IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Ishmael and Isaac

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believer

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Posted: 29 April 2008 at 4:39am

Sad the remnant that does not accept Jesus. While there is life there is hope that they will someday.

John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

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honeto

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Posted: 29 April 2008 at 3:25pm

Originally posted by believer

Sad the remnant that does not accept Jesus. While there is life there is hope that they will someday.

beleiver,

there were those who rejected Jesus, as the christ and disbelieved, they mocked him and called him illegal child (true beleivers once, but rejected God's prophet Jesus, we now know them as Jews).

The followeres fo Jesus turned their prophet into God.

Then God sent Mohammed (pbuh) with the word of God to guide the misguided, and those who rejected him as the prophet and fall into disbelief are known as Chrsitians.

Hasan

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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robin

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Posted: 19 May 2008 at 7:15am

Originally posted by Sign*Reader

believer
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What is the point you are trying to make before some body gives you piece of his her mind in a nasty way!
You copied and pasted a passage from OT that is called spamming!
If you read between the lines what you are saying that God of Jews and Christian is a racist against the Egyptians!
I have my theory about this but you need to be explicit about the thread first!

His only son by a fellow worshiper of his God Jehovah and in the falimy line of true worshipers, whereas hagar was not, thus his only one who would have his inheratance and family line to Jesus Christ the Messiah from God's viewpoint which is above human views etc.!

Genesis 17:18-21

“After that Abraham said to the [true] God: “O that Ishmael might live before you!” ¹⁹ To this God said: “Sarah your wife is indeed bearing you a son, and you must call his name Isaac. And I will establish my covenant with him for a covenant to time indefinite to his seed after him. ²⁰ But as regards Ishmael I have heard you. Look! I will bless him and will make him fruitful and will multiply him very, very much. He will certainly produce twelve chieftains, and I will make him become a great nation. ²¹ However, my covenant I shall establish with Isaac, . . .”

Edited by robin - 19 May 2008 at 7:17am

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honeto

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Posted: 21 May 2008 at 3:54pm

Robin,

Ishmael was the first son of Abraham, and if any time someone will refer to as the only son of Abraham would mean Ishmael because after the birth of Isaac, none of his sons can be called his only son. Its a technical matter not of understanding. If one has fathered two children, he will always be their father and they his children regardless if one is deaf, blind, a fire worshipper, pagan, or from his own belief.

Hasan

Edited by honeto - 21 May 2008 at 3:55pm

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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robin

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Posted: 22 May 2008 at 7:25am

Originally posted by honeto

Robin,

Hasan

Yes but, Paul referred to Isaac as Abraham’s "only-begotten son" (Heb 11:17), even though Abraham also fathered Ishmael by Hagar as well as several sons by Keturah. (Ge 16:15; 25:1, 2; 1Ch 1:28, 32) God’s covenant, however, was established only through Isaac, Abraham’s only son by God’s promise, as well as the only son of Sarah. (Ge 17:16-19) Furthermore, at the time Abraham offered up Isaac, he was the only son in his father’s household. No sons had yet been born to Keturah, and Ishmael had been gone for some 20 years—no doubt was married and head of his own household.—Ge 22:2.

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honeto

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Posted: 22 May 2008 at 8:48am

Originally posted by robin

Originally posted by honeto

Robin,

Hasan

Robin,

I guess you see it that way, I don't. I see it very clear from the same quotes that, Ishmael was the first son of Abraham, regardless of even going to the moon, the father and son, daughtrer mother relationship never ends. Even though Hagar and Abraham were worshipping same God and have same belief, even if one marries out of their religion and have kids, those kids are still theirs and they their parents. And even that was not the case with Abraham and Hagar.

For me its ridiculous to assume that just by moving to a different area or state suddenly your son is not your son anymore! and that's what you insist.

But because it point out to a inconsistancy in the Bible, you are willing to erase the realationship of the first born son of Abraham to nothing?

I am sorry, you may do so, I cannot. Its too obvious and clear for me, and I cannot hide a fact so clearly visible.

Hasan

Edited by honeto - 22 May 2008 at 8:49am

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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robin

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Posted: 22 May 2008 at 2:56pm

Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by robin

Originally posted by honeto

Robin,

Hasan

Robin,

For me its ridiculous to assume that just by moving to a different area or state suddenly your son is not your son anymore! and that's what you insist.

But because it point out to a inconsistancy in the Bible, you are willing to erase the realationship of the first born son of Abraham to nothing?

