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|Topic: Ishmael and Isaac( Topic Closed)|
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Joined: 20 March 2008
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|Posted: 10 May 2010 at 6:05pm|
Originally posted by Shibboleth
Nice try _ali but explain this for the world to see. There are many great nations but the COVENANT was only with Isaac as you can see. Threw Sarah not Hagar!
(Genesis 17:19- 21)
19فَقَالَ اللهُ: «بَلْ سَارَةُ امْرَأَتُكَ تَلِدُ لَكَ ابْنًا وَتَدْعُو اسْمَهُ إِسْحَاقَ. وَأُقِيمُ عَهْدِي مَعَهُ عَهْدًا أَبَدِيًّا لِنَسْلِهِ مِنْ بَعْدِهِ.19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
20 وَأَمَّا إِسْمَاعِيلُ فَقَدْ سَمِعْتُ لَكَ فِيهِ. هَا أَنَا أُبَارِكُهُ وَأُثْمِرُهُ وَأُكَثِّرُهُ كَثِيرًا جِدًّا. اِثْنَيْ عَشَرَ رَئِيسًا يَلِدُ، وَأَجْعَلُهُ أُمَّةً كَبِيرَةً.20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
21 وَلكِنْ عَهْدِي أُقِيمُهُ مَعَ إِسْحَاقَ الَّذِي تَلِدُهُ لَكَ سَارَةُ فِي هذَا الْوَقْتِ فِي السَّنَةِ الآتِيَةِ».21 BUT my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.
that's where we see another of the Biblical inconsistency. I am copying my own post from this subject that will explain to you why I believe so. Please read and tell me what you think. I feel bad that this thread will be closed and all this useful info and quotes will be lost, but until that happens I hope to show you how all of this appears when facts are taken as such.
here is the bottom line of Abraham and his two sons Ishmael and Isaac, who was first and who really was his only son at the time he offered to God's call. You be the judge.
According to the Bible here is the order:
Those who think that Hagar was not Abraham's wife, here is the answer:
Genesis 16:3Then Sarai, Abram’s wife, took Hagar her maid, the Egyptian, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan.
That clearly shows that Hagar was Abraham's wife. Now we need to see who was born first and who bore it regrdless where on earth they lived.
Genesis 16:16 Abraham was eighty-six years old when Hagar bore Ishmael to Abraham.
Genesis 21:5 Now Abraham was one hundred years old when his son Isaac was born to him.
Let us stop here and do some simple maths, 100-86=14 that is the age of Ishmael when Isaac was born.
Genesis 22:5 Abraham said to his young (his helpers that went with him) men, “Stay here with the donkey; the lad and I will go yonder and worship, and we will come back to you.”
Now remember here the word "lad" for Abraham's son, who was a young boy then.
So far we see that Ishmael is the first son, and if any say to him take your only son, it will 100% mean Ishmael only before the birth of Isaac.
Now something is wrong with this verse:
Genesis 22:2 Then He (God)said, “Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you.”
In my opinion someone did not fix it right. Because by the time Abraham had Isaac, he already had Ishmael. So Isaac cannot be refered as "the only son"
so, in my opinion we have to clear this up before going anywhere.
Edited by honeto - 10 May 2010 at 6:13pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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