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Message Icon Topic: From where did the trinity teaching come? Post Reply Post New Topic
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Nazarene
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Quote Nazarene Replybullet Posted: 07 September 2008 at 1:48am
the trinity explaind by jesus

Lection LXVI

             Iesus Again Teacheth His Disciples
             Concerning The Nature Of God
                      The Two In One

    1. AGAIN Jesus taught them saying, God hath raised up witnesses to the truth in every nation and every age, that all might know the will of the Eternal and do it, and after that, enter into the kingdom, to be rulers and workers with the Eternal,


    2. God is Power, Love and Wisdom, and these three are One. God is Truth, Goodness and Beauty, and these three are One.

    3. God is Justice, Knowledge and Purity, and these three are One. God is Splendour, Compassion and Holiness, and these three are One.

    4. And these four Trinities are One in the hidden Deity, the Perfect, the Infinite, the Onely.

    5. Likewise in every man who is perfected, there are three persons, that of the son, that of the spouse. and that of the father, and these three are one.

    6. So in every woman who is Perfected are there three persons, that of the daughter, that of the bride, and that of the mother and these three are one; and the man and the woman are one, even as God is One

    7. Thus it is with God the Father-Mother, in Whom is neither male nor female and in Whom is both, and each is threefold,  and all are One in the hidden Unity.

    8. Marvel not at this, for as it is above so it is below, and as it is below so it is above, and that which is on earth is so, because it is so in Heaven.

    9. Again I say unto you, I and My Bride are one, even as Maria Magdalena, whom I have chosen and sanctified unto Myself as a type, is one with Me; I and My Church are One. And the Church is the elect of humanity for the salvation of all.

    10. The Church of the first born is the Maria of God. Thus saith the Eternal, She is My Mother and she hath ever conceived Me, and brought Me forth as Her Son in every age and clime. She is My Bride, ever one in Holy Union with Me her Spouse. She is My Daughter, for she hath ever issued and proceeded from Me her Father, rejoicing in Me.

    11. And these two Trinities are One in the Eternal, and are strewn forth in each man and woman who are made perfect, ever being born of God, and rejoicing in light, ever being lifted up and made one with God, ever conceiving and bringing forth God for the salvation of the many.
 
    12. This is the Mystery of the Trinity in Humanity, and moreover in every individual child of man must be accomplished the mystery of God, ever witnessing to the light, suffering for the truth, ascending into Heaven, and sending forth the Spirit of Truth And this is the path of salvation, for the kingdom of God is within.

    13. And one said unto him, Master, when shall the kingdom come? And he answered and said, When that which is without shall be as that which is within, and that which is within shall be as that which is without, and, the male with the female, neither male nor female, but the two in One. They who have ears to hear let them hear
                         there's so much to tell,so much to talk about.
                         all my love ,leland


Edited by Nazarene - 11 September 2008 at 6:44pm
love for all conquers all
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PattyaMainer
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Quote PattyaMainer Replybullet Posted: 07 September 2008 at 3:23pm
Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by PattyaMainer

I John 5:7-8 states the following:
<FONT face="Trebuchet MS"> 

<FONT face="Trebuchet MS" size=3>For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

 

There are MANY other scriptures which also clearly state that Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit are one and the same.....this is the triune Godhead.  No mention of the word trinity is mentioned in the Bible, however, it is quite clear of the intention and assertion of one God comprise of three completely separate entities. 

 

Robin, you are trying to prove what Jehovah Witnesses believe...that Jesus is not God.  Even a good atheist knows you cannot prove a negative.  You should take a course in Quantam Physics. 

 

God is God; therefore, He can do anything.  Even create a Trinity, which He did choose to do and which does exist.    (Oh ye of little faith...where is your faith, Robin?)  Obviously it is not in the writings of the Holy Gospels.

 

God's Peace,

Patty

 

Hi Patty,

you are right God can do anything.

You said: "Even create a Trinity, which He did choose to do and which does exist. "

Let me say this, what God creates is created, but God is not created. Thus the created (as you agree in this case) the Trinity, is not equal to the Creator, God Almighty even if we assume there is one.

 

Regards,

Hasan


Yes, you are correct in stating that God can create anything...absolutely. That being said, He can also choose to make each separate entity of the Triune Godhead separate,yet still equal....that is exactly what He did. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three in one, and each is equal to the other.

God's Peace,
PattyaMainer
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Quote robin Replybullet Posted: 08 September 2008 at 12:22pm

What The Bible says as to God being ONE not three:-

 
Deuteronomy 6:4-5
"Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. 5 And you must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your vital force.
 
Mark 12:29
Jesus answered: "The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah,
 
1 Corinthians 8:6
there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.
 
 
Ephesians 4:4-6
One body there is, and one spirit, even as YOU were called in the one hope to which YOU were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father . . .
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Quote minuteman Replybullet Posted: 09 September 2008 at 6:40am
 
 robin, you are quoting complicated sentenses, verses. Why don't you tell us if Jesus is God or not? Be short and smart, in plain words please.
 
 If you do not support Trinity (as I think you do not) then Jesus is not a God. Welcome now !
If any one is bad some one must suffer
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Quote robin Replybullet Posted: 10 September 2008 at 1:16pm
Originally posted by minuteman

 
 robin, you are quoting complicated sentenses, verses. Why don't you tell us if Jesus is God or not? Be short and smart, in plain words please.
 
 If you do not support Trinity (as I think you do not) then Jesus is not a God. Welcome now !
 
 
It matters not what I say, but what the Bible says!!
 
The above say God is "one" not two or three!
 

“My God” said Jesus.

