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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 24 October 2012 at 11:26am
Larry,
stop playing du--,
Facts are facts, for fourteen hundred years the Quran has not been rewritten, altered, any part removed or added nor changed. That is a fact.
You cannot match that with any of your books you follow. That is a fact.
You say, that the Prophet (pbuh) has copied from your NT and OT books to make the Quran. If that was the case, it will show that in it, it does not. The Quran teaches us that Jesus was the Messiah, Jews do not believe that they called him names I do not want to repeat as they are disrespectful to him, while I respect and love Jesus (pbuh). NT according to you teaches Trinity. The Prophet (pbuh) taught that it is not true. There is not such thing as Trinity, it is an invention and offense to God, who is One, and Jesus and the Spirit are under His command and they serve Him, His creations.

So, in plain English you have no face with that truth in front of you to deny it.

On top, we have many many verses we have gone over thousands of times to show you that within your book there is a ton of inconsistencies. And that is a fact.
you have no place to hide with those facts shining in front of you, choice is yours!
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Larry Replybullet Posted: 25 October 2012 at 3:07am
Originally posted by honeto

Larry,
stop playing du--,
Facts are facts, for fourteen hundred years the Quran has not been rewritten, altered, any part removed or added nor changed. That is a fact.
You cannot match that with any of your books you follow. That is a fact.
You say, that the Prophet (pbuh) has copied from your NT and OT books to make the Quran. If that was the case, it will show that in it, it does not. The Quran teaches us that Jesus was the Messiah, Jews do not believe that they called him names I do not want to repeat as they are disrespectful to him, while I respect and love Jesus (pbuh). NT according to you teaches Trinity. The Prophet (pbuh) taught that it is not true. There is not such thing as Trinity, it is an invention and offense to God, who is One, and Jesus and the Spirit are under His command and they serve Him, His creations.

So, in plain English you have no face with that truth in front of you to deny it.

On top, we have many many verses we have gone over thousands of times to show you that within your book there is a ton of inconsistencies. And that is a fact.
you have no place to hide with those facts shining in front of you, choice is yours!
Hasan


