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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 08 May 2008 at 9:38am
believer,
that is right, every action and intention a man does, he will reap it then. A true believer is the one who knows the rights and duties of others put on him by God. It is through doing good and avoiding bad in truth that God will overlook and forgive your bad actions you did but repented.
That is quite unlike the blood sacrifice idea that Christians try to sell, that the price of sin is death and one can only be saved by a blood sacrifice, and not just by God's forgiveness and good works of an individual.
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 08 May 2008 at 9:42am
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote believer Replybullet Posted: 09 May 2008 at 7:01am
Think of Jesus' sacrifice as covering the part leftover when  our good deeds fall short of erasing all the bad deeds.
 
Christians believe that everyone is incapable of erasing all their bad deeds.
 
Am I understanding that Muslims believe they are able to be perfect-sinless?
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Shasta'sAunt
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Quote Shasta'sAunt Replybullet Posted: 09 May 2008 at 6:18pm
Originally posted by believer

Think of Jesus' sacrifice as covering the part leftover when  our good deeds fall short of erasing all the bad deeds.
 
Christians believe that everyone is incapable of erasing all their bad deeds.
 
Am I understanding that Muslims believe they are able to be perfect-sinless?
 
If Jesus wipes out part of our sins, then we are not reaping what we sow.
 
Muslims do not believe man can be perfect-sinless, we believe that Allah is very forgiving of man's sin when they repent with sincerity and truly strive to be righteous.
 
Man will never be equal to Allah in perfection or lack of sin, and Allah as our Creator knows this. How could He not know it?  So, why would Allah create us as imperfect beings, then expect us to be perfect?  
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 12 May 2008 at 3:11pm

Well said Shasta's Aunt.

believer,you wrote:
"Christians believe that everyone is incapable of erasing all their bad deeds. Am I understanding that Muslims believe they are able to be perfect-sinless?"
I don't know why it is said in your bible that once you are a true Christian, you will not sin no more? you did not think it was possible, right??
But look here in your own book what it says:
It is John quoted here to have said:
1 John 2
9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; "
 
Just as Shasta's Aunt said we, Muslims  seek God's forgiveness, which is promised for those who repent. In fact your book says that as well.
Luke 13:5 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish."
We know every day , every moment we make mistakes, and a true believer asks God's forgivess as many times. And this we don't do through a self appointed intermediatory, but directly to God, even in our heart and it reaches Him. God is The Forgiving, The Merciful. 
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Edited by honeto - 12 May 2008 at 3:14pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote believer Replybullet Posted: 12 May 2008 at 7:17pm
honeto I think you meant-1 John 3:9.  Read the whole thing.  I think of this as more of a pep talk.  
 
1 John 3
 
1How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 3Everyone who has this hope in him purifies himself, just as he is pure.

 4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

 7Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Quote Nur_Ilahi Replybullet Posted: 13 May 2008 at 6:41am

Our souls were born perfect. NO SOULS WERE BORN IMPERFECT.

But the NAFS or the lust/passion/desire and the Satan in us leads us astray from the ONE TRUE GOD. And God also created in us the Angels to lead us to Him. He also created in us the 'Aqal or brain that can differentiate right from wrong. However the brain or intellect cannot work without 'ilmu or knowledge of God Almighty. with the knowledge of God, the NAFS could be tamed and Satan's grip could be weakened. However, for Muslims, 'ilmu or knowledge is not enough if it is not being practised. (amal)
 
That is why ALLAH IS AL-GHAFUR- MOST FORGIVING. ALLAH IS AT-TAWWAB - THE ACCEPTER OF REPENTANCE. AND HE IS AR-RAHMAN AND AR-RAHEEM - MOST COMPASSIONATE AND MOST MERCIFUL.
 
 
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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Quote Tariq Replybullet Posted: 15 May 2008 at 10:00am

WHAT THEY SAY

CHRISTIANS CONFESS

Dr. W. Graham Scroggie of the MOODY BIBLE INSTITUTE, Chicago, one of the most prestigious Christian Evangelical Mission in the world, answering the question — "Is the Bible the Word of God?" (also the title of his book), under the heading: IT IS HUMAN, YET DIVINE. He says on page 17:

"Yes, the Bible is human, though some, out of zeal which is not according to knowledge, 1 have denied this. Those books2 have passed through the minds of men, are written in the language of men, were penned by the hands of men, and bear in their style the characteristics of men." (Emphasis added).

Another erudite Christian scholar, Kenneth Cragg, the Anglican Bishop of Jerusalem, says on page 277 of his book, "The Call of the Minaret":

"Not so the New Testament3 . . . There is condensation and editing; 4 there is choice, reproduction and witness. The Gospels have come through the mind of the Church behind the authors. They represent experience and history." 5

If words have any meaning, do we need to add another word of comment to prove our case? No! But the professional propagandists, after letting the cat out of the bag, still have the face to try to make their readers believe that they have proved beyond the shadow of any doubt that the Bible is the "irrefragable 6 Word of God." Their semantic gymnastics — equivocating, and playing with words — is amazing!

1. Out of ignorance.

2. The Bible is not Just a Book. It is a selection and compilation of many books.

3. As opposed to the Qur’ân.

4. Another word for Interpolating.

5. Emphasis are mine.

6. Indisputable.

Both these Doctors of Religion are telling us in the clearest language humanly possible that the Bible is the handiwork of man, all the while pretending that the are proving to the contrary. An old Arab saying goes: "IF SUCH ARE THE PRIESTS, GOD BLESS THE CONGREGATION."

With this sort of drivel, the hot-gospeller and the Bible-thumper is "inspired" to harry the "heathen." 1 A theological student — a not-yet-qualified young evangelist — from the University of Witwatersrand, became a frequent visitor to the Newtown Mosque in Johannesburg, with the "noble" thought of "witnessing"2 to the members of its congregation. When I was introduced to him, (and having learnt his purpose), I invited him to lunch at my brother's residence — a stone's-throw from the Mosque. While discussing the authenticity of the Bible over the dinner table and sensing his stubborn dogmatism, I put out a feeler: "Your Professor Geyser, (The Head of the Department of Theology) does not believe the Bible to be the Word of God." Without the slightest surprise he answered, "I know." Now I personally had no knowledge of the Professor's conviction about the Bible. I had only assumed so from a controversy which raged around him about the "Divinity of Christ." 3 He had taken issue with the orthodox believers on this point some years ago. I continued further, saying, "Your lecturer does not believe the Bible as being God's Word." The young evangelist, responded again, "I know" but he continued this time-with the words, "but I believe that it is the Word of God!" There is no real remedy for such people. Even Jesus bewailed this sickness:

"... seeing they see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand." (Matthew 13:13)

Al-Qur'an, the Holy Book of God, also condemns this mulish mentality:

These pages are now addressed to those sincerely humble souls, who are genuinely interested in seeking the Light of God, and who wish to be guided by it. As for the other, with a sickness in their souls, the facts presented herein can only increase the disease of their hearts.

1. See "How Lost are the Heathen?" by the same MOODY PRESS of Dr. Scroggie.

2. When the Christian talks of "witnessing" he means propagating, proselytizng, converting.

3. This subject is dealt extensively in the book — "CHRIST IN ISLAM"

 

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Quote believer Replybullet Posted: 17 May 2008 at 6:54pm

I don't think it matters if you believe in the original sin or that man was born perfect.  All die having sinned, none are perfect.

What does the Muslim believe is the cause of death?
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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