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Larry
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Quote Larry Replybullet Posted: 15 October 2012 at 12:47pm
Originally posted by honeto

Larry,
I agree we all have different understanding of things.
You can keep singing the doctrine of Trinity, but you cannot answer a simple question.
Did Moses knew/taught/believed in Trinity?
Can you answer that?
Hasan



Hasan,

   The reason that I keep "singing" the doctrine of the Trinity is that it exists. And I answered this question to you previously...Moses did not ever say anything about the Trinity because Jesus Christ was not born for over a thousand years after the time of Moses. You seem not to understand why Moses would not have known/taught, believed in the Trinity. God came to earth only one time, in the person of Jesus Christ, hence his name Emmanuel or "God With Us."
   Islam is confused about Jesus Christ's true nature, even after Christ makes clear many times in the New Testament exactly who He was and why He came among us. Muslims accept certain things about Jesus Christ while totally rejecting others. But the reality is that you cannot "pick and choose" which aspects of Jesus Christ's life and ministry you will "accept" and which you won't. This is why the Qur'an has to twist and turn in order to explain the nature of Jesus. The idea that the belief that Jesus was the Son of God needs to be "explained" away by Muslims because it does not fit into what the Qur'an "teaches." So Islam and the Qur'an insist that the parts of the New Testament that explain Jesus' nature are simply dismissed as "corrupt."
   The fact is that Islam accepts many things contained in the Old and New Testaments but rejects ANY of them that deviate from the "truth" of the Qur'an. The simple fact is that the Qur'an is unable to deal with facts that call it's "holiness" into question. But there are so many discrepancies between the Qur'an and the Old and New Testaments that it is ridiculous to imagine that the Qur'an is the work that tells the "real" truth. The Old and New Testaments fit together almost seamlessly, from prophecies in the Old Testament to their fulfillment in the New Testament. The ONLY "holy text" that has huge discrepancies with both the Old and New Testaments is the Qur'an. But the Qur'an has no answers for many of the things in the Bible, so in order not to be seen as hopelessly out of touch with reality, the Qur'an must insist that anything that disagrees with it have to be "corrupt."
   The plain truth is that the Qur'an itself is the work that is corrupt. The Qur'an also masks it's imperfections in Surah 2:106:

   "None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar; knowest thou not that Allah hath power over all things?"

   So, I guess that means that Allah doesn't really have the "power" to be consistently correct in His own Qur'an, and can "substitute something "better" or "similar" than His previously "divine revelations" to the "prophet Muhammad?" In Judaism and Christianity, God does not make mistakes that later need to be "amended" or "substituted" by later revelation. And these are certainly NO references in the Bible that show any deviation from previous pronouncements of God Himself. But, the "prophet Muhammad" DID need this caveat to explain the numerous inconsistencies and discrepancies that came up over the 23 year course of "revelations" from God to him personally.
   If you want to base your faith on fairy tales and such an obviously flawed "divine text" it is up to you. I wouldn't be comfortable believing in a "God" that makes mistakes in His own "revelations" to mankind.

Larry


Edited by Larry - 15 October 2012 at 12:53pm
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Quote Larry Replybullet Posted: 15 October 2012 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by Kish

Originally posted by kish

Why are Muslims like yourself afraid to answer the question if this is your belief?
Was it Jesus or Judas on the cross (stake) that said these words?


Of course you will not answer because you have no answer as I have been saying all along. All you have is allegations and here-say. You assume because of your misguidance and what you have been told to believe but I do not blame you unless you fail to take responsibility for not knowing.

Furthermore, the Gospel does not teach God is part of a trinity and never have, nor do we. What people choose to believe and teach like yourself is your business. But what the Holy Scriptures teach is another.

You probably should look up the word Trinity and find out what it means and when it actually started before you start assuming again.

But at least try to answer my questions because when you don't it shows how much you really don't know and you just believe and follow what people tell you without finding out yourself.

With that being said, prey for help yourself first and then maybe you can help others.

But in order for your prayers to be heard they must be in the name of Jesus.