Hasan,

   If I had to base my faith on a book that was "standardized" by Uthman, using "Hafsah's
Codex" as his model, then returning the codex to Hafsah as he promised, intact and undamaged, and then Muslim "authorities" DELIBERATELY DESTROY this ORIGINAL Qur'an DECADES later, I would not feel very comfortable in my faith.
   I am still waiting to hear your "explanation" of WHY Hafsah's Codex, the ORIGINAL Qur'an, was deliberately destroyed by later Muslim "authorities after Uthman used it as his guide and returned it UNHARMED to Hafsah. After all, Hafsah was one of the "prophet's" many wives and guarded the codex jealously until her death.
   You can talk about what the "prophet" (an odd designation for someone who made absolutely NO actual "prophecies" at all, which by Biblical standards would be condemned as a "false prophet"), did or said all you want, it means nothing to me. You can quote the Qur'an a million times and it will still mean nothing to me.
   You have disrespect for my religion and I have even more disrespect for yours. So I guess that makes us even.
   I am tired of listening to the same nonsense from you about the "fact" that the Qur'an hasn't been altered in ANY way, which is absurd, since Uthman, But strangely enough, Ibn Masud and Ubayy B. Ka'ab's "Quran's" are not identical to Uthman's "mushaf." Ibn Masud's mushaf, the "Kufan Codex" still exists as does Ubayy B. Ka'ab's Qur'an that has two complete surahs, Surah Al-Khal and Surah Al-Afd, not found in the "official" version of the Qur'an.
   The words Islam, Muslim, Muhammad, Qur'an, etc. have no historical record or evidence that predates Muhammad's supposed "revelations" in the seventh century A.D. And that is a fact.
   Of the three "holy" books, the Old Testament, the New Testament and the Qur'an, it is only the Qur'an that has deep, repetitive and serious discrepancies and errors with both the Old and New Testaments. And all Muslims can say is that any part of the Old and New Testaments that they feel "support" the views of the Qur'an, is the "proof" of the truth of the Qur'an, and anything that disagrees with the Qur'an, which the Old and New Testaments do MANY times, is somehow "corrupted" by the very people who had those faiths long before Muhammad and his "revelations" came along. What a ridiculous argument that is, a rather "convenient" excuse for the discrepancies and errors of the Qur'an, wouldn't you say?
   I would simply compare and contrast the lives, teachings and actions of Jesus Christ and Muhammad to see who represents truth and holiness. Jesus Christ didn't rob peaceful Meccan caravans, Jesus Christ didn't acquiesce to the murders of 800 Quraysa Jews of Medina, Jesus Christ did not charge "protection money" from conquered nations, simply for them to continue in their own faiths, even though, supposedly, "There is no compulsion in religion, truth stands out clear from error." Jesus Christ didn't have multiple wives and concubines, specifically allowed to him by one of his "revelations," or marry a six year old Aisha, daughter of one of his "companions" and then consummate the marriage when she was nine years old, Jesus Christ did not have "revelations" from God Himself that dictated the amount of war booty and protection money that was to be paid to the "messenger" and his immediate family (the actual amount was 20%). Jesus Christ didn't refer to a blind man (Umayr Ibn Adi), who murdered a woman suckling her baby (Asma Bint Marwan) because she made fun of the "messenger" in poems, Umayr "basir" "the seeing" The "messenger" derisively said that "No two goats will butt together about her." Etc., etc., etc.
   If THIS is your idea of the perfect and "ideal" man, then you have much lower standards for that designation than Christians and Jews have.
   So, you can denigrate my faith all you want and insult me with snide remarks, go for it. I could really care less. I have read the entire Qur'an here on this site and I found it repetitive, verbose, incoherent at times, repeating the same message thousands of times (believe in Allah and the "messenger" and do whatever they "messenger" tells you to do or you will burn in hell forever). The Qur'an makes mistakes about people named in the Bible, confuses one person for another, events in the Bible are altered, locations are changed from Israel to Mecca (such as "Ibrahim and Ishmael" building the original Kaaba, even though Abraham never set foot in Arabia (when he would have been over 100 years old, no less), etc.
   I prefer the grandeur of the Bible, the historical accuracy of the Bible, the seamless way that the Old and New Testaments fit together, the truth of REAL Prophets and the fulfillment of their prophecies, The beauty of the Psalms, the beauty of the Song of Solomon, the EXTENSIVE and COMPLETE geneaologies (that never mention "Muhammad" at all), of the early Patriarchs, the histories in I-II Samuel, I-II Kings, Chronicles, etc., and the message and narrative that flows seamlessly through both the Old and New Testaments. The prophecy of the Messiah and it's fulfillment in Jesus Christ, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, in ONE, The "Holy Trinity." And, Jesus Christ makes it CRYSTAL CLEAR that He and God are ONE with the Holy Spirit.
   So, unless you have something NEW to say, I would suggest you keep it to yourself, because it has bored me to tears.

Larry


Edited by Larry - 25 October 2012 at 5:07am
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 29 October 2012 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by Larry

Originally posted by honeto

Larry,
stop playing du--,
Facts are facts, for fourteen hundred years the Quran has not been rewritten, altered, any part removed or added nor changed. That is a fact.
You cannot match that with any of your books you follow. That is a fact.
You say, that the Prophet (pbuh) has copied from your NT and OT books to make the Quran. If that was the case, it will show that in it, it does not. The Quran teaches us that Jesus was the Messiah, Jews do not believe that they called him names I do not want to repeat as they are disrespectful to him, while I respect and love Jesus (pbuh). NT according to you teaches Trinity. The Prophet (pbuh) taught that it is not true. There is not such thing as Trinity, it is an invention and offense to God, who is One, and Jesus and the Spirit are under His command and they serve Him, His creations.

So, in plain English you have no face with that truth in front of you to deny it.