I am sorry, you may do so, I cannot. Its too obvious and clear for me, and I cannot hide a fact so clearly visible.

Hasan

It is God's view that matter hear, he is Abrahams son but not by God will or way, that can only be view his wife.

Ishamel was blessed but not with the promises of Abraham, that is only for Isaac!

Edited by robin - 22 May 2008 at 2:58pm

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honeto

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Posted: 22 May 2008 at 5:17pm

It is just me who is lost what Robin is saying here, or someone get it?

Robin,

1- You said: "he is Abrahams son but not by God will or way"Are you saying Abraham has Ishmael without the will of God?

2- I don't know what you mean with this: "can only be view his wife."

3- Then you also say " Ishamel was blessed but not with the promises of Abraham",

Can you please clear those three so we can proceed.

Hasan

Edited by honeto - 22 May 2008 at 5:18pm

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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Topic: Ishmael and Isaac( Topic Closed)
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Author	Message
believer Guest Group Joined: 08 January 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1397	Posted: 29 April 2008 at 4:39am
	Sad the remnant that does not accept Jesus. While there is life there is hope that they will someday.
	John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
	IP Logged

honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 29 April 2008 at 3:25pm
	*Originally posted by believer* Sad the remnant that does not accept Jesus. While there is life there is hope that they will someday. beleiver, there were those who rejected Jesus, as the christ and disbelieved, they mocked him and called him illegal child (true beleivers once, but rejected God's prophet Jesus, we now know them as Jews). The followeres fo Jesus turned their prophet into God. Then God sent Mohammed (pbuh) with the word of God to guide the misguided, and those who rejected him as the prophet and fall into disbelief are known as Chrsitians. Hasan
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
	IP Logged

