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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
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Servetus
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Quote Servetus Replybullet Posted: 14 May 2008 at 10:09am

YHWH can make himself present with and in people and places: this is distinct from his omnipresence. (Exodus 33:14–15; Joel 2:27–29)

vs.

Allah is everywhere at once, but nowhere in particular: he indwells nothing. (Q2:109; Q4:125)

One wonders (if only for polemical purposes, naturally).  Does the author of this table mean to either suggest or imply that the Muslims are somehow losing out because the Quran excludes the story about Moses who, when he asked to see God's face, was shown God's "back side" instead (Ex. 33:23)?


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Edited by Servetus - 14 May 2008 at 1:47pm
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Quote Shasta'sAunt Replybullet Posted: 14 May 2008 at 11:51pm
Originally posted by Rukkaiyah

Salam,

Christians follow the New Testament which was changed by St Peter. St Peter had added his own thoughts and made it ok to eat anything. This is not what Jesus (PBUH) had propogated, but what was amended in the new testament by St Peter.

So in fact, the covenant is still one.
 
Saul is both a Prophet and Messenger of God as these definitions have the same meaning. A Prophet propogates the message from God.
 
All Praises due to Allah.
 
Salaam,
 
St. Peter, or Simon, is credited with having written only two epistles, though theologians doubt whether either were actually written by him. Much of the NT was written by Saul, who is mostly responsible for doing away with the covenants of the OT.

"Unlike Judaism and Christianity, Islam distinguishes between a direct messenger of God (rasul) and a prophet (nabi). Both are divinely inspired recipients of God's revelation. However, in addition, nabis are given a divine message or revelation for a community in book form. While every nabi is a rasul, not every rasul is a nabi."

Islamically Saul is not among the Prophets of the Quran, nor have I found any mention of him in Hadith, though there are so many it would be easy to miss.  I am wondering if you could post the information you have giving him this status in Islam.
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by Shasta'sAunt - 14 May 2008 at 11:52pm
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt
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Quote believer Replybullet Posted: 15 May 2008 at 6:50am
People get very confued about Jesus fulfilling and/or abolishing the Law.   Jesus fufills the Law for some and abolishes the Law for others.  The main important point being what is in your heart, not your outward appearance and rituals. 
 
Ephesians 2
 
11Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called "uncircumcised" by those who call themselves "the circumcision" (that done in the body by the hands of men)— 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.

 14For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

 19Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

 
I think most Muslims really detest Paul.
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 15 May 2008 at 12:03pm

Servetus what does: when he asked to see God's face, was shown God's "back side" instead (Ex. 33:23)? mean?

See bold
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Rukkaiyah
 
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Quote Rukkaiyah Replybullet Posted: 16 May 2008 at 12:01am
Most muslims I know don't even know who Paul is, so we cannot generalise and say muslims hate Paul.
 
Muslims are not supposed to hate anyone except the evil that people do, and guide people away from doing so.
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Servetus
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Quote Servetus Replybullet Posted: 16 May 2008 at 10:55am

And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen. (Exodus 33:23)”

Originally posted by Israfil

Servetus
what does: when he [Moses] asked to see God's face, was shown God's "back side" instead (Ex. 33:23)? mean?

It’s good that I placed it in quotation marks because the King James translates it as “back parts,” not “back side,” though, to me, the difference between these two is insignificant.

What does the statement mean?  That’s a good question and I don’t know whom to ask.  I think that this is clearly one of those scriptures which, because it contains anthropomorphisms, e.g., references to God’s hand, face, back parts, etc., is potentially problematic at best.  Please recall, again, that Maimonides, after familiarizing himself with the ahadith and Quran, wherein he found comparatively few anthropomorphic conceptions of God (as has the author of the above table, it seems), evidently found it necessary to both address the issue and to explain to his Jewish co-religionists that such (“Old Testament”) scriptures are to be understood allegorically.

Now back to the question.  What does the statement mean?  A Google search shows that there are people at present discussing whether this verse means what it might, to the vulgar, or at least the literalist and materialist, exactly suggest.  I won’t spell it out because, beyond a certain point, I am not interested in approaching blasphemy.  On the other hand, and in marked contrast, there are the rather profound explanations that “the Rabbis” give this verse and these can be read, for example, in the Stone Edition of the (artscroll) Tanakh.  I, personally, go with these explanations, or insights, for the most part.  And the commentators, largely following Maimonides’ lead, I would think, tend toward allegory.

That said, I do wish, at times, that non-Muslims, such as (I presume) the author of the opening table, would read the Quran as, for lack of a better word, forgivingly, or at least openly, as they do their own books.  But it wouldn’t give us as much to talk and argue about in Interfaith.

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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 16 May 2008 at 1:01pm
Thank you Servetus for the response....
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Quote believer Replybullet Posted: 17 May 2008 at 6:06pm
Why not discuss GOD's name, I find the name interesting.
 
 
"Many theologians explain that I am that I am is better translated I be that I be. The ancient Hebrew language does not have a past, present, or future tense. Instead, it has an imperfective aspect and perfective aspect as indicators of time, with no actual determined time."
 
 
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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