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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: YHWH v. Allah Post Reply Post New Topic
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Servetus
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Quote Servetus Replybullet Posted: 22 April 2008 at 10:10pm

Doo-bop:

“Servetus - are you on the fizzy drinks again? tut tutLOL"

 

Yes.  And, of course I say this as your at times long-suffering friend and designated driver, your posts might be better able to pass the breathalyzer if, instead of tut tutting, you would join me by switching to the best, frothiest American brew on tap:

 

http://p1.hotornot.com/bl/brands/GSA/TBNDWKAFJEUFFRHLTWYH.jpg

 

Doo-bop:

“---Actually, I did not understand why that particular question arose in your mind.  I don't know why it should be said that Ishmael and Muhammad should have known the name Yahweh.”

 

Do you think it should be said that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob knew that name?  

 

          Doo-bop:

"Re Isaiah 45:7 (Amos 3:6 is another one), the Hebrew word (I am told) is rah, meaning evil, but not necessarily moral evil, or sin …"

 

It sounds as though, with a few caveats thrown in, you agree with King James and his translators that the God of the Bible does create evil after all.  Let us now revisit the author's (of the opening table) claim:

 

“Evil is not from YHWH, but wilful rebellion against YHWH. YHWH is the author of good, not evil. (Deuteronomy 32:4; Psalm 92:15; 1 John 1:5)”

 

“Allah [in contrast] is the author of both good and evil. (Q91:5–9) [sic]”

 

Moving right along …

The author of the table wrote:  YHWH loves sinners and reaches out to his enemies in love. (Exodus 34:5–7; 1 John 4:19)”

Vs.

“[The Israelite Judge] Ehud then approached [the king of Moab]  … and said, "I have a message from God for you." … Ehud … drew [his] sword … and plunged it into the king's belly. Even the handle sank in after the blade, which came out his back. Ehud did not pull the sword out, and the fat closed in over it. (Judges 3:20-23)”

Doo-bop:

            “… God has his cut-off point, and has made that abundantly clear in the Bible.”

 

Sorry.  Was that pun intended?  Maybe the 70’s band with the suggestively Biblical name, Nazareth, had the king of Moab in mind when they sang their hit song “Love Hurts.”

 

Shasta’sAunt:  “Third, I believe Servetus posted his Biblical reference above in direct response to God loves sinners, Allah hates sinners.”

 

Spot on.  That is correct.  Thank you for being a careful reader.

 

Shasta’sAunt:  “I am assuming by your [Doo-bop’s] response that being run through with a sword is a declaration of love.” 

 

Let's face it.  At least in my case, Cupid, with his slings and arrows, has at times gotten overly zealous.  {Think winkey face.}

 

Israfil wrote “ … to comment on the Islamic perspective to metamorph God into a particular thing would make God temporal or to inaccurately state that this or that particular object is God. God cannot be objectified or compounded into one substance. Although God is considered to be "everywhere" this is to substantiate the claim that God is omnipresent. We must be careful to not make God to be a particular less we face defining God in a pantheistic fashion.”

 

Thanks for the invitation and good point from your side.  Maimonides, the great Jewish Talmudist, saw fit to explain as allegorical some of the grosser anthropomorphisms of the Torah, and this, as I recall and according to Jacob Minken, after he had encountered the systematized ahadith and Quran, wherein he found comparatively few.

 

Anyway, doesn’t it say somewhere in the Quran that God is closer to us than our jugular vein?  Isn’t that close enough for the author of the table?

 

Serv



Edited by Servetus - 23 April 2008 at 6:31pm
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Quote Doo-bop Replybullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 4:19am
So......does Allah love sinners, or not?
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 6:24pm
Originally posted by Doo-bop

So......does Allah love sinners, or not?
 
Hi Doo-bop,
If it was not for the'love' of sinners, God would not have sent his guidence since Adam to Mohammed (pbut). It is through His Love and Mercy that sinners like me and you can benefit from that Love of Him.  Now it is upto us if we love Him back and answer His call, or reject that LOVE to our eternal loss. He is also offering the BONUS of forgiveness!
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 23 April 2008 at 6:27pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 7:29pm
Doo-Bop said:
So......does Allah love sinners, or not?
 
This "reeks" of comparitive Christian theology.
 
"Love" is a subjective terminology to denote emotion, something Allah has none, less we objectify God, the Artisan of this vast universe to be a being that is comprised of biological emotion. consequently, because we all believe in the Abrahamic faith, we believe in a personal deity that actually "cares" for minute, star-dust particles called humans. Doo-bop in order to even get a sense of what love is you need to stop using your compare and contrast anecdotal knowledge of "love."
 
If I were to tell you no, God does not loe sinners you are ready for a rebuttal which consist of arguments stemming from "see, you don't believe in the same god as I do because my god loves sinners." Again, love is quite subjective and relative. Even if your gud loves sinners then his love is conditional thus rendering his quality temporal, thus meaning that your gud has a limit to how much he loves me. Meaning, God loves me so long as I do X,Y, and Z.
 
