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 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : General : Science & Technology
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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 26 May 2008 at 9:48pm
Truth_Light again, you have not proven anything. Also, please cite your work it helps when referencing your sources.
 
Of course God will reveal to the prophet his signs. Many pagan Arabs in his time were ignorant of God's influence over nature, but I'm still having trouble understanding what your main point is with science. You said "according to scientist today" but what does that mean? Are you talking about current scientist or are you talking about previous scientist? In this case please be specific.
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Truth_light24
 
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Quote Truth_light24 Replybullet Posted: 26 May 2008 at 10:08pm

It means that the Quran have said it long before the scientist have discovered it! Do I need to spell out the obvious?? Why in the world would I compare what the science says about the formation of cloud and that of what Allah said in the Quran??Disapprove



Edited by Truth_light24 - 26 May 2008 at 10:14pm
And those who annoy believing men and women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a glaring sin. Quran33:59
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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 26 May 2008 at 10:50pm

I'm speaking in the context you are using. Ok it is mentioned in the Quran long before scientist, and your point? Scientist have never said they discovered cloud formation today or has made some revelation about clouds.

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Ron Webb
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 27 May 2008 at 4:21pm

Originally posted by Truth_light24

Ronn, check this out...
According to the scientists today:

(It's "Ron", by the way)  I'd love to check it out, but you haven't provided your source.  Which scientist wrote that?  When, and where?

Theory of Aristotle (1600 AD) :

Aristotle was a philosopher, not a scientist, and he lived circa 350 BCE, not 1600 AD).  A thousand years before Muhammad.

STACKED UP means PILED UP or HEAPED UP

And the essential point about piles and heaps is that the upper parts are supported by the lower parts.  Not a good description of clouds, which can't support anything and don't need support themselves.  It doesn't make sense to talk about a pile or heap of clouds.

Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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Truth_light24
 
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Quote Truth_light24 Replybullet Posted: 28 May 2008 at 7:02am

Well, I am not astounded if you all act this way, no matter what the Quran says you wont believe in it and keep on disbelieving, rejecting and mocking it..it’s not news to me. Quran is the only authentic word of Allah whether you believe it or not and it does talk about everything, present and past  and it’s not surprising for He is the Creator of all that exists.

I will try to post here all the scientific miracles in the Quran I could find and if you believe it or not…that’s your choice…your challenges for me to “prove it” will just be ignored..the proof is there, what proof you want me to show?? Am not a scientist in the first place, I read the article, believe in it and share it the MUSLIMS..Smile About the description of clouds, its how your scientist explained it Ronn, they use it to prove their theory, but their theory on how the rain, hail, thunder and lightening were formed are RIGHT or TRUE- thats what Allah says in the Quran..Smile




And those who annoy believing men and women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a glaring sin. Quran33:59
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seekshidayath
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Quote seekshidayath Replybullet Posted: 28 May 2008 at 5:46pm
As'Salamu Alaikum,
 
 
Israfil check this link, and down you shall find references to it.
 
 
 
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 28 May 2008 at 6:27pm
Truth_Light here is the low down how I perceive your remarks. I think you are self-righteous, over asserting that you believe in the Qur'an and God when nobody here is challenging you on that notion. I also think you are unable to commence in  dialogue correctly because when I ask for your reference you lack it, and then challenge me on the basis that I'm disagreeing with the Qur'an.
 
Did you find anywhere in my posts where I outright rejected what the Qur'an is saying? Have I said I disbelieved in what Allah says in the Qur'an or what Muhammad says? I'd challenge you to find that here or anywhere in my posts. If you can't, then you need to read threads a lot better and carefully state your opinions that are accurate. As far as what you lay down I am merely challenging your statement that modern scientist have just discovered how clouds work. Cloud studies have long been studied way before the prophet Muhammad by the philosophers and those learned individuals of the sciences. I am not saying what god wrote is untrue in the Qur'an because that would be ridiculous, but your beginning statement which is presumably meant to reject the value of science by merely showing  in the Qur'an 'God said it first' type of thing.
 
Well, I am not astounded if you all act this way, no matter what the Quran says you wont believe in it and keep on disbelieving, rejecting and mocking\
 
 
But who is mocking it? I have not mocked anything, nor have I said I disbelieved what you said. I challenge one specific thing you stated in your opinion. Unless you are referring to Ron you should address those issues with him.
 
"your challenges for me to “prove it” will just be ignored"
 
Then stop making generalizations about scientist and about science if you cannot handle criticism. If you have any rational sense "Truth_Light" you would know that people who are skeptical of the Qur'an anyway will not review Quranic material and suddenly "believers" it doesn't work that way sometimes. My main issue with your brief statement was its overgeneralization. It is obvious you ar enot using your rational mechanism the one God gave you by reading what I wrote. If you said" you didn't know" I'd respect you more than simply discounting a small critique of what you said. The thing I found paramount to all this is:
 
 "Am not a scientist in the first place"
 
That is the most important thing here. You ar enot. You don't know squat about meterology. Although I commend you for your faith in the Creator and in God's word I do not like threads where your thesis is about discounting science and scientific methods because I am apart of that community just like I'm apart of the Muslim community. there is a reason why God gave human beings, the sciences.
 
Seekshidayath,
 
Thank you for your link. I am quite aware of the Qur'an on clouds and its formation. But the link you provided was a very good though. thank you.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Ron Webb
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 28 May 2008 at 7:30pm
Originally posted by seekshidayath

As'Salamu Alaikum,
 
 
Israfil check this link, and down you shall find references to it.
 
 
 
 
Thank you, seekshidayath.  Finally we have a (alleged) source for these statements.  Two, in fact: The Atmosphere, Anthes and others, pp. 268-269, and Elements of Meteorology, Miller and Thompson, p. 141.
 
To be blunt, I don't believe that these books are being accurately quoted.  The books are over twenty years old and it will be difficult to track down a print copy, but I will try.  Meanwhile, Google Books has snippets of the Miller and Thompson book, and you can search for words and phrases in it.
 
I searched for "small clouds" and came up empty.  The phrase does not appear in the book anywhere.  I searched for "joined together", and this is what I got on page 141:
It is not usual that isolated convective "cells" of this sort can be identified; normally, there is a tendency for adjacent cells to develop and join together.
 
Miller and Thompson were referring to convective cells joining together, not "small clouds".  As for whatever liberties the Islamic commentators took in quoting the book, we can only guess.
 
I am not mocking the Quran, Truth_light24.  I am mocking your attempt to interpret a very beautiful and poetic passage in the Quran as if it were a scientific text of some sort.


Edited by Ron Webb - 28 May 2008 at 7:31pm
Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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