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Larry
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Quote Larry Replybullet Posted: 13 November 2012 at 12:25pm
I'm sure you are. You seem to enjoy talking about yourself.
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 14 November 2012 at 1:29am
Originally posted by Larry

I'm sure you are. You seem to enjoy talking about yourself.
 
I will be hated because I speak the truth, man by his nature hates the TRUTH.
 
Where did I talk about myself?
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 14 November 2012 at 3:26pm
Larry,
you remind me of a circus monkey who plays tricks after tricks to entertain others and at the end sits in a corner sad realizing that that is your only purpose.
Indeed sad for the circus monkey, but as for you I see there is some excitement, short lived though.
You have been like a train who has been off its track for quite long now, it will take a crane to put you back on track.
There is hope, you know to read, the problem is attention deficit or intentional denial, looking the other way because of no other choice, right?
First, scroll to the top of the page, what do you see for topic? Right, you need to give your mind to process, what it reads and what it means.
Second, you need to understand that talking about this subject is because we want to know just that, what it says.
I know you drag people into other subjects in order to distract from the subject being discussed. You are also good at arousing other people into anger and I am sorry if in a result we insult you, it is not because we have intention of such, it is your behavior that leads many to inject words, we should refrain from using.
But anyway, as part of your distraction tactic I asked you a question, and your answered it, here is what you wrote in your last reply to me:

"I also wanted to address your question as to whether the Bible of a thousand years ago is word-for-word identical to the modern Bible? No, it isn't,"
Thank you that's all I was asking. And yes there are Quran copies that are a thousand years old that are identical word for word to the ones in use today.
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 14 November 2012 at 3:32pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Larry
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Quote Larry Replybullet Posted: 15 November 2012 at 7:27pm
Hasan,

   I will answer your question about the "thousand year old Bible" as soon as you answer my previously unanswered question regarding the destruction of Hafsah's Codex after Uthman used it to make his "four perfect copies" and then returned the codex, unharmed and complete, back to Hafsah, as he had promised to do. So, my question is WHY, after Uthman used it as the model for his own mushaf, later Muslim authorities decided that this ORIGINAL Qur'an, kept by the Prophet's own wife, needed to be utterly destroyed?

   Also, you ask me to "scroll to the top of the page what do you see for topic?" You say that I need to understand "what it reads and what it means."

   I didn't realize that asking questions about a "thousand year old Bible" related to the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. As usual, your hypocrisy knows few bounds.

   When you start answering my questions I will start addressing yours.

Larry

Originally posted by honeto

Larry,
you remind me of a circus monkey who plays tricks after tricks to entertain others and at the end sits in a corner sad realizing that that is your only purpose.
Indeed sad for the circus monkey, but as for you I see there is some excitement, short lived though.
You have been like a train who has been off its track for quite long now, it will take a crane to put you back on track.
There is hope, you know to read, the problem is attention deficit or intentional denial, looking the other way because of no other choice, right?
First, scroll to the top of the page, what do you see for topic? Right, you need to give your mind to process, what it reads and what it means.
Second, you need to understand that talking about this subject is because we want to know just that, what it says.
I know you drag people into other subjects in order to distract from the subject being discussed. You are also good at arousing other people into anger and I am sorry if in a result we insult you, it is not because we have intention of such, it is your behavior that leads many to inject words, we should refrain from using.
But anyway, as part of your distraction tactic I asked you a question, and your answered it, here is what you wrote in your last reply to me:

"I also wanted to address your question as to whether the Bible of a thousand years ago is word-for-word identical to the modern Bible? No, it isn't,"
Thank you that's all I was asking. And yes there are Quran copies that are a thousand years old that are identical word for word to the ones in use today.
Hasan


Edited by Larry - 15 November 2012 at 7:33pm
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 16 November 2012 at 10:53pm
Going to the topic of this thread: 
some things recently introduced to me:

I heard something on the radio so I Googled;
the best attested document in [ancient history]
http://www.allaboutthejourney.org/bible-manuscripts.htm

Dramatically, when the Bible manuscripts are compared to other ancient writings, they stand alone as the best-preserved literary works of all antiquity. Remarkably, there are thousands of existing Old Testament manuscripts and fragments copied throughout the Middle East, Mediterranean and European regions that agree phenomenally with each other. 1 In addition, these texts substantially agree with the Septuagint version of the Old Testament, which was translated from Hebrew to Greek some time during the 3rd century BC. 2 The Dead Sea Scrolls, discovered in Israel in the 1940's and 50's, also provide astounding evidence for the reliability of the ancient transmission of the Jewish Scriptures (Old Testament) in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd centuries BC. 3

The manuscript evidence for the "New Testament" is also dramatic, with nearly 25,000 ancient manuscripts discovered and archived so far, at least 5,600 of which are copies and fragments in the original Greek. 4 Some manuscript texts date to the early second and third centuries, with the time between the original autographs and our earliest existing fragment being a remarkably short 40-60 years. 5

Interestingly, this manuscript evidence far surpasses the manuscript reliability of other ancient writings that we trust as authentic every day.
Read more at the above provided link.

