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Interfaith Dialogue
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Kish
 
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Quote Kish Replybullet Posted: 17 September 2012 at 7:35pm
Originally posted by kish

If the God of Jesus and of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the same as Muhammad’s god you should not have a hard time showing and proving to everyone with historical and archeological references and evidence NOT WITH LINKS when the earliest use of that name was dated, by whom and where? If Allah is truly the name of the God of Moses and the Prophets this should be your easiest TASK!!!


. . . and still no answer to one of the most fundamental and basic question to Islam's belief, the name of Allah.

How can a person have a personal relationship with anyone without knowing their name or origin?

Okay, did Muhammad's father use the name Allah? If so was he Muslim?
Did Ishmael use the name Allah? If so was he Muslim?
Did Moses or Abraham use the name Allah? If so where they Muslim?

Please help the forum who are non-Muslim to understand this idea of Allah being the God of the Prophets.

I'll wait for an answer
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 19 September 2012 at 2:05pm
Kish,
on last page ice gave you the answer:
All Arabic Bibles (OT and Nt) both have word Allah for God.
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Larry
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Quote Larry Replybullet Posted: 19 September 2012 at 3:55pm
Originally posted by honeto



Larry, Kish and the like,
you have only shown how small and limited your sight is otherwise you would have not said what you did. Rejoice for your lack of understanding and blinds you all have put over your sight. It only make you look like little ones.

Yeah, yeah, same old thing.


First your Oops actually goes perfect for yourself, wonder how?

Yes, I do.


First, we are showing you a quote from your Bible, not because we need a proof, but you. And according to that, Jesus indeed cried to his Lord as "Allah" which is spelled in modern Bibles as "Eloh" with "i" which stands for "Oh" in Jesus' native Aramaic. If there were tape recorders at that time, his cries would be heard as you hear a Muslim calls upon God, "Allah".
Second, Muslims claim that God did not let the Jews kill Jesus (pbuh), we do not say that he was not put on the cross. Those are two different things.

   Oh, I see, Allah "allowed" Jesus Christ to be "put on the cross" but that He didn't die from being crucified? Did Allah magically, after allowing his "prophet" Jesus to be nailed to a cross, suddenly comes to His aid and removes him from the cross? How exactly was this "feat" accomplished, according to Muslims? And, who was the person that was supposedly "substituted" for Jesus on the cross? And, by the way, the Jews did not kill Jesus, Roman troops did.


So sorry to bust your bubble, again.

   You didn't "bust" my bubble, you admitted that Jesus was nailed to the cross, but provide no "explanation" for how Jesus got off of that cross. This is typical of the convolutions in your belief that you have to indulge in to maintain "your" version of what happened to Jesus on the cross. The Qur'an has no answer to this specific point of what happened to Jesus on the day that He was crucified, it just maintains that Jesus was not crucified.


On the subject of Allah or God, please start a separate thread and we will be glad to answer your question, this is not the thread for it.
Hasan


   Oh, I see, now you claim that this "thread" is not appropriate...for the discussions that you have been having with others for a long time on this "thread?" Or maybe the fact that your tightly knit "historical narrative" is falling apart at the seams?

Larry

Edited by Larry - 19 September 2012 at 4:03pm
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Kish
 
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Quote Kish Replybullet Posted: 20 September 2012 at 1:44pm
Originally posted by honeto

All Arabic Bibles (OT and Nt) both have word Allah for God.
 
Different titles for the English word God:

Arabic....................Allah

Assyrian.................. Eleah

Celtic......................Diu

Chinese..................Prussa

Egyptian (old).............Teut

English....................God

Hebrew...........Elohim, Eloha

Japanese................Goezur

 

. . . and the list goes on. Does that mean just because God has a different title or name in these languages that they worshipped God the same way that Moses, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob worshipped God or even the way Islam worship Allah, of course not.

God when spoken in Arabic is Allah. Allah when spoken in English means the God, that’s it! Just as the Assyrian and the Egyption say God in their language does that mean they worshipped Allah? No. Just because Islam say Allah, God in English does not mean they worshipped the same God of the Hebrews, Elohim or YHWH, God’s name.  

Hasan are you, ice or anyone going to ever answer my question?
 
Did Muhammad's father use the name Allah? If so was he Muslim?
Did Ishmael use the name Allah? If so was he Muslim?
Did Moses or Abraham use the name Allah? If so where they Muslim?