(John 14:6) Jesus said to him: I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Regarding the message of Muhammad . . .

(Revelation 22:18) I am bearing witness to everyone that hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone (Like Muhammad)makes an addition (Quran) to these things (Holy Scriptures), God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll (Revelation)

Kish
   

Kish,
you got to be out of your mind with those assumptions of yours you call belief.
Jews tried to kill Jesus, they thought they have put him on the cross as they tried to challenge God that if he was the true Messiah, God will save him. In fact God did save him. God raised him up to Himself. What is so hard to understand about that?

****************************************

   And, Hasan, what I would like to "understand" is WHO is the person who Allah supposedly "substituted" for Jesus Christ when he "removed" Jesus Christ from the crucifixion "scene?" And, by the way, it was not the Jews who killed Christ, it was the Roman Governor of Judea, Pontius Pilate.

******************************************

Also, the Quran is the only book still in its original language the way it was revealed still with us today. In fourteen hundred years it has never been rewritten, changed or altered. Unfortunately, your book cannot claim, cannot even come 10% close to that. We don't have its original, you even don't know what was its original language or contents. It contradicts it's own contents. What could be more proof of it's alterations by man than that? unless you believe in fairy tales and fictions and you can keep dreaming, or keep telling yourself that if you have hope in deceiving yourself!

****************************************

   As usual, Hasan, you are a hypocrite of the highest order. Muslims DO NOT HAVE THE ORIGINAL QUR'AN EITHER. The "origin al" Qur'an, Hafsah's Codex, was deliberately destroyed by Muslim "authorities" DECADES after Uthman "standardized" the form of the Qur'an. Uthman used Hafsah's Codex in order to prepare "four perfect copies" and then returned the Codex to Hafsah unharmed and undamaged. Why would ANYONE decide to destroy their "origin al" holy text, compiled just two years after the death of Muhammad and kept in safety by HIS OWN WIFE?
   In Christianity and Judaism, we don't destroy ANY of our early texts or writings and we didn't have a "burning party" to accept one VERSION of our Old and New Testaments and destroy any other Biblical sources that would have discrepancies with the "Final Version" of our holy texts.
   If anyone believes in "faity tales and fictions" it is you, Hasan. In Judaism and Christianity God does NOT make "mistakes' EVER, becasuse He is God. But, the Qur'an has to have an "explanation" for it's many errors and discrepancies. This is shown in Qur'an 2:106;

   "None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We SUBSTITUTE something BETTER or SIMILAR; knowest thou not that Allah hath power over all things?" Something "better" than previous DIVINE REVELATION? It is kind of like when Muhammad changed the direction of the "Qibla" from Jerusalem to Mecca. He had an "explanation" for that change of "revelation" with another REVELATION, convenient, was it not? The Qur'an announces that this momentous change was simply a "test" for Muslims. Another discrepancy in the Qur'an, and there are even more. The vastly changing ideas and commands from "God" to the Muslims as to how to deal with and see the "Peoples of the Book." In some "revelations" they are the same as Muslims in the eyes of God. But in others, Muslims are commanded not to make friends of them, that "they" weill never achieve heaven like Muslims, etc., etc., etc.

   Fairy tales and fictions, indeed!!

Larry

*****************************************

Hasan


Edited by Larry - 15 October 2012 at 1:24pm
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 18 October 2012 at 2:54pm
Kish,
if you are asking who was killed instead of Jesus? I do not know because we only know that they did not kill Jesus. So I will leave it there and not speculate. But Jesus was raised by God Almighty to Himself. They did not kill him. It may be in their plans, but God's plan was to save him, and God is the best of planners and the one who never fails to execute a plan.
As far as Jew killing him or the Romans, well the Romans were the rulers but those who framed him were the Jews. Just like today as they control the "Empire" and end up getting what they want through manipulation, they did the same then.