Then I was watching a movie and I
Googled Simon Greenleaf for edification

Dr. Greenleaf, the Royal Professor of Law at Harvard University, was one of the greatest legal minds that ever lived. He wrote the famous legal volume entitled, A Treatise on the Law of Evidence, considered by many the greatest legal volume ever written. Dr. Simon Greenleaf believed the Resurrection of Jesus Christ was a hoax. And he determined, once and for all, to expose the "myth" of the Resurrection. After thoroughly examining the evidence for the resurrection Dr. Greenleaf came to the exact opposite conclusion.  He wrote a book entitled, An Examination of the Testimony of the Four Evangelists by the Rules of Evidence Administered in the Courts of Justice.
Greenleaf concluded that according to the jurisdiction of legal evidence the resurrection of Jesus Christ was the best supported event in all of history.

One theory suggests the apostles fabricated the resurrection. Two major problems: One, If the body of Jesus Christ was available, you'd better believe, the Roman authorities would have paraded His body for all to see. Christianity was spreading like a wild fire! And nothing could have quenched that flame quicker than the body of Jesus Christ!

- American lawyer and jurist
- one of the principle founders of the Harvard Law School, ... set out to disprove...
- an agnostic, some say atheist, who believed the resurrection of Jesus Christ was either a hoax or a myth.


Edited by Caringheart - 16 November 2012 at 11:01pm
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Larry
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Quote Larry Replybullet Posted: 17 November 2012 at 6:03pm
Originally posted by Caringheart



Going to the topic of this thread: some things recently introduced to me:I heard something on the radio so I Googled;the best attested document in [ancient history]http://www.allaboutthejourney.org/bible-manuscripts.htmDramatically, when the Bible
manuscripts are compared to other ancient writings, they stand alone as
the best-preserved literary works of all antiquity. Remarkably, there
are thousands of existing Old Testament manuscripts and fragments
copied throughout the Middle East, Mediterranean and European regions
that agree phenomenally with each other. 1 In addition,
these texts substantially agree with the Septuagint version of the Old
Testament, which was translated from Hebrew to Greek some time during
the 3rd century BC. 2 The Dead Sea Scrolls, discovered in
Israel in the 1940's and 50's, also provide astounding evidence for the
reliability of the ancient transmission of the Jewish Scriptures (Old
Testament) in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd centuries BC. 3

The manuscript evidence for the "New Testament"
is also dramatic, with nearly 25,000 ancient manuscripts discovered and
archived so far, at least 5,600 of which are copies and fragments in
the original Greek. 4 Some manuscript texts date to the
early second and third centuries, with the time between the original
autographs and our earliest existing fragment being a remarkably short
40-60 years. 5

Interestingly, this manuscript evidence far surpasses the manuscript
reliability of other ancient writings that we trust as authentic every
day. Read more at the above provided link.
Then I was watching a movie and IGoogled Simon Greenleaf for edificationDr. Greenleaf, the Royal Professor of Law at Harvard University, was one of the greatest legal minds that ever lived. He wrote the famous legal volume entitled, A Treatise on the Law of Evidence, considered by many the greatest legal volume ever written. Dr. Simon Greenleaf believed the Resurrection of Jesus Christ was a hoax. And he determined, once and for all, to expose the "myth" of the Resurrection. After thoroughly examining the evidence for the resurrection Dr. Greenleaf came to the exact opposite conclusion. He wrote a book entitled, An Examination of the Testimony of the Four Evangelists by the Rules of Evidence Administered in the Courts of Justice.Greenleaf concluded that according to the jurisdiction of legal evidence the resurrection of Jesus Christ was the best supported event in all of history.One theory suggests the apostles fabricated the resurrection. Two major problems: One, If the body of Jesus Christ was available, you'd better believe, the Roman authorities would have paraded His body for all to see. Christianity was spreading like a wild fire! And nothing could have quenched that flame quicker than the body of Jesus Christ! - American lawyer and jurist- one of the principle founders of the Harvard Law School, ... set out to disprove...- an agnostic, some say atheist, who believed the resurrection of Jesus Christ was either a hoax or a myth.


Caringheart,

   Even the Jewish priests in Jerusalem were aware of the prophecies concerning the Messiah and sought to prevent anyone from stealing the body and then telling everyone that Jesus has risen from the dead.

   Matthew 27:62-66

   62. "On the next day, which followed the Day of Preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees gathered together to Pilate.

   63. "saying, "Sir, we remember, while He was still alive, how that deceiver said, "After three days I will rise."

   64. "Therefore command that the tomb be made secure until the third day, lest His disciples come by night and steal Him away, and say to the people, "He has risen from the dead." So the last deception will be worst than the first."

   65. "Pilate said to them, "You have a guard; go your way, make it as secure as you know how."

   66. "So they went and made the tomb secure, sealing the stone and setting the guard."

   So, you see that the chief priests did everything in their power to prove that Jesus Christ was a "deceiver" and set their own guard to prevent anyone from opening the tomb and removing the body and then announcing that Jesus had risen from the dead.

   Matthew 28:1-6

   1. "Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb."

   2. "And behold, there was a great earthquake; for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat on it."

   3. "His countenance was like lightning, and his clothing as white as snow."