On top, we have many many verses we have gone over thousands of times to show you that within your book there is a ton of inconsistencies. And that is a fact.
you have no place to hide with those facts shining in front of you, choice is yours!
Hasan


Hasan,

   If I had to base my faith on a book that was "standardized" by Uthman, using "Hafsah's
Codex" as his model, then returning the codex to Hafsah as he promised, intact and undamaged, and then Muslim "authorities" DELIBERATELY DESTROY this ORIGINAL Qur'an DECADES later, I would not feel very comfortable in my faith.
   I am still waiting to hear your "explanation" of WHY Hafsah's Codex, the ORIGINAL Qur'an, was deliberately destroyed by later Muslim "authorities after Uthman used it as his guide and returned it UNHARMED to Hafsah. After all, Hafsah was one of the "prophet's" many wives and guarded the codex jealously until her death.
   You can talk about what the "prophet" (an odd designation for someone who made absolutely NO actual "prophecies" at all, which by Biblical standards would be condemned as a "false prophet"), did or said all you want, it means nothing to me. You can quote the Qur'an a million times and it will still mean nothing to me.
   You have disrespect for my religion and I have even more disrespect for yours. So I guess that makes us even.
   I am tired of listening to the same nonsense from you about the "fact" that the Qur'an hasn't been altered in ANY way, which is absurd, since Uthman, But strangely enough, Ibn Masud and Ubayy B. Ka'ab's "Quran's" are not identical to Uthman's "mushaf." Ibn Masud's mushaf, the "Kufan Codex" still exists as does Ubayy B. Ka'ab's Qur'an that has two complete surahs, Surah Al-Khal and Surah Al-Afd, not found in the "official" version of the Qur'an.
   The words Islam, Muslim, Muhammad, Qur'an, etc. have no historical record or evidence that predates Muhammad's supposed "revelations" in the seventh century A.D. And that is a fact.
   Of the three "holy" books, the Old Testament, the New Testament and the Qur'an, it is only the Qur'an that has deep, repetitive and serious discrepancies and errors with both the Old and New Testaments. And all Muslims can say is that any part of the Old and New Testaments that they feel "support" the views of the Qur'an, is the "proof" of the truth of the Qur'an, and anything that disagrees with the Qur'an, which the Old and New Testaments do MANY times, is somehow "corrupted" by the very people who had those faiths long before Muhammad and his "revelations" came along. What a ridiculous argument that is, a rather "convenient" excuse for the discrepancies and errors of the Qur'an, wouldn't you say?
   I would simply compare and contrast the lives, teachings and actions of Jesus Christ and Muhammad to see who represents truth and holiness. Jesus Christ didn't rob peaceful Meccan caravans, Jesus Christ didn't acquiesce to the murders of 800 Quraysa Jews of Medina, Jesus Christ did not charge "protection money" from conquered nations, simply for them to continue in their own faiths, even though, supposedly, "There is no compulsion in religion, truth stands out clear from error." Jesus Christ didn't have multiple wives and concubines, specifically allowed to him by one of his "revelations," or marry a six year old Aisha, daughter of one of his "companions" and then consummate the marriage when she was nine years old, Jesus Christ did not have "revelations" from God Himself that dictated the amount of war booty and protection money that was to be paid to the "messenger" and his immediate family (the actual amount was 20%). Jesus Christ didn't refer to a blind man (Umayr Ibn Adi), who murdered a woman suckling her baby (Asma Bint Marwan) because she made fun of the "messenger" in poems, Umayr "basir" "the seeing" The "messenger" derisively said that "No two goats will butt together about her." Etc., etc., etc.
   If THIS is your idea of the perfect and "ideal" man, then you have much lower standards for that designation than Christians and Jews have.
   So, you can denigrate my faith all you want and insult me with snide remarks, go for it. I could really care less. I have read the entire Qur'an here on this site and I found it repetitive, verbose, incoherent at times, repeating the same message thousands of times (believe in Allah and the "messenger" and do whatever they "messenger" tells you to do or you will burn in hell forever). The Qur'an makes mistakes about people named in the Bible, confuses one person for another, events in the Bible are altered, locations are changed from Israel to Mecca (such as "Ibrahim and Ishmael" building the original Kaaba, even though Abraham never set foot in Arabia (when he would have been over 100 years old, no less), etc.
   I prefer the grandeur of the Bible, the historical accuracy of the Bible, the seamless way that the Old and New Testaments fit together, the truth of REAL Prophets and the fulfillment of their prophecies, The beauty of the Psalms, the beauty of the Song of Solomon, the EXTENSIVE and COMPLETE geneaologies (that never mention "Muhammad" at all), of the early Patriarchs, the histories in I-II Samuel, I-II Kings, Chronicles, etc., and the message and narrative that flows seamlessly through both the Old and New Testaments. The prophecy of the Messiah and it's fulfillment in Jesus Christ, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, in ONE, The "Holy Trinity." And, Jesus Christ makes it CRYSTAL CLEAR that He and God are ONE with the Holy Spirit.
   So, unless you have something NEW to say, I would suggest you keep it to yourself, because it has bored me to tears.