No I am not a hypocrite because I fear God's judgment nad cannot intentionally say something that is not true.
You will come up with your objections, but let us say just to prove my point. Even after the final compilation of the Quran, it has been fourteen hundred years. And it has never went through any rewriting.
In Christianity and Judaism you even don't have that? let alone to have something in its original language,
simple as that!
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 18 October 2012 at 2:56pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Kish Replybullet Posted: 19 October 2012 at 8:10pm
Originally posted by kish

Why are Muslims like yourself afraid to answer the question if this is your belief? Was it Jesus or Judas on the cross (stake) that said these words?


Of course months later and still no answer because Muslims don't have one. I didn't ask you who killed Jesus. But it is only Muslims who say it was Jesus who said Allah on the cross and yet at the same time you say it was not Jesus on the cross, it cannot be both. You are as mixed up as your Quran.

What's even sadder is that whether the Quran is the original or not, NOT! all it's revelations are wrong!

The Gospel of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John said Jesus died on the stake (cross)

It is ONLY Muhammad who says otherwise, ONLY Muhammad. One person not four. No other witnesses to confirm his word like everything else he said in the Quran. 

I'll believe four righteous men who followed Jesus then one does not follow Jesus or his teachings.
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Quote Larry Replybullet Posted: 20 October 2012 at 3:29pm
Originally posted by honeto

Kish,
if you are asking who was killed instead of Jesus? I do not know because we only know that they did not kill Jesus. So I will leave it there and not speculate. But Jesus was raised by God Almighty to Himself. They did not kill him. It may be in their plans, but God's plan was to save him, and God is the best of planners and the one who never fails to execute a plan.

************************************************
   So, I guess some unsuspecting innocent man was substituted for Jesus Christ by Allah so that Christ could be "raised" by God and "saved" from death by crucifixion? There are a number of ancient sources that reported that Jesus was crucified during the reign of Emperor Tiberius by Pontius Pilate, the Roman Governor of Judea. But the Qur'an is the only "source" that claims that this crucifixion of Jesus Christ did not occur. Just another example of the Qur'an having major difficulties when it attempts to insert it's own views and beliefs into the historical narrative.
**************************************************

As far as Jew killing him or the Romans, well the Romans were the rulers but those who framed him were the Jews. Just like today as they control the "Empire" and end up getting what they want through manipulation, they did the same then.

**************************************************
   Oh yes, I see now, it was the "Jews" who "controlled" the Roman Empire just as they "control" the earth today and get what they want by "manipulating" everyone else in the world? Sorry, Hasan, but your antisemitism is showing (even though you are hardly the first Muslim to have antisemitic attitudes). So, in your belief, Jews "framed" Jesus to the Romans, who then "crucified" a "substitute" Jesus, so that everyone would THINK that it really WAS Jesus who was crucified? This shows exactly why the Qur'an has to bend and twist to "fit" itself into an ancient known event, and then deny that the "event" ever even happened!
****************************************************


No I am not a hypocrite because I fear God's judgment nad cannot intentionally say something that is not true.
You will come up with your objections, but let us say just to prove my point. Even after the final compilation of the Quran, it has been fourteen hundred years. And it has never went through any rewriting.

****************************************************
   Well, Hasan, that is rather a "slick" interpretation of the events, isn't it? You say that AFTER THE FINAL COMPILATION OF THE QUR'AN, there were never any "rewritings" of the Qur'an.
   But it is exactly the fact that there WAS A "FINAL COMPILATION" of the Qur'an, after which ALL variant texts of the Qur'an were DESTROYED BY BURNING, that resulted in today's "unchanging" Qur'an.
   There are 66 books in the Bible and never have the Old or New Testaments EVER been destroyed, after a "final" compilation, so that all copies of the Bible are exactly alike, and this would "prove" the Bible's authenticity?
   There are no "pre-burning party" copies of the Qur'an extant, making the job of "proving" that the FINAL COMPILATION "Qur'an" is IDENTICAL to those "other" Qur'ans, that were detroyed by Muslim authorities, actually impossible.
   And the fact that Muslim "authorities" destroyed the ORIGINAL Qur'anic text, compiled within two years of Muhammad's death, "Hafsah's Codex," DECADES after Uthman's "compilation" (a "compilation" in which Uthman used the VERY SAME HAFSAH'S CODEX as the model and then returned this original Qur'an to Hafsah unharmed and complete) shows that there was something indeed that needed to be concealed by later Muslim "authorities," who needed to wait until after the death of Hafsah to destroy her "Qur'an" that she guarded so well while she was alive. Utter and complete nonsense!
***********************************************

In Christianity and Judaism you even don't have that? let alone to have something in its original language,
simple as that!