   4. "And the guards shook for fear of him, and became like dead men."

   5. "But the angel answered and said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified."

   6. "He is not here; for He is risen, as He said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay."

   It would be very unlikely that the temple priests would have withdrawn their own guards before the third day come and gone because that was their whole purpose for being there.

Larry
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Larry
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Quote Larry Replybullet Posted: 17 November 2012 at 6:34pm
Originally posted by Caringheart



Going to the topic of this thread: some things recently introduced to me:I heard something on the radio so I Googled;the best attested document in [ancient history]http://www.allaboutthejourney.org/bible-manuscripts.htmDramatically, when the Bible
manuscripts are compared to other ancient writings, they stand alone as
the best-preserved literary works of all antiquity. Remarkably, there
are thousands of existing Old Testament manuscripts and fragments
copied throughout the Middle East, Mediterranean and European regions
that agree phenomenally with each other. 1 In addition,
these texts substantially agree with the Septuagint version of the Old
Testament, which was translated from Hebrew to Greek some time during
the 3rd century BC. 2 The Dead Sea Scrolls, discovered in
Israel in the 1940's and 50's, also provide astounding evidence for the
reliability of the ancient transmission of the Jewish Scriptures (Old
Testament) in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd centuries BC. 3

The manuscript evidence for the "New Testament"
is also dramatic, with nearly 25,000 ancient manuscripts discovered and
archived so far, at least 5,600 of which are copies and fragments in
the original Greek. 4 Some manuscript texts date to the
early second and third centuries, with the time between the original
autographs and our earliest existing fragment being a remarkably short
40-60 years. 5

Interestingly, this manuscript evidence far surpasses the manuscript
reliability of other ancient writings that we trust as authentic every
day. Read more at the above provided link.
Then I was watching a movie and IGoogled Simon Greenleaf for edificationDr. Greenleaf, the Royal Professor of Law at Harvard University, was one of the greatest legal minds that ever lived. He wrote the famous legal volume entitled, A Treatise on the Law of Evidence, considered by many the greatest legal volume ever written. Dr. Simon Greenleaf believed the Resurrection of Jesus Christ was a hoax. And he determined, once and for all, to expose the "myth" of the Resurrection. After thoroughly examining the evidence for the resurrection Dr. Greenleaf came to the exact opposite conclusion. He wrote a book entitled, An Examination of the Testimony of the Four Evangelists by the Rules of Evidence Administered in the Courts of Justice.Greenleaf concluded that according to the jurisdiction of legal evidence the resurrection of Jesus Christ was the best supported event in all of history.One theory suggests the apostles fabricated the resurrection. Two major problems: One, If the body of Jesus Christ was available, you'd better believe, the Roman authorities would have paraded His body for all to see. Christianity was spreading like a wild fire! And nothing could have quenched that flame quicker than the body of Jesus Christ! - American lawyer and jurist- one of the principle founders of the Harvard Law School, ... set out to disprove...- an agnostic, some say atheist, who believed the resurrection of Jesus Christ was either a hoax or a myth.



Caringheart,

   And you are correct in stating that there are around 25,000 ancient manuscripts that are archived and at least 5,600 manuscripts that are copies and fragments in the original Greek. That some of the manuscripts date to the early second and third centuries (100's A.D. - 200's A.D.) and that the earliest existing fragment being written within 40-60 years following the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

   It is this documentation over a long period and involving many writers, at least 66 in the Old and New Testaments, from many sources and times, that show the incredible coherence of the texts to each other and in the linear flow of time, prophecies and events from Genesis to Revelation.

   This is true "documentation." Sources can be challenged and tested against prior writings, prophecies, histories, geneaologies, etc. that are found throughout the Bible. Is every word and letter LITERALLY the same among all the thousands of manuscripts? No, but that is what happens when something is translated into many other languages, as the Bible has been for over 3,000 years. Nothing is held back and scholars are free to research, read, comment and compare all these sources in their studies. And it is this remarkable cohesion of words and ideas that show why the Bible is the most read book on earth.

   The Quran, in contrast, had one single "version" authorized by the Caliph Uthman who then ordered the destruction by burning of ALL OTHER MANUSCRIPTS OF THE QUR'AN. Is it any wonder why Muslims claim that the "truth" and "holiness" of the Qur'an is proven by the fact that there is only one single version, compiled 1,400 years ago, with absolutely no other prior background documentation to prove their claims? I guess we are supposed to take their word for it because there is absolutely no way of proving it, any such evidence was deliberately destroyed.

   Because even the ORIGINAL Qur'an, written within two years of Muhammad's death and kept by his own wife, Hafsah, the "Hafsah Codex", used by Uthman to create the "standardized version" of the Qur'an, was destroyed decades later by Muslim "authorities" to ensure that the "purity" of Uthman's text could never be challenged.

   Sorry, I just don't buy it.

Larry

Edited by Larry - 17 November 2012 at 6:47pm
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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 18 November 2012 at 1:19am
Originally posted by Larry

 

   Sorry, I just don't buy it.

Larry
 
Who cares if you buy it or sell it? We don't. And you are not that important anyway, are you?
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