Larry


Larry,
so you admit your defeat as you fail to address my challenge to you rather you take the easy way by writing a story.
Let me repeat:
We have a Quran that is fourteen hundred years old copy, it is same in contents to those in circulation around the globe.
What I asked you and challenged you with was, can you make a similar claim for Bible. Do you have a copy of the Bible that is fourteen hundred years old and be same in contents to those in circulation around the world?
Where?
How it is that you claim so much, but cannot come up with such a simple answer to a simple question, even a fourth grader would even understand it after repeating this many times , can you?
I do not mean to offend you but let us see I will hold off my judgement about that till I see your answer, if you can do such a simple thing. Remember the answer is simple: "yes", there is and it is in such and such place, or "no" there is not a fourteen hundered year old Bible that is exactly like the one we have today!
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Larry
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Quote Larry Replybullet Posted: 29 October 2012 at 10:47pm
Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by Larry

Originally posted by honeto

Larry,
stop playing du--,
Facts are facts, for fourteen hundred years the Quran has not been rewritten, altered, any part removed or added nor changed. That is a fact.
You cannot match that with any of your books you follow. That is a fact.
You say, that the Prophet (pbuh) has copied from your NT and OT books to make the Quran. If that was the case, it will show that in it, it does not. The Quran teaches us that Jesus was the Messiah, Jews do not believe that they called him names I do not want to repeat as they are disrespectful to him, while I respect and love Jesus (pbuh). NT according to you teaches Trinity. The Prophet (pbuh) taught that it is not true. There is not such thing as Trinity, it is an invention and offense to God, who is One, and Jesus and the Spirit are under His command and they serve Him, His creations.

So, in plain English you have no face with that truth in front of you to deny it.

On top, we have many many verses we have gone over thousands of times to show you that within your book there is a ton of inconsistencies. And that is a fact.
you have no place to hide with those facts shining in front of you, choice is yours!
Hasan


