cannot pray and do not pray.

Hello Minuteman,

This is where religious tolerance comes in, I suppose. This is why you are a good Muslim, and I am a good (I hope) Catholic. We disagree here, and that's okay. Catholics believe that those who are in Heaven can pray for us, just as those who are still here on earth may do so. This is a basic difference in beliefs. I am only stating what I believe, and why I believe it. But I certainly do not expect you to believe as I believe. I am not so naive'. It is good to explain what we believe and why we believe it. There are many references in the Holy Bible to enforce my beliefs....just as there are many in the Qur'an to enforce your comments and beliefs.

As adults I feel we know inside we are not going to change anyone's basic religious beliefs. It is useful and interesting to discuss and explain why we believe what we do. That is all I am trying to do here.

God's Blessings to you.

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robin

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Posted: 06 August 2008 at 1:13am

Originally posted by PattyaMainer

Robin,

but there is no way to communicate because your beliefs are so totally different from all Christian faiths and denominations.

But according to The Bible they should not be so:-

1 Corinthians 1:10

Now I exhort YOU, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that YOU should all speak in agreement, and that there should not be divisions among YOU, but that YOU may be fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.

1 Corinthians 12:25

so that there should be no division in the body, . . .

Therefore now divinsions should exist, true. this makes tow or more faith, and the Bible says there is only "one" faith:-

Ephesians 4:4-6

One body there is, and one spirit, even as YOU were called in the one hope to which YOU were called; ⁵ one Lord, one faith, one baptism; ⁶ one God and Father. . .

Thus only "one" truth!

Edited by robin - 06 August 2008 at 1:13am

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honeto

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Posted: 29 November 2008 at 6:56pm

Deuteronomy 32:16
They made him jealous with their foreign gods and angered him with their detestable idols.

Hasan

Edited by honeto - 29 November 2008 at 6:57pm

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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