*************************************************
   You're right, Hasan, "we" Christians and Jews do not have a single "official" Old and New Testaments based on preceding "versions" of the Bible which were then deliberately destroyed by Christian and Jewish authorities.
   And, there are more than one ancient languages that were used by the Biblical writers who used Aramaic and ancient Greek in their works.
   But, the idea that the Qur'an, is WRITTEN IN IT'S ORIGINAL "PURE" ARABIC is simply not supportable by the evidence. Even though the Qur'an is supposedly "preserved on tablets in heaven," that has existed since the beginning of the world, the Qur'an contains many foreign words in Hebrew, Babylonian, Assyrian, Aramaic, Greek, Ethiopic, etc. And these words are not merely "words that don't exist in Arabic", they are actual foreign words within the text that do have Arabic equivalents. For such a "perfect" work from God Himself, the Qur'an, strangely, has many structural and linguistic errors within it's text.
************************************************

Fictions and fairy tales ad nauseum!

Larry

Hasan


Edited by Larry - 20 October 2012 at 3:48pm
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 22 October 2012 at 1:07pm
Originally posted by Larry

Originally posted by honeto

Kish,
if you are asking who was killed instead of Jesus? I do not know because we only know that they did not kill Jesus. So I will leave it there and not speculate. But Jesus was raised by God Almighty to Himself. They did not kill him. It may be in their plans, but God's plan was to save him, and God is the best of planners and the one who never fails to execute a plan.

************************************************
   So, I guess some unsuspecting innocent man was substituted for Jesus Christ by Allah so that Christ could be "raised" by God and "saved" from death by crucifixion? There are a number of ancient sources that reported that Jesus was crucified during the reign of Emperor Tiberius by Pontius Pilate, the Roman Governor of Judea. But the Qur'an is the only "source" that claims that this crucifixion of Jesus Christ did not occur. Just another example of the Qur'an having major difficulties when it attempts to insert it's own views and beliefs into the historical narrative.
**************************************************

As far as Jew killing him or the Romans, well the Romans were the rulers but those who framed him were the Jews. Just like today as they control the "Empire" and end up getting what they want through manipulation, they did the same then.

**************************************************
   Oh yes, I see now, it was the "Jews" who "controlled" the Roman Empire just as they "control" the earth today and get what they want by "manipulating" everyone else in the world? Sorry, Hasan, but your antisemitism is showing (even though you are hardly the first Muslim to have antisemitic attitudes). So, in your belief, Jews "framed" Jesus to the Romans, who then "crucified" a "substitute" Jesus, so that everyone would THINK that it really WAS Jesus who was crucified? This shows exactly why the Qur'an has to bend and twist to "fit" itself into an ancient known event, and then deny that the "event" ever even happened!
****************************************************


No I am not a hypocrite because I fear God's judgment nad cannot intentionally say something that is not true.
You will come up with your objections, but let us say just to prove my point. Even after the final compilation of the Quran, it has been fourteen hundred years. And it has never went through any rewriting.

****************************************************
   Well, Hasan, that is rather a "slick" interpretation of the events, isn't it? You say that AFTER THE FINAL COMPILATION OF THE QUR'AN, there were never any "rewritings" of the Qur'an.
   But it is exactly the fact that there WAS A "FINAL COMPILATION" of the Qur'an, after which ALL variant texts of the Qur'an were DESTROYED BY BURNING, that resulted in today's "unchanging" Qur'an.
   There are 66 books in the Bible and never have the Old or New Testaments EVER been destroyed, after a "final" compilation, so that all copies of the Bible are exactly alike, and this would "prove" the Bible's authenticity?
   There are no "pre-burning party" copies of the Qur'an extant, making the job of "proving" that the FINAL COMPILATION "Qur'an" is IDENTICAL to those "other" Qur'ans, that were detroyed by Muslim authorities, actually impossible.
   And the fact that Muslim "authorities" destroyed the ORIGINAL Qur'anic text, compiled within two years of Muhammad's death, "Hafsah's Codex," DECADES after Uthman's "compilation" (a "compilation" in which Uthman used the VERY SAME HAFSAH'S CODEX as the model and then returned this original Qur'an to Hafsah unharmed and complete) shows that there was something indeed that needed to be concealed by later Muslim "authorities," who needed to wait until after the death of Hafsah to destroy her "Qur'an" that she guarded so well while she was alive. Utter and complete nonsense!
***********************************************