Edited by Kish - 20 September 2012 at 1:47pm
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Larry
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Quote Larry Replybullet Posted: 21 September 2012 at 3:14pm
Originally posted by honeto



Larry, Kish and the like,
you have only shown how small and limited your sight is otherwise you would have not said what you did. Rejoice for your lack of understanding and blinds you all have put over your sight. It only make you look like little ones.
First your Oops actually goes perfect for yourself, wonder how?
First, we are showing you a quote from your Bible, not because we need a proof, but you. And according to that, Jesus indeed cried to his Lord as "Allah" which is spelled in modern Bibles as "Eloh" with "i" which stands for "Oh" in Jesus' native Aramaic. If there were tape recorders at that time, his cries would be heard as you hear a Muslim calls upon God, "Allah".
Second, Muslims claim that God did not let the Jews kill Jesus (pbuh), we do not say that he was not put on the cross. Those are two different things.
So sorry to bust your bubble, again.
On the subject of Allah or God, please start a separate thread and we will be glad to answer your question, this is not the thread for it.
Hasan


   Another "inappropriate" thread, Hasan? As I said before, you seem to have little problem using "inappropriate" threads when you feel you have a winning argument. But, as usual, any points made by myself and others that you are uncomfortable with, or can not or will not address, you pull your famous "not the right thread for this conversation" nonsense and try to shift the focus elsewhere.

   Your replies are more and more resembling those of iec786, who also states "facts" and demands answers to questions and then refuses to discuss the issue if he feels he has a losing argument. Either way it is boring and a waste of time.

Larry
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 26 September 2012 at 3:39pm
Larry, Kish and the like,
you have only shown how small and limited your sight is otherwise you would have not said what you did. Rejoice for your lack of understanding and blinds you all have put over your sight. It only make you look like little ones.
First your Oops actually goes perfect for yourself, wonder how?
First, we are showing you a quote from your Bible, not because we need a proof, but you. And according to that, Jesus indeed cried to his Lord as "Allah" which is spelled in modern Bibles as "Eloh" with "i" which stands for "Oh" in Jesus' native Aramaic. If there were tape recorders at that time, his cries would be heard as you hear a Muslim calls upon God, "Allah".
Second, Muslims claim that God did not let the Jews kill Jesus (pbuh), we do not say that he was not put on the cross. Those are two different things.
So sorry to bust your bubble, again.
On the subject of Allah or God, please start a separate thread and we will be glad to answer your question, this is not the thread for it.
Larry, do you not read this thread deals with Jesus and if he was crucified. So if you want to talk about God, Allah, Dios being same, it will not be appropriate to discuss it here on this thread, just start a new thread with the topic you have in mind. Trust me we have the answers for you!
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Larry
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Quote Larry Replybullet Posted: 27 September 2012 at 4:14pm
Originally posted by honeto

Larry, Kish and the like,
you have only shown how small and limited your sight is otherwise you would have not said what you did. Rejoice for your lack of understanding and blinds you all have put over your sight. It only make you look like little ones.

   Your statement that "Larry, Kish and the like" should "rejoice" for our "lack of understanding.." Lack of understanding of what, Islam? I think I understand Islam enough to know that, in my opinion, not only is it a non-Abrahamic (Even though the Qur'an takes the name and personage of Abraham straight out of the Old Testament) religion, but not a legitimate religion at all.

First your Oops actually goes perfect for yourself, wonder how?

First, we are showing you a quote from your Bible, not because we need a proof, but you.

   Asd usual, when you or some other Muslims want to use the Bible to quote anything that you feel supports your religious beliefs or opinions, you seem to have a knowledge of which Biblical quotes are "uncorrupted", (and therefore useful) to you, but reject any Biblical passages that CONTRADICT the teachings of the Qur'an as "corrupted" text. A very "selective" form of belief I would say. I don't need to play such word games with my Bible.

And according to that, Jesus indeed cried to his Lord as "Allah" which is spelled in modern Bibles as "Eloh" with "i" which stands for "Oh" in Jesus' native Aramaic. If there were tape recorders at that time, his cries would be heard as you hear a Muslim calls upon God, "Allah".