Doo-bop since you have made this thread not in the best interest of dialogue but in the interest of comparing gods I'd like to talk about how limited your god is and illogical. First, if youur gud is all-loving why destroy a city simply because people expressed homosexuality? Even if they were the worse of the worse what about today? where child pornography runs rampant and child grow up in sexually abused homes (See current LDS controversy).
 
Actually we can see a positivist approach here and see that your gud loves sinners by the fact that he allows janjaweed to pillage and rape women and take children and sell them to slavery in Africa. Moving back in time in the 1600's off the shores of West Virginia your gud loved the world so much that he gave his only son named Yeshua, who died on the cross only to fail when later in the Americas your pastors, priests and worshippers under the banner of Christianity enslaved, mutilated, raped and tortured innocent human beings all for the sake of Capitalism and Religion.
 
Your gud loves the world so much that he is willing to allow the suffering of over 100 million people living with STD (HIV/AIDS) hunger problems and other biological issues. Oh but I'm sure that once the disease eats away the body their soul will endure in paradise right? They just have to live through the pain and agony of their situation. What about crime? Your gud loves sinners so much that he allows the wealthy 10% to rape the other 90% So that the established class system (or caste) remains? Oh but I'm sure there is gold awaiting in paradise.......
 
You see my friend love is relative.
 
God does not love like we love nor should we make any comparisons. If you must make some similarity then we must at least attribute God's love for us with him equipping us with life and the ability to thrive. Not to be graphic in our sexual relations God has given us endorphins to reward us in sexual pleasure after climax. God has given us a brain that grows to a limited capacity which stores endless knowledge that we may thrive socially. If this is love or at least partial then all of us, not just sinners have it.
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Quote believer Replybullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 8:10pm
We are made in the image of GOD so our love must be similar.
 
I think GOD would have told Mohammad - I am YHWH, especially since they were worshipping all the idols and the main one was Allah.
 
What is the arabic equivalent of YHWH.  " I am that I am" or I am?
 
Israfil - your argument can be turned right around and said- Allah is so merciful why does He allow these things to happen?
 
Do Muslims believe that satan/devil  is active in causing problems?
 
EVIL/satan/ devil and the choices of man is at the root of all, governments stealing food sent to the poor and hungry and selling it, deploriable sexual practices, etc. 
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 24 April 2008 at 8:20am
Originally posted by believer

We are made in the image of GOD so our love must be similar.
 
I think GOD would have told Mohammad - I am YHWH, especially since they were worshipping all the idols and the main one was Allah.
 
What is the arabic equivalent of YHWH.  " I am that I am" or I am?
 
Israfil - your argument can be turned right around and said- Allah is so merciful why does He allow these things to happen?
 
Do Muslims believe that satan/devil  is active in causing problems?
 
EVIL/satan/ devil and the choices of man is at the root of all, governments stealing food sent to the poor and hungry and selling it, deploriable sexual practices, etc. 
 
"I am that I am" is actually no name at all. Even "I am who I am" is also no name at all.
 
To put it simply, Moses wanted a name and God gave him none.
 
On a lighter note, if you insist, I can cook up the Arabic equivalent right now. WHWH, tetragrammated for WAHUWAH, which simply means He is the One.
 
Removing both the vowels A and the vowel U, bingo! I get WHWH.
 
Yes, Satan is bad. 
 
BMZ


Edited by BMZ - 24 April 2008 at 8:21am
Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 24 April 2008 at 11:12am
I think GOD would have told Mohammad - I am YHWH, especially since they were worshipping all the idols and the main one was Allah.
 
This is a ridiculous argument on God's names. So God creates over billions of people in the world and he only goes by one name? Does your gud not know there are many languages in the universe? Also, where do you get the idea that Allah is an idol when you have many proofs not only in our theological doctrines but in secular doctrines as well.
 
Allah is the fusion between Al-Illah which means "THE GOD"
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 24 April 2008 at 1:43pm
Hi beleiver,
 you ask, "Do Muslims believe that satan/devil  is active in causing problems?"
Yes, we do believe that.
We believe that satan is busy in decieving and causing negative ideas and activity since Adam (pbuh).  We, Muslims believe that satan was responsible for Adams disobidience and sin, and not Eve. Adam asked for God's forgiveness and through the act of God's Mercy, Love and Forgiveness, Adam was forgiven.
 
I once read Rev. Billy Graham say in his weekly newspaper column, I cannot remember word to word but here is what I understood of it.
He said, and correct me if that's not the Christian believe,: that somehow things got out of control of God and Satan became more powerfull. But one day God will defeat satan!!
In Islam we believe that nothing is out of reach of God, and nothing can over power God, including Satan, who is created by God.
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 24 April 2008 at 1:45pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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