In Christianity and Judaism you even don't have that? let alone to have something in its original language,
simple as that!

*************************************************
   You're right, Hasan, "we" Christians and Jews do not have a single "official" Old and New Testaments based on preceding "versions" of the Bible which were then deliberately destroyed by Christian and Jewish authorities.
   And, there are more than one ancient languages that were used by the Biblical writers who used Aramaic and ancient Greek in their works.
   But, the idea that the Qur'an, is WRITTEN IN IT'S ORIGINAL "PURE" ARABIC is simply not supportable by the evidence. Even though the Qur'an is supposedly "preserved on tablets in heaven," that has existed since the beginning of the world, the Qur'an contains many foreign words in Hebrew, Babylonian, Assyrian, Aramaic, Greek, Ethiopic, etc. And these words are not merely "words that don't exist in Arabic", they are actual foreign words within the text that do have Arabic equivalents. For such a "perfect" work from God Himself, the Qur'an, strangely, has many structural and linguistic errors within it's text.
************************************************

Fictions and fairy tales ad nauseum!

Larry

Hasan


At this point you say you guess, well your guess is just that, a guess. And you are wrong again.
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 22 October 2012 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by Larry

Originally posted by honeto

Kish,
if you are asking who was killed instead of Jesus? I do not know because we only know that they did not kill Jesus. So I will leave it there and not speculate. But Jesus was raised by God Almighty to Himself. They did not kill him. It may be in their plans, but God's plan was to save him, and God is the best of planners and the one who never fails to execute a plan.

************************************************
   So, I guess some unsuspecting innocent man was substituted for Jesus Christ by Allah so that Christ could be "raised" by God and "saved" from death by crucifixion? There are a number of ancient sources that reported that Jesus was crucified during the reign of Emperor Tiberius by Pontius Pilate, the Roman Governor of Judea. But the Qur'an is the only "source" that claims that this crucifixion of Jesus Christ did not occur. Just another example of the Qur'an having major difficulties when it attempts to insert it's own views and beliefs into the historical narrative.
**************************************************

As far as Jew killing him or the Romans, well the Romans were the rulers but those who framed him were the Jews. Just like today as they control the "Empire" and end up getting what they want through manipulation, they did the same then.

**************************************************
   Oh yes, I see now, it was the "Jews" who "controlled" the Roman Empire just as they "control" the earth today and get what they want by "manipulating" everyone else in the world? Sorry, Hasan, but your antisemitism is showing (even though you are hardly the first Muslim to have antisemitic attitudes). So, in your belief, Jews "framed" Jesus to the Romans, who then "crucified" a "substitute" Jesus, so that everyone would THINK that it really WAS Jesus who was crucified? This shows exactly why the Qur'an has to bend and twist to "fit" itself into an ancient known event, and then deny that the "event" ever even happened!
****************************************************


No I am not a hypocrite because I fear God's judgment nad cannot intentionally say something that is not true.
You will come up with your objections, but let us say just to prove my point. Even after the final compilation of the Quran, it has been fourteen hundred years. And it has never went through any rewriting.