 

To whom was Jesus calling to at:-

Matthew 27:46

“About the ninth hour Jesus called out with a loud voice, saying: "E´li, E´li, la´ma sa·bach·tha´ni?" that is, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"”

Which is literally rendered "this is the God of me, God of me."-'The NASB-NIV parallel N.T. in Gk. & Eng.' with Interlinear Translated by Alfred Marshall*

 

Who is Jesus referring to at:-

 

John 20:17

“Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father. But be on your way to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father (Literal Gk. “Father of me”^) and YOUR Father and to my God (Literal Gk. “God of me”^) and YOUR God.’”

^'The NASB-NIV parallel N.T. in Gk. & Eng.' with Interlinear Translated by Alfred Marshall

 

my  poss[essive]. pron[oun]. (attrib.) 1 of or belonging to me. 2 affectionate, patronizing, etc. form of address (my dear boy). 3 in expressions of surprise (my God!; oh my!). 4 colloq. indicating a close relative etc. of the speaker (my Johnny's ill again).  my Lady (or Lord) form of address to certain titled persons. [from *mine1] .”-Oxford Dictionary

 

god  n[oun]. 1 a (in many religions) superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature, human fortunes, etc. b image, idol, etc., symbolizing a god. 2 (God) (in Christian and other monotheistic religions) creator and ruler of the universe. 3 adored or greatly admired person. … .”-Oxford Dictionary

 
Jesus must have been calling to the Almighty (the Father, his God, see John 20:17, “my God”, (Lit. Gk. "God of me" 'The NASB-NIV parallel N.T. in Gk. & Eng.' with Interliner Translated by Alfred Marshall) quoting from Ps 22:1 where King David was, showing that God is somone other than himself. No, Jesus cannot be Almighty God if he plainly says in the above texts that he himself has a God!
 
 
We can also add to the above, the following words, where Jesus is speaking from an exulted heavenly postion:-

Revelation 3:12-13

"‘The one that conquers—I* will make him a pillar in the temple of my God**, and he will by no means go out [from it] anymore, and I* will write upon him the name*** of my God** and the name of the city of my God**, the new Jerusalem which descends out of heaven from my God**, and that new name of mine.  Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the congregations.’”

*Jesus Christ

**Which in litrealy rendered "the God of me."-'The NASB-NIV parallel N.T. in Gk. & Eng.' With Interliner Translated by Alfred Marshall
***Jehovah

 

So we can ask again, who is Jesus talking about, as it cannot be himself"  He is talking about Almighty God, thus Jesus cannot be Almighty God!



Edited by robin - 10 September 2008 at 1:19pm
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PattyaMainer
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Quote PattyaMainer Replybullet Posted: 10 September 2008 at 4:46pm
As it has been stated repeatedly here, Robin, the Trinity is the "Triune Godhead", which means three separate entities but all are one which form the trinity.  You choose NOT to believe this.  It takes faith, which you do not seem to possess.
 
However, I would like to hear your response as to how Jehovah Witnesses feel about Black people.  How your "chuch" teaches the Black race will become white, how being black is their punishment for the sins of Ham, how your "church" does not have high ranking Blacks within your religion partly because they do not believe Blacks are intelligent enough, etc. 
 
Please.....now is your chance to explain this prejudice within the Jehovah Witness cult.  (I won't even begin to go into the hate mongering you have for the likes of me, a devout Roman Catholic...let's just get your response on your "church's" feelings and beliefs about the good Black folks for now). 
 
Thanks for your response.
Patty


Edited by PattyaMainer - 10 September 2008 at 4:48pm
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 10 September 2008 at 5:54pm
Originally posted by PattyaMainer

Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by PattyaMainer

I John 5:7-8 states the following:
<FONT face="Trebuchet MS"> 

<FONT face="Trebuchet MS" size=3>For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

 

There are MANY other scriptures which also clearly state that Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit are one and the same.....this is the triune Godhead.  No mention of the word trinity is mentioned in the Bible, however, it is quite clear of the intention and assertion of one God comprise of three completely separate entities. 

 

Robin, you are trying to prove what Jehovah Witnesses believe...that Jesus is not God.  Even a good atheist knows you cannot prove a negative.  You should take a course in Quantam Physics. 

 

God is God; therefore, He can do anything.  Even create a Trinity, which He did choose to do and which does exist.    (Oh ye of little faith...where is your faith, Robin?)  Obviously it is not in the writings of the Holy Gospels.

 

God's Peace,

Patty

 

Hi Patty,

you are right God can do anything.

You said: "Even create a Trinity, which He did choose to do and which does exist. "

Let me say this, what God creates is created, but God is not created. Thus the created (as you agree in this case) the Trinity, is not equal to the Creator, God Almighty even if we assume there is one.

 

Regards,

Hasan


Yes, you are correct in stating that God can create anything...absolutely. That being said, He can also choose to make each separate entity of the Triune Godhead separate,yet still equal....that is exactly what He did. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three in one, and each is equal to the other.

God's Peace,
PattyaMainer
 
 
Patty,
if we assume for a second that you are right about the three being equal, the following Bible quotes will prove us wrong, as Jesus, one of the three of the Triune Godhead according to your belief, is declaring otherwise:
John 14:28......for the Father is greater than I.

 

Hasan


39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote minuteman Replybullet Posted: 10 September 2008 at 8:14pm
 
 robin, you have again a long winding lecture about Jesus is God or not. In the end you have said:
 
 

So we can ask again, who is Jesus talking about, as it cannot be himself"  He is talking about Almighty God, thus Jesus cannot be Almighty God!

 Do we understand that Jesus is not God or Jesus is not Almighty God. What is the opinion (short reply) of the YW's (Ya Huwa's witnesses). As you know, there is only one God. We cannot have an Almighty God and a less mighty God.

 

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