Hasan,

   If I had to base my faith on a book that was "standardized" by Uthman, using "Hafsah's
Codex" as his model, then returning the codex to Hafsah as he promised, intact and undamaged, and then Muslim "authorities" DELIBERATELY DESTROY this ORIGINAL Qur'an DECADES later, I would not feel very comfortable in my faith.
   I am still waiting to hear your "explanation" of WHY Hafsah's Codex, the ORIGINAL Qur'an, was deliberately destroyed by later Muslim "authorities after Uthman used it as his guide and returned it UNHARMED to Hafsah. After all, Hafsah was one of the "prophet's" many wives and guarded the codex jealously until her death.
   You can talk about what the "prophet" (an odd designation for someone who made absolutely NO actual "prophecies" at all, which by Biblical standards would be condemned as a "false prophet"), did or said all you want, it means nothing to me. You can quote the Qur'an a million times and it will still mean nothing to me.
   You have disrespect for my religion and I have even more disrespect for yours. So I guess that makes us even.
   I am tired of listening to the same nonsense from you about the "fact" that the Qur'an hasn't been altered in ANY way, which is absurd, since Uthman, But strangely enough, Ibn Masud and Ubayy B. Ka'ab's "Quran's" are not identical to Uthman's "mushaf." Ibn Masud's mushaf, the "Kufan Codex" still exists as does Ubayy B. Ka'ab's Qur'an that has two complete surahs, Surah Al-Khal and Surah Al-Afd, not found in the "official" version of the Qur'an.
   The words Islam, Muslim, Muhammad, Qur'an, etc. have no historical record or evidence that predates Muhammad's supposed "revelations" in the seventh century A.D. And that is a fact.
   Of the three "holy" books, the Old Testament, the New Testament and the Qur'an, it is only the Qur'an that has deep, repetitive and serious discrepancies and errors with both the Old and New Testaments. And all Muslims can say is that any part of the Old and New Testaments that they feel "support" the views of the Qur'an, is the "proof" of the truth of the Qur'an, and anything that disagrees with the Qur'an, which the Old and New Testaments do MANY times, is somehow "corrupted" by the very people who had those faiths long before Muhammad and his "revelations" came along. What a ridiculous argument that is, a rather "convenient" excuse for the discrepancies and errors of the Qur'an, wouldn't you say?
   I would simply compare and contrast the lives, teachings and actions of Jesus Christ and Muhammad to see who represents truth and holiness. Jesus Christ didn't rob peaceful Meccan caravans, Jesus Christ didn't acquiesce to the murders of 800 Quraysa Jews of Medina, Jesus Christ did not charge "protection money" from conquered nations, simply for them to continue in their own faiths, even though, supposedly, "There is no compulsion in religion, truth stands out clear from error." Jesus Christ didn't have multiple wives and concubines, specifically allowed to him by one of his "revelations," or marry a six year old Aisha, daughter of one of his "companions" and then consummate the marriage when she was nine years old, Jesus Christ did not have "revelations" from God Himself that dictated the amount of war booty and protection money that was to be paid to the "messenger" and his immediate family (the actual amount was 20%). Jesus Christ didn't refer to a blind man (Umayr Ibn Adi), who murdered a woman suckling her baby (Asma Bint Marwan) because she made fun of the "messenger" in poems, Umayr "basir" "the seeing" The "messenger" derisively said that "No two goats will butt together about her." Etc., etc., etc.
   If THIS is your idea of the perfect and "ideal" man, then you have much lower standards for that designation than Christians and Jews have.
   So, you can denigrate my faith all you want and insult me with snide remarks, go for it. I could really care less. I have read the entire Qur'an here on this site and I found it repetitive, verbose, incoherent at times, repeating the same message thousands of times (believe in Allah and the "messenger" and do whatever they "messenger" tells you to do or you will burn in hell forever). The Qur'an makes mistakes about people named in the Bible, confuses one person for another, events in the Bible are altered, locations are changed from Israel to Mecca (such as "Ibrahim and Ishmael" building the original Kaaba, even though Abraham never set foot in Arabia (when he would have been over 100 years old, no less), etc.
   I prefer the grandeur of the Bible, the historical accuracy of the Bible, the seamless way that the Old and New Testaments fit together, the truth of REAL Prophets and the fulfillment of their prophecies, The beauty of the Psalms, the beauty of the Song of Solomon, the EXTENSIVE and COMPLETE geneaologies (that never mention "Muhammad" at all), of the early Patriarchs, the histories in I-II Samuel, I-II Kings, Chronicles, etc., and the message and narrative that flows seamlessly through both the Old and New Testaments. The prophecy of the Messiah and it's fulfillment in Jesus Christ, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, in ONE, The "Holy Trinity." And, Jesus Christ makes it CRYSTAL CLEAR that He and God are ONE with the Holy Spirit.
   So, unless you have something NEW to say, I would suggest you keep it to yourself, because it has bored me to tears.