****************************************************
   Well, Hasan, that is rather a "slick" interpretation of the events, isn't it? You say that AFTER THE FINAL COMPILATION OF THE QUR'AN, there were never any "rewritings" of the Qur'an.
   But it is exactly the fact that there WAS A "FINAL COMPILATION" of the Qur'an, after which ALL variant texts of the Qur'an were DESTROYED BY BURNING, that resulted in today's "unchanging" Qur'an.
   There are 66 books in the Bible and never have the Old or New Testaments EVER been destroyed, after a "final" compilation, so that all copies of the Bible are exactly alike, and this would "prove" the Bible's authenticity?
   There are no "pre-burning party" copies of the Qur'an extant, making the job of "proving" that the FINAL COMPILATION "Qur'an" is IDENTICAL to those "other" Qur'ans, that were detroyed by Muslim authorities, actually impossible.
   And the fact that Muslim "authorities" destroyed the ORIGINAL Qur'anic text, compiled within two years of Muhammad's death, "Hafsah's Codex," DECADES after Uthman's "compilation" (a "compilation" in which Uthman used the VERY SAME HAFSAH'S CODEX as the model and then returned this original Qur'an to Hafsah unharmed and complete) shows that there was something indeed that needed to be concealed by later Muslim "authorities," who needed to wait until after the death of Hafsah to destroy her "Qur'an" that she guarded so well while she was alive. Utter and complete nonsense!
***********************************************

In Christianity and Judaism you even don't have that? let alone to have something in its original language,
simple as that!

*************************************************
   You're right, Hasan, "we" Christians and Jews do not have a single "official" Old and New Testaments based on preceding "versions" of the Bible which were then deliberately destroyed by Christian and Jewish authorities.
   And, there are more than one ancient languages that were used by the Biblical writers who used Aramaic and ancient Greek in their works.
   But, the idea that the Qur'an, is WRITTEN IN IT'S ORIGINAL "PURE" ARABIC is simply not supportable by the evidence. Even though the Qur'an is supposedly "preserved on tablets in heaven," that has existed since the beginning of the world, the Qur'an contains many foreign words in Hebrew, Babylonian, Assyrian, Aramaic, Greek, Ethiopic, etc. And these words are not merely "words that don't exist in Arabic", they are actual foreign words within the text that do have Arabic equivalents. For such a "perfect" work from God Himself, the Qur'an, strangely, has many structural and linguistic errors within it's text.
************************************************

Fictions and fairy tales ad nauseum!

Larry

Hasan


At this point you say you guess, well your guess is just that, a guess. And you are wrong again. Keep guessing, at least you will have hope with guessing.
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Larry Replybullet Posted: 22 October 2012 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by Larry

Originally posted by honeto

Kish,
if you are asking who was killed instead of Jesus? I do not know because we only know that they did not kill Jesus. So I will leave it there and not speculate. But Jesus was raised by God Almighty to Himself. They did not kill him. It may be in their plans, but God's plan was to save him, and God is the best of planners and the one who never fails to execute a plan.

************************************************
   So, I guess some unsuspecting innocent man was substituted for Jesus Christ by Allah so that Christ could be "raised" by God and "saved" from death by crucifixion? There are a number of ancient sources that reported that Jesus was crucified during the reign of Emperor Tiberius by Pontius Pilate, the Roman Governor of Judea. But the Qur'an is the only "source" that claims that this crucifixion of Jesus Christ did not occur. Just another example of the Qur'an having major difficulties when it attempts to insert it's own views and beliefs into the historical narrative.
**************************************************

As far as Jew killing him or the Romans, well the Romans were the rulers but those who framed him were the Jews. Just like today as they control the "Empire" and end up getting what they want through manipulation, they did the same then.

**************************************************
   Oh yes, I see now, it was the "Jews" who "controlled" the Roman Empire just as they "control" the earth today and get what they want by "manipulating" everyone else in the world? Sorry, Hasan, but your antisemitism is showing (even though you are hardly the first Muslim to have antisemitic attitudes). So, in your belief, Jews "framed" Jesus to the Romans, who then "crucified" a "substitute" Jesus, so that everyone would THINK that it really WAS Jesus who was crucified? This shows exactly why the Qur'an has to bend and twist to "fit" itself into an ancient known event, and then deny that the "event" ever even happened!
****************************************************


No I am not a hypocrite because I fear God's judgment nad cannot intentionally say something that is not true.
You will come up with your objections, but let us say just to prove my point. Even after the final compilation of the Quran, it has been fourteen hundred years. And it has never went through any rewriting.