robin Senior Member Joined: 17 May 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 595	Posted: 19 May 2008 at 7:15am
	**Originally posted by SignReader* believer Senior Member What is the point you are trying to make before some body gives you piece of his her mind in a nasty way! You copied and pasted a passage from OT that is called spamming! If you read between the lines what you are saying that God of Jews and Christian is a racist against the Egyptians! I have my theory about this but you need to be explicit about the thread first! His only son by a fellow worshiper of his God Jehovah and in the falimy line of true worshipers, whereas hagar was not, thus his only one who would have his inheratance and family line to Jesus Christ the Messiah from God's viewpoint which is above human views etc.! Genesis 17:18-21 “After that Abraham said to the [true] God: “O that Ishmael might live before you!” ¹⁹ To this God said: “Sarah your wife is indeed bearing you a son, and you must call his name Isaac. And I will establish my covenant with him for a covenant to time indefinite to his seed after him. ²⁰ But as regards Ishmael I have heard you. Look! I will bless him and will make him fruitful and will multiply him very, very much. He will certainly produce twelve chieftains, and I will make him become a great nation. ²¹ However, my covenant I shall establish with Isaac**, . . .” Edited by robin - 19 May 2008 at 7:17am
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honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 21 May 2008 at 3:54pm
	Robin, Ishmael was the first son of Abraham, and if any time someone will refer to as the only son of Abraham would mean Ishmael because after the birth of Isaac, none of his sons can be called his only son. Its a technical matter not of understanding. If one has fathered two children, he will always be their father and they his children regardless if one is deaf, blind, a fire worshipper, pagan, or from his own belief. Hasan Edited by honeto - 21 May 2008 at 3:55pm
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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robin Senior Member Joined: 17 May 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 595	Posted: 22 May 2008 at 7:25am
	*Originally posted by honeto* Robin, Ishmael was the first son of Abraham, and if any time someone will refer to as the only son of Abraham would mean Ishmael because after the birth of Isaac, none of his sons can be called his only son. Its a technical matter not of understanding. If one has fathered two children, he will always be their father and they his children regardless if one is deaf, blind, a fire worshipper, pagan, or from his own belief. Hasan Yes but, Paul referred to Isaac as Abraham’s "only-begotten son" (Heb 11:17), even though Abraham also fathered Ishmael by Hagar as well as several sons by Keturah. (Ge 16:15; 25:1, 2; 1Ch 1:28, 32) God’s covenant, however, was established only through Isaac, Abraham’s only son by God’s promise, as well as the only son of Sarah. (Ge 17:16-19) Furthermore, at the time Abraham offered up Isaac, he was the only son in his father’s household. No sons had yet been born to Keturah, and Ishmael had been gone for some 20 years—no doubt was married and head of his own household.—Ge 22:2.
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honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 22 May 2008 at 8:48am
	*Originally posted by robin* *Originally posted by honeto* Robin, Ishmael was the first son of Abraham, and if any time someone will refer to as the only son of Abraham would mean Ishmael because after the birth of Isaac, none of his sons can be called his only son. Its a technical matter not of understanding. If one has fathered two children, he will always be their father and they his children regardless if one is deaf, blind, a fire worshipper, pagan, or from his own belief. Hasan Yes but, Paul referred to Isaac as Abraham’s "only-begotten son" (Heb 11:17), even though Abraham also fathered Ishmael by Hagar as well as several sons by Keturah. (Ge 16:15; 25:1, 2; 1Ch 1:28, 32) God’s covenant, however, was established only through Isaac, Abraham’s only son by God’s promise, as well as the only son of Sarah. (Ge 17:16-19) Furthermore, at the time Abraham offered up Isaac, he was the only son in his father’s household. No sons had yet been born to Keturah, and Ishmael had been gone for some 20 years—no doubt was married and head of his own household.—Ge 22:2. Robin, I guess you see it that way, I don't. I see it very clear from the same quotes that, Ishmael was the first son of Abraham, regardless of even going to the moon, the father and son, daughtrer mother relationship never ends. Even though Hagar and Abraham were worshipping same God and have same belief, even if one marries out of their religion and have kids, those kids are still theirs and they their parents. And even that was not the case with Abraham and Hagar. For me its ridiculous to assume that just by moving to a different area or state suddenly your son is not your son anymore! and that's what you insist. But because it point out to a inconsistancy in the Bible, you are willing to erase the realationship of the first born son of Abraham to nothing? I am sorry, you may do so, I cannot. Its too obvious and clear for me, and I cannot hide a fact so clearly visible. Hasan Edited by honeto - 22 May 2008 at 8:49am
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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robin Senior Member Joined: 17 May 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 595	Posted: 22 May 2008 at 2:56pm
	*Originally posted by honeto* *Originally posted by robin* *Originally posted by honeto* Robin, Ishmael was the first son of Abraham, and if any time someone will refer to as the only son of Abraham would mean Ishmael because after the birth of Isaac, none of his sons can be called his only son. Its a technical matter not of understanding. If one has fathered two children, he will always be their father and they his children regardless if one is deaf, blind, a fire worshipper, pagan, or from his own belief. Hasan Yes but, Paul referred to Isaac as Abraham’s "only-begotten son" (Heb 11:17), even though Abraham also fathered Ishmael by Hagar as well as several sons by Keturah. (Ge 16:15; 25:1, 2; 1Ch 1:28, 32) God’s covenant, however, was established only through Isaac, Abraham’s only son by God’s promise, as well as the only son of Sarah. (Ge 17:16-19) Furthermore, at the time Abraham offered up Isaac, he was the only son in his father’s household. No sons had yet been born to Keturah, and Ishmael had been gone for some 20 years—no doubt was married and head of his own household.—Ge 22:2. Robin, I guess you see it that way, I don't. I see it very clear from the same quotes that, Ishmael was the first son of Abraham, regardless of even going to the moon, the father and son, daughtrer mother relationship never ends. Even though Hagar and Abraham were worshipping same God and have same belief, even if one marries out of their religion and have kids, those kids are still theirs and they their parents. And even that was not the case with Abraham and Hagar. For me its ridiculous to assume that just by moving to a different area or state suddenly your son is not your son anymore! and that's what you insist. But because it point out to a inconsistancy in the Bible, you are willing to erase the realationship of the first born son of Abraham to nothing? I am sorry, you may do so, I cannot. Its too obvious and clear for me, and I cannot hide a fact so clearly visible. Hasan It is God's view that matter hear, he is Abrahams son but not by God will or way, that can only be view his wife. Ishamel was blessed but not with the promises of Abraham, that is only for Isaac! Edited by robin - 22 May 2008 at 2:58pm
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honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 22 May 2008 at 5:17pm
	It is just me who is lost what Robin is saying here, or someone get it? Robin, 1- You said: "he is Abrahams son but not by God will or way"Are you saying Abraham has Ishmael without the will of God? 2- I don't know what you mean with this: "can only be view his wife." 3- Then you also say " Ishamel was blessed but not with the promises of Abraham", Can you please clear those three so we can proceed. Hasan Edited by honeto - 22 May 2008 at 5:18pm
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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