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Interfaith Dialogue
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 19 June 2008 at 11:34am
believer,
its not about how you take a verse, it is about what its saying. We can each interpret and understand about God making the Earth in "six days" differently, I understand that. 
But here is a man, John who is quoted to have been describing what he saw, remember he says: hair white like wool, as white as snow , that I can understand he is just comparing the hair to snow or wool, understood.
But he does not compare, when he describe what he saw further : "and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword"
To me this description of John's vision of what he saw and described is not how God is but with these words I see what John is describing literally.
That's my understanding.
 
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 19 June 2008 at 11:34am
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote believer Replybullet Posted: 19 June 2008 at 2:03pm
OK, You are saying you believe it is an actual sword coming out of the "son of man's" mouth?
 
honeto- I find that very interesting.  That is very interesting!!
 
Do you see how the sword might mean a judgement spoken by GOD? 
 
Do you own a Bible?  If you look at the verse and see the letter aboove the verse mine happens to have a small b, then look at the center column you will see where that phrase is used in another part of Scriputure.  These are the verses listed with that verse-
 
Isaiah 1

 20 but if you resist and rebel,
       you will be devoured by the sword."
       For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.

Isaiah 49

 2 He made my mouth like a sharpened sword,
       in the shadow of his hand he hid me;
       he made me into a polished arrow
       and concealed me in his quiver

Hebrews 4

 12For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

Revelation 2
 
 12"To the angel of the church in Pergamum write:
      These are the words of him who has the sharp, double-edged sword
 
...
 
16Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth
 
Revelation 19
 
15Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter." He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.
 
...

21The rest of them were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 20 June 2008 at 4:27pm

believer,

I just find such word and expressions used in the Bible to be of poor taste in my judgement, specially when they are associated with the Devine or devinely guided people, and be part of a "Holy book".
Since I am not used to such words associated to the prophets of God or God in the Quran, they seem odd and desrespectful to me.
Hasan
 


Edited by honeto - 20 June 2008 at 4:28pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote robin Replybullet Posted: 23 June 2008 at 11:43pm

JESUS SAID HE WOULD DIE!

 
Jesus Christ as one of God’s prophets, cannot lie, he said he would die, not someone in his place!

 
Matthew 16:21

From that time forward Jesus Christ commenced showing his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the older men and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised up.

 

Matthew 17:22-23

It was while they were gathered together in Gal´i·lee that Jesus said to them: “The Son of man is destined to be betrayed into men’s hands, 23 and they will kill him, and the third day he will be raised up.” Consequently they were very much grieved.

 

Matthew 20:17-19

Being now about to go up to Jerusalem, Jesus took the twelve disciples off privately and said to them on the road: 18 “Look! We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of man will be delivered up to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn him to death, 19 and will deliver him up to [men of] the nations to make fun of and to scourge and to impale, and the third day he will be raised up.”

 

Mark 8:31

Also, he started teaching them that the Son of man must undergo many sufferings and be rejected by the older men and the chief priests and the scribes and be killed, and rise three days later.

 

Luke 9:22

but said: “The Son of man must undergo many sufferings and be rejected by the older men and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised up.”

 

Luke 24:46

and he said to them: “In this way it is written that the Christ would suffer and rise from among the dead on the third day,

 

John 3:14

And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so the Son of man must be lifted up,

 

John 12:30-34

In answer Jesus said: “This voice has occurred, not for my sake, but for YOUR sakes. 31 Now there is a judging of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. 32 And yet I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw men of all sorts to me.” 33 This he was really saying to signify what sort of death he was about to die. 34 Therefore the crowd answered him: “We heard from the Law that the Christ remains forever; and how is it you say that the Son of man must be lifted up?. . .

 

John 20:9

For they did not yet discern the scripture that he must rise from the dead.

 

 

If Jesus himself did not die, that would make him a false prophet as what he said was not true and thus he would not be s servant of God (Allah)!



Edited by robin - 23 June 2008 at 11:44pm
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 24 June 2008 at 3:21pm
In Islam we believe that Jesus (pbuh) was born, served his mission for which he was sent, and he was taken up to God.
We believe that it is his life that has a purpose and was of more importance than his death (as Christians believe).
We believe that he was sent to guide those who strayed from the straight path. We believe God does not grant salvation through blood sacrifice, as such has been a pagan ritual for pleasing gods.
 
Hasan
 


Edited by honeto - 24 June 2008 at 3:25pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote myahya Replybullet Posted: 25 June 2008 at 7:04am
Robin: If Jesus himself did not die, that would make him a false prophet as what he said was not true and thus he would not be s servant of God (Allah)!

Matthew 17:22-23

It was while they were gathered together in Gal´i·lee that Jesus said to them: “The Son of man is destined to be betrayed into men’s hands, 23 and they will kill him, and the third day he will be raised up.”


Matthew 20:17-19

Being now about to go up to Jerusalem, Jesus took the twelve disciples off privately and said to them on the road: “Look! We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of man will be delivered up to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn him to death, 19 and will deliver him up to [men of] the nations to make fun of and to scourge and to impale, and the third day he will be raised up.”


Mark 8:31

Also, he started teaching them that the Son of man must undergo many sufferings and be rejected by the older men and the chief priests and the scribes and be killed, and rise three days later.


From what I see, even if we assume the above verses are surely right and not corrupted, the bottom line is that Isa (as) is not talking about himself in these verses. He seems to be referring to another one.

Even if, on the other hand, Isa (as) has said to his disciples that he will die, how can you conclude (today) that his death is already happened?



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Quote minuteman Replybullet Posted: 30 June 2008 at 11:48pm
 
  Every where in the above post references by Robin, it is said that the son of man,,,, Son of Man,  Son of man...  Jesus was not son of man. He was son of a woman (as per Quran). he was son of God as per christians belief. So please settle this issue about jesus. Is he really the son of man?? Then tell which man?? This is a question to the christian friends here. Please teach us the real things as per bible.
If any one is bad some one must suffer
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 03 July 2008 at 8:47am
Originally posted by minuteman

 
  Every where in the above post references by Robin, it is said that the son of man,,,, Son of Man,  Son of man...  Jesus was not son of man. He was son of a woman (as per Quran). he was son of God as per christians belief. So please settle this issue about jesus. Is he really the son of man?? Then tell which man?? This is a question to the christian friends here. Please teach us the real things as per bible.
 
 
Yes Jesus was born of a woman Smile It has nothing to do with genics.
According to wikipedia, in ancient Mesopotamia, "son of man" was used to denote humanity or self.
 
Some christians, signify Jesus upholding his identification with his humanity and fellowship with mankind, perhaps also conveying the idea that Jesus is the man par excellence. In this last context it serves as putting humans and Jesus on the same level.
 
Jewish interpretation
  1. As generally interpreted by Jews, denotes mankind generally, with special reference to their weakness and frailty (Job 25:6; Psalms 8:4; 144:3; 146:3; Book of Isaiah 51:12, etc.).
  2. It is a title frequently given to the prophet Ezekiel, probably to remind him of his human weakness.

Additionally, the Biblical book of Daniel mentions the prophet's vision of the coming of one 'like a son of man'; possibly implying that this is not actually a man but a divine figure.

When interpreting the Bible, one cannot exclusively rely on English translations. Son of man in Job 25 is ben adam (Hebrew: בן־אדם‎), and "son of man" in Psalms 144 is ben enosh (Hebrew: בן־אנוש‎).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_Man#Christian_interpretation

 
 
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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