****************************************************
   Well, Hasan, that is rather a "slick" interpretation of the events, isn't it? You say that AFTER THE FINAL COMPILATION OF THE QUR'AN, there were never any "rewritings" of the Qur'an.
   But it is exactly the fact that there WAS A "FINAL COMPILATION" of the Qur'an, after which ALL variant texts of the Qur'an were DESTROYED BY BURNING, that resulted in today's "unchanging" Qur'an.
   There are 66 books in the Bible and never have the Old or New Testaments EVER been destroyed, after a "final" compilation, so that all copies of the Bible are exactly alike, and this would "prove" the Bible's authenticity?
   There are no "pre-burning party" copies of the Qur'an extant, making the job of "proving" that the FINAL COMPILATION "Qur'an" is IDENTICAL to those "other" Qur'ans, that were detroyed by Muslim authorities, actually impossible.
   And the fact that Muslim "authorities" destroyed the ORIGINAL Qur'anic text, compiled within two years of Muhammad's death, "Hafsah's Codex," DECADES after Uthman's "compilation" (a "compilation" in which Uthman used the VERY SAME HAFSAH'S CODEX as the model and then returned this original Qur'an to Hafsah unharmed and complete) shows that there was something indeed that needed to be concealed by later Muslim "authorities," who needed to wait until after the death of Hafsah to destroy her "Qur'an" that she guarded so well while she was alive. Utter and complete nonsense!
***********************************************

In Christianity and Judaism you even don't have that? let alone to have something in its original language,
simple as that!

*************************************************
   You're right, Hasan, "we" Christians and Jews do not have a single "official" Old and New Testaments based on preceding "versions" of the Bible which were then deliberately destroyed by Christian and Jewish authorities.
   And, there are more than one ancient languages that were used by the Biblical writers who used Aramaic and ancient Greek in their works.
   But, the idea that the Qur'an, is WRITTEN IN IT'S ORIGINAL "PURE" ARABIC is simply not supportable by the evidence. Even though the Qur'an is supposedly "preserved on tablets in heaven," that has existed since the beginning of the world, the Qur'an contains many foreign words in Hebrew, Babylonian, Assyrian, Aramaic, Greek, Ethiopic, etc. And these words are not merely "words that don't exist in Arabic", they are actual foreign words within the text that do have Arabic equivalents. For such a "perfect" work from God Himself, the Qur'an, strangely, has many structural and linguistic errors within it's text.
************************************************

Fictions and fairy tales ad nauseum!

Larry

Hasan


At this point you say you guess, well your guess is just that, a guess. And you are wrong again. Keep guessing, at least you will have hope with guessing.

************************************************
Hasan,

   If you understood English better, you would know that the use of the phrase, "I guess," is as a satirical response to your ridiculous statements and non-answers. When confronted with uncomfortable facts, you simply make a "statement", just like the one above, and refuse to answer. That is just another example of your endless evasions from having to explain the many "irregularities" in the Qur'an, especially when it is contrasted with the Old and New Testaments. But, as I have said before, you have every right to believe whatever you want, but just because you "believe" that the Qur'an is actually the "Third Testament" does not make it true. Between the Old and New Testaments and the Qur'an, the Qur'an is the only "book" that differs sharply and has manifold problems and discrepancies with both the Old and New Testaments. If you want to pretend that this "situation" occurs because the Old and New Testaments are "corrupted," then that is your problem, not mine. And, by the way, you accuse the Jews and Christians of "corrupting" their own holy texts. But, "corruption" is the only "excuse" that can be used by Muslims to "explain" the many problems and discrepancies of the Qur'an versus the Bible.
   As I have said before, Judaism and Christianity were existing hundreds, in some cases thousands, of years before Muhammad had his "revelations" that now deny the very same "sources" that he used from the Old and New Testaments.

Larry

Hasan


Edited by Larry - 22 October 2012 at 5:34pm
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