Larry


Larry,
so you admit your defeat as you fail to address my challenge to you rather you take the easy way by writing a story.
Let me repeat:
We have a Quran that is fourteen hundred years old copy, it is same in contents to those in circulation around the globe.
What I asked you and challenged you with was, can you make a similar claim for Bible. Do you have a copy of the Bible that is fourteen hundred years old and be same in contents to those in circulation around the world?
Where?
How it is that you claim so much, but cannot come up with such a simple answer to a simple question, even a fourth grader would even understand it after repeating this many times , can you?
I do not mean to offend you but let us see I will hold off my judgement about that till I see your answer, if you can do such a simple thing. Remember the answer is simple: "yes", there is and it is in such and such place, or "no" there is not a fourteen hundered year old Bible that is exactly like the one we have today!
Hasan


Hasan,

   I should "admit defeat" because you fail to answer questions posed to you concerning your own religion? As usual, when you can't answer a question you merely accuse others of being at fault and, conveniently, simply refuse to answer and then proclaiming your "victory!" LOL! Simply look back at the last few "conversations" we have had and see how many points I have made in extensive questions and comments to you, only to have you "answer" in short, nonsensical "replies" which do not address almost anything I have said or asked.

    I don't know why you feel that because the Qur'an has not been "rewritten" in the last 1,400 years that it somehow "proves" that the Qur'an is true. But, the problem you have is that the ORIGINAL Qur'an, Hafsah's Codex" was deliberately destroyed by Muslim authorities DECADES after Uthman "standardized" the Qur'an.
   
    If you want me to accept the absurd notion that the very first, ORIGINAL Qur'an, written just TWO YEARS after the death of Muhammad and carefully kept by his wife, Hafsah, was destroyed because of "punctuation" or "diacritical marks," then you are talking to the wrong person, I am not that naive and st**id.

   If Uthman had NO PROBLEMS WITH HAFSAH'S CODEX, and in fact, actually USED it to make "four perfect copies" and then return it, unharmed and undamaged to Hafsah, then there must be a reason. Why did it take DECADES for Muslim "authorities" to decide that "Hafsah's Codex" represented a threat to the legitimacy of Uthman's "mushaf" and must therefore be destroyed by burning? People don't burn things to bring understanding and truth, they burn things because there is something to hide.

   You may believe in fairy tales and unsupportable conclusions, just don't expect me to believe such nonsense and rubbish.

   In Christianity and Judaism there are thousands of manuscripts and sources for the Old and New Testaments, and many writings not included in those two texts, some of them not accepted as true writings or being of problematic or unknown provenance, such as the Apocrypha. But EVEN those writings are NOT DESTROYED, they are kept and studied to determine through scholarly research what they are and who wrote them and perhaps why. Biblical scholarship has always been conducted this way. If Jews and Christians followed the Muslim example, we would simply agree on a single reading and then destroy ANY works that threaten or contradict it. But Jews and Christians do not destroy original, ancient writings, just because they are non-canonical, all information is required to make scholarly opinions and research, even those that aren't accepted as true Biblical text.

   So, your "argument" that the "truth" of Islam is "proven" because the Qur'an hasn't been changed AFTER Uthman's mushaf, is simply unsupportable because there ARE NO ORIGINAL or previous scripts of the Qur'an to judge the "truth" and accuracy of Uthman's version.

   But, interestingly, there are two VARIANT versions of the Qur'an that DO still exist. There is Ibn Masud's Qur'an (Kufan Codex) that lacks Surahs 1, 113 and 114, and Ubayy B. Ka'ab's Qur'an that contains TWO ADDITIONAL COMPLETE SURAHS, "Surah al-Khal" and "Surah al-Afd," that are NOT included in the "official" Qur'an.

   So much for your Fairy Tales!

   If this is your idea of the "perfect Qur'an" you can count me out. There are so many internal contradictions and problems within the text of the Qur'an that I simply cannot accept it as true holy writ. You are free to believe what you want about me, about the Old and New Testaments, about Judaism or Christianity or anything else, that is youre right. Just don't expect everyone to agree with your "beliefs," especially ones based on unprovable circumstances with absolutely NO original documentation to back them up.