   "According to that (my Bible), Jesus indeed cried to (H)is Lord as "Allah" which is spelled in modern Bibles as "Eloh with the "i" which stands for "Oh" in Jesus' native Aramaic. If there were "tape recorders" at that time, his cries could be heard as you hear a Muslim calls upon God, "Allah."

   My Bible says clearly:

   Matthew 27:46;

   "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is, My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?"

   According to you, it should be written "El" for God and "i" for "my." (Not quite "Allah" I would say)

   Mark 15:34-35;

   34. "And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" which is translated, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"
   35. "Some of those who stood by, when they heard that, said, "Look, He is calling for Elijah!"

   So then I guess it should be written, "Elo, Elo,
(which, like "Allah" has two syllables, and includes the letter "L", which is as close as it comes to "Allah," this is your proof?) lama sabachthani?" according to your theory?

   But some the people that were there thought He was calling on "Elijah" which would support the Biblical text because "Eli" or "Eloi" was heard by "some" of the witnesses as "Eli(jah). In that case the "i" was thought by some to be part of Elijah's name, not a separate word meaning "My." I don't think that "Allah" would be thought of as the word that Jesus used by some of the eyewitnesses.

   But I suppose that you simply believe that "Eli" or "Eloi" sounds enough like "Al-lah" to prove that Jesus did call on "Allah" specifically? Yeah, right.

   It is amazing how far SOME Muslims will try and bend and distort Biblical text to support their beliefs.

Second, Muslims claim that God did not let the Jews kill Jesus (pbuh), we do not say that he was not put on the cross. Those are two different things.
So sorry to bust your bubble, again.

     Sorry but I don't see how my "bubble" was burst by you or someone else.

   Let's get this straight.

   You say, "Muslims claim that God did not let the Jews kill Jesus (pbuh), we DO NOT say that he WAS NOT put on the cross. Those are two different things."

   So, you are saying that Jesus WAS in fact put on the cross, but that He (God) did not let the Jews kill Jesus?" Did "Allah" exchange another person for Jesus while He (Jesus) was on the cross?

   And, by the way, WHO WAS THE PERSON THAT ALLAH SUBSTITUTED FOR JESUS SO THAT IT WOULD APPEAR THAT THEY CRUCIFIED JESUS?

On the subject of Allah or God, please start a separate thread and we will be glad to answer your question, this is not the thread for it.

   I have no intention of starting another thread on "Allah" or "God," because I do not believe that they are the same God. As I have said before, I do not believe that "Allah" is the same God as the God of the Jews and Christians. I believe that "Allah" is a deity that emerged out of the pre-Islamic Arabic pagan religious traditions and that the Qur'an was later "grafted" by Muhammad's "revelations" onto already existing religious texts, the Old and New Testaments.

   So, what would be the point in a new thread? Just another endless argument that changes no one's minds.

Larry, do you not read this thread deals with Jesus and if he was crucified. So if you want to talk about God, Allah, Dios being same, it will not be appropriate to discuss it here on this thread, just start a new thread with the topic you have in mind. Trust me we have the answers for you.

   "Trust me we have the answers for you!"

   Answers from where, the Qur'an? Why on earth would I ever believe anything that comes out of the Qur'an?

   I would rather read the main two "sources" of the Qur'an, the Old and New Testaments, whose teachings, stories and persons, were, "borrowed" wholesale for inclusion into the "new" book, the Qur'an.

Larry

Hasan


Edited by Larry - 27 September 2012 at 4:32pm
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Quote Kish Replybullet Posted: 27 September 2012 at 5:08pm
Originally posted by honeto

Second, Muslims claim that God did not let the Jews kill Jesus (pbuh), we do not say that he was not put on the cross.
Those are two different things.


You also do not say that your Prophet WAS put on the cross (stake) to die as the other prophets and scriptures say he would. Perhaps you forgot what the original topic was so here it is again Hasan and ice, was it Jesus that said and I quote you . . .

Originally posted by honeto

Jesus indeed cried to his Lord as "Allah" which is spelled in modern Bibles as "Eloh" with "i" which stands for "Oh" in Jesus'
native Aramaic.


Are you now agreeing that it was Jesus hanging there crying out "Eloh" or Allah and not an imposter like Judas which Muslims assume? It's either yes, no or you don't know.

Read your own quote again, it sounds like you are agreeing after all since you are saying it was Jesus words, right? Or do you think it was Jesus words and Judas body?

Edited by Kish - 27 September 2012 at 5:13pm
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