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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
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Shasta'sAunt
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Quote Shasta'sAunt Replybullet Posted: 02 May 2008 at 6:24pm
Originally posted by believer

Shasta's aunt- you are not understanding. 
 
At one time the Christians did fight one another over how to worship, interprete the Bible, who should pastor a church, etc. That is what 5:14 is talking about.  Fighting over religious matters,  not what is going on with Bush and his war on terror. 
 
Also 5:14 is talking about Christian against Christian not Christian against Muslim. 
 
This is still happening today. Look how "mainstream" Christians treat Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc...  It is extremely interesting given that Christianity in it's modern form was spread by the Catholic Church, and if it were not for the Holy See Christianity might have stalled and withered away. Historically speaking....
 
There are Christians fighting Christians, at any time there are any number of wars and skirmishes occuring all over the world, not to mention crime.


Edited by Shasta'sAunt - 02 May 2008 at 6:44pm
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt
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Shasta'sAunt
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Quote Shasta'sAunt Replybullet Posted: 02 May 2008 at 6:40pm
Originally posted by dzkouns

It is so unfortunate how faith can be hijacked by a government.  It happened with Constantine, Hitler, and the American Republican Party for Christians.  I know it happens in Islam as well.  I think what I've learned from engaging in these conversations and the class I'm taking on Islam now is that faith really comes down to just that- faith.  You can throw all the proof texts against Christianity all day, but the only way I would ever convert to Islam is if Jesus Christ Himself showed up at my door and told me to convert.  I think that it would be the same for you.  I think that I sometimes try to strip down religion to logic and philosophy, but I know that my heart is anchored in Jesus Christ and that I shouldn't expect others to be so shallow in their faith that they would abandon their beliefs at the drop of a couple questions.  I am not comprimising my faith- I still believe that Christ is the only means for salvation and Heaven.  I apologize if anything I have posted has come off as rude or argumentative. 

 
It's all about faith. Faith that God exists to begin with, then you go from there.
 
I think I can come off as aggressive at times, but that is only because it seems as though Islam itself is taking a beating and people just don't want to really listen to what normal, everyday Muslims have to say about the religion they love and live daily. Every Muslim on the board will tell you about the beauty of Islam. Many of us are reverts. Do you really think we would willingly accept a religion of hatred and intolerance? Do you think we would think that beautiful?
 
What I find most frustrating is the double standard. If someone is a Muslim, whether they practice Islam or not, when they do something wrong it is because of Islam and it suddenly becomes a tenant of our faith. When a Christian does something wrong, they aren't a "real" Christian or they are not following Christianity. End of story.
 
Having been a Christian for most of my life, I do have a working knowledge of Christianity, so it is difficult for me not to respond in kind when I feel that Islam is under attack.  Therefore I must apologise also. It is not my intention to undermine Christianity or mock anyone's beliefs, but rather to show that given a certain mindset and taking things completely out of context can make any religion look bad.  It is up to us as individuals to look beyond this and try to see the truth.
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt
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Quote dzkouns Replybullet Posted: 03 May 2008 at 6:11am

Shasta'sAunt- So you're a revert?  Do you mind me asking what demoniation of Christianity you practiced and how you came to Islam?  I think it is very interesting when Christians convert to Islam because of the Christian doctrine on Perserverance of the Saints (Yes, I admit it, I am Calvinist in my understanding of salvation!)

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Quote Shasta'sAunt Replybullet Posted: 03 May 2008 at 7:59pm
Originally posted by dzkouns

Shasta'sAunt- So you're a revert?  Do you mind me asking what demoniation of Christianity you practiced and how you came to Islam?  I think it is very interesting when Christians convert to Islam because of the Christian doctrine on Perserverance of the Saints (Yes, I admit it, I am Calvinist in my understanding of salvation!)

 
My mother was raised Catholic and my father Baptist. We first went to Baptist services, but as I got older I went to different churches. I was searching.
 
I don't really know anything about Calvinism, but I did do a search when I read this post. In the Baptist church there are some who believe that once you are saved you are always saved, no matter what. I think this might be close to the beliefs of the Calvinists?
 