Larry

Edited by Larry - 29 October 2012 at 11:19pm
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 01 November 2012 at 3:17pm
Larry,
so by writing a fairy tale I should assume you do not have a fourteen hundred year old (that will be from 600 AD)a copy of the Bible that is just like the one we have in circulation today!
That will confirm unless you say no there is one, and where.
If you have any questions please place them in appropriate threads, as always we will address them.
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Larry Replybullet Posted: 01 November 2012 at 11:34pm
Originally posted by honeto

Larry,
so by writing a fairy tale I should assume you do not have a fourteen hundred year old (that will be from 600 AD)a copy of the Bible that is just like the one we have in circulation today!
That will confirm unless you say no there is one, and where.
If you have any questions please place them in appropriate threads, as always we will address them.
Hasan


   Really Hasan?

   Evidently you do not understand the English language as I replied to many of your points, but, as usual, you evade answering questions posed to you for which you have no answer.

   I provided my evidence as to why the present day Qur'an is NOT exactly the same as Hafsah's Codex, or Ibn Masud's Kufan Codex and Ubayy B. Ka'ab's Qur'an. This is obvious when comparing the three. HOW CAN THERE POSSIBLY BE DIFFERING VERSIONS OF THE QUR'AN if it was revealed perfectly word for word by God? Where did Ubayy B. Ka'ab's two ADDITIONAL surahs, Surah al-Khal and Surah al-Afd, come from? Why did Ibn Masud NOT include Surahs 1, 113 and 114 in his version, the "Kufan Codex?"

   When you decide to answer WHY there are three different Qur'ans and explain WHY the ORIGINAL Qur'an, Hafsah's Codex," was deliberately destroyed DECADES AFTER UTHMAN USED THIS EXACT SAME CODEX when creating his official version of the Qur'an. Uthman asked Hafsah to send the Codex to him, so that he could have "four perfect copies" made, and then returned the Codex to Hafsah UNHARMED AND UNBURNED, just as he had promised her.

   As I said before, people don't destroy writings to get to the truth, they destroy them because there is something to hide. And as of yet you have provided no answers to these statements of mine. You simply avoid answering and make some nonsensical reply that is irrelevant to the questions themselves.

   And, since the ORIGINAL Qur'an, compiled just TWO YEARS after the death of Muhammad, was deliberately destroyed, you have absolutely NO PROOF THAT THE DESTROYED ORIGINAL QUR'AN WAS IDENTICAL TO THE QUR'AN USED TODAY. Where is your "source" material?

   I'll answer that one...in ashes. It no longer exists.

   So, basically your position is absurd and utterly unprovable. If you want to talk about "fairy tales," Hasan, you need look no further than your own nonsensical claims.

As usual.

Larry


Edited by Larry - 01 November 2012 at 11:44pm
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Larry
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Quote Larry Replybullet Posted: 01 November 2012 at 11:41pm
Originally posted by honeto

Larry,
so by writing a fairy tale I should assume you do not have a fourteen hundred year old (that will be from 600 AD)a copy of the Bible that is just like the one we have in circulation today!
That will confirm unless you say no there is one, and where.
If you have any questions please place them in appropriate threads, as always we will address them.
Hasan


Hasan,

   You seem to have no problem using this thread to make your claims about the Bible and the Qur'an. The only times that you use the excuse of the "correct thread" is when you cannot answer the questions put to you.

   And "as always" you duck uncomfortable facts.

Hypocrite!

Larry

Edited by Larry - 01 November 2012 at 11:42pm
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 04 November 2012 at 3:34pm
Larry, I understand, when people cannot answer something it is a good trick to simply ask a question to avoid the shame. I will not fall into this trick of yours.
OK, I will make it even easier for you, let us see if you can take this simple challenge.
The Quran has several copies in the world that are a thousand years old, and they are identical word for word same as today's copies.
Can you point out to me a thousand year old copy of the Bible that has word for word same contents as today's Bible?
If you meet this challenge, I will also send you a personal gift.
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 04 November 2012 at 4:30pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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