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Moses
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bullet Posted: 09 October 2009 at 10:21am
sorry , I will not defend of my opinion, if you have somehting about Bible or Quran , I will join to you for more study about words of God.
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bullet Posted: 19 October 2009 at 1:29pm

BLESSINGS OF ISHMAEL AND ISAAC ARE TRUE, BUT GOD’S COVVENANT IS ONLY WITH ISAAC AND HIS SEED!

Yes, they both will be blessed. However, God clearly revealed through which of these lines of descent the promised Seed would come, bringing blessings to all mankind.

(Genesis 17:19- 21)

19فَقَالَ اللهُ: «بَلْ سَارَةُ امْرَأَتُكَ تَلِدُ لَكَ ابْنًا وَتَدْعُو اسْمَهُ إِسْحَاقَ. وَأُقِيمُ عَهْدِي مَعَهُ عَهْدًا أَبَدِيًّا لِنَسْلِهِ مِنْ بَعْدِهِ.19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

20 وَأَمَّا إِسْمَاعِيلُ فَقَدْ سَمِعْتُ لَكَ فِيهِ. هَا أَنَا أُبَارِكُهُ وَأُثْمِرُهُ وَأُكَثِّرُهُ كَثِيرًا جِدًّا. اِثْنَيْ عَشَرَ رَئِيسًا يَلِدُ، وَأَجْعَلُهُ أُمَّةً كَبِيرَةً.20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

21 وَلكِنْ عَهْدِي أُقِيمُهُ مَعَ إِسْحَاقَ الَّذِي تَلِدُهُ لَكَ سَارَةُ فِي هذَا الْوَقْتِ فِي السَّنَةِ الآتِيَةِ».21 BUT my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

Ishmael was a great nation, that’s it! No covenant, no prophets or anything else. Ishmael was NOT specifically blessed as indicated by Semar, male member. He added that to make it fit like everything else he wrote on his post which refers mostly to Jesus Christ or the Holy spirit.

One of the nations that sprang from Abraham was the nation of Israel, comprising the 12 tribes who descended from the sons of Jacob, Abraham’s grandson. It was in this nation that the promised “seed” would finally appear.—Genesis 26:1, 4; 28:10, 13-15, JP.

Prophecy later revealed that a special seed, or ruler, would come specifically through the tribe of Judah.

Genesis 49:10:

لاَ يَزُولُ قَضِيبٌ مِنْ يَهُوذَا وَمُشْتَرِعٌ مِنْ بَيْنِ رِجْلَيْهِ حَتَّى يَأْتِيَ شِيلُونُ وَلَهُ يَكُونُ خُضُوعُ شُعُوبٍ.

10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

 

The first ruler from the line of Judah, King David, was promised by God: “Your house and . . . your throne shall be established forever.” (2 Samuel 7:16) God further promised: “I will set up thy seed after thee, . . . and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build Me a house, and I will establish his throne for ever.” (1 Chronicles 17:11, 12, JP) David’s son and successor, King Solomon, did indeed build Jehovah’s house, or temple, but he obviously did not rule forever. However, one of David’s seed would be the same “Shiloh,” or Messiah, prophesied at Genesis 49:10. (JP) Above

 

Jesus said he would send his apostles the Comforter, Helper or Paraclete, the “spirit of the truth.” (A spirit not a person) Since the Greek word par·a´cle·tos is in the masculine gender, it was logical for Jesus also to use personal pronouns when referring to the holy spirit in this capacity or activity. This promised Helper came at Pentecost.—John 15:26, NW

Paraclete (Sprit of Truth) or Pariclytos (Ahmad)


http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=15549


   «وَمَتَى جَاءَ الْمُعَزِّي الَّذِي سَأُرْسِلُهُ أَنَا إِلَيْكُمْ مِنَ الآبِ، رُوحُ الْحَقِّ، الَّذِي مِنْ عِنْدِ الآبِ يَنْبَثِقُ، فَهُوَ يَشْهَدُ لِي

26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Romans 3:4

حَاشَا! بَلْ لِيَكُنِ اللهُ صَادِقًا وَكُلُّ إِنْسَانٍ كَاذِبًا. كَمَا هُوَ مَكْتُوبٌ: «لِكَيْ تَتَبَرَّرَ فِي كَلاَمِكَ، وَتَغْلِبَ مَتَى حُوكِمْتَ».

4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written,

That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

 



Edited by Shibboleth - 19 October 2009 at 1:43pm
“If you doubt what we have revealed to you, ask those who have read the Scriptures before you.” (Sura 10, Yunis [Jonah], verse 94) & (Surah Al ‘Imran: 84-85)
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wisdomseeker
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bullet Posted: 22 October 2009 at 3:00am
Believer,
Why don't you answer to the reply by brother Hasan(Honeto), you are ignoring his clarifications, or is it that you dont want to be clarified at all?
please do not be offended, we are here to compare and learn, so such pre-conceived notions can turn useless. why not have a clear mind and start everything from the beggining?

regards,
wisdomseeker.
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bullet Posted: 22 October 2009 at 3:05am
i am referring to hasan's reply on the very first page.
may allah guide you.
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honeto
 
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bullet Posted: 30 November 2009 at 8:41pm
Brother,
believer does not seem to be on a truth finding mission, rather he seems to be on other missions, only Allah knows as 25 pages past, and he is unable to address my post you mentioned.
May