Even as a child I did not believe that one person could be held responsible for the mistakes, or sins of another: Adam, nor did I believe that one person could pay for the mistakes/sins of another.  The whole concept of all of mankind being tainted for the sin of Adam made absolutely no sense to me. If I didn't personally commit the sin, how could I be guilty for it? Just as the concept of Jesus being sacrificed to atone for my sins, but in a greater sense the original sin of Adam, made no sense to me.
 
Even a small child can see that if you are the one who lies or breaks the vase, you are the one punished for it.  I never understood how all of mankind was collectively punished, then collectively forgiven through the death of another, without doing anything at all.  I am born so I am a sinner, I accept that Jesus died for me and I am not. In the meantime I haven't done anything....
 
I guess I didn't understand how God could create man just to punish him willy nilly, without rhyme or reason.  That didn't seem fair, just or loving in any way. Nor did the human sacrifice of Jesus to make up for the sins that man committed and inherited.  How is it that I can sin, yet be saved just because someone else died? Where is my personal responsiblity in any of this, and why would God create man then play such strange and unjust games with His creation?
 
I also had difficulty believing the doctrine of the Trinity. God is monotheistic, yet He is three separate entities. 
 
There was no logic behind this doctrine and I began questioning it at a very early age.  I believed that God was a Fair and Loving God.
I also believe that as a rational being who has been created with intelligence and the ability to reason, that I must be held responsible for my own sins, and try to work towards my own salvation.
 
Surely God did not create man just to confuse and punish him. That would not be a loving God at all. So, I started studying other religions, looking for something that was missing. I think I was looking for logic, something that gave me a sense of rightness (for lack of a better word), and verification that God is Loving, Forgiving, Just, and Fair.  That all men are judged equally and given the same criterion for salvation, we only have to strive to meet that criterion. 
 
In Islam we believe, although sometimes shamefully do not practice, that all men are equal, money, status, power, beauty do not matter, they are raised above others by Allah only by their righteousness.  But it is that individual's righteousness, not collective, not third party, not preordained by Allah.  In Islam you truly do reap what you sow. 
 
Very simply, there is truth in Islam.   
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt
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Quote believer Replybullet Posted: 06 May 2008 at 4:46am
Shasta's Aunt- Ok, I think I see, you are equating diassagreement and discussion with fighting.
 
You believe the statment to mean complete harmony.  Does that also mean only one expression of Christian faith?
 
Just curious about your opinion.  Do you believe that Muslims are all in harmony?  I have spoken with some that believe yes and others that say no.
 
 
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Quote Shasta'sAunt Replybullet Posted: 07 May 2008 at 2:18am
Originally posted by believer

Shasta's Aunt- Ok, I think I see, you are equating diassagreement and discussion with fighting.
 
You believe the statment to mean complete harmony.  Does that also mean only one expression of Christian faith?
 
Just curious about your opinion.  Do you believe that Muslims are all in harmony?  I have spoken with some that believe yes and others that say no.
 
 
 
I think the original verse from The Quran said enmity and hatred, not necessarily war. You stated that at one time this was true but now all Christians live in peace together, but I disagree with this statement. Leaving military conflict aside, all Christians do not necessarily live without enmity or hatred. 
 
I do not think all Muslims are in harmony, but we all have the same basic beliefs. 
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 07 May 2008 at 1:16pm
Hi,
great conversation and replies by everyone. I guess it comes down to the fact, that people will be people regardless what they follow or claim to follow. Whether be Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Communist, Capitalist etc. If each one follow its course and doctrine correctly will not fight but for the right and Justice, and not otherwise.
 
And I guess it is also the very reason that we are having this talk to find answers to our questions and to understand things better. Hopefully thus we help to make a differance individually, toward a better outcome for ourself and for others!
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote believer Replybullet Posted: 07 May 2008 at 6:02pm

Galatians 6

 7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

James 2    

Faith and Deeds
 14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

 18But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
      Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

 19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

 20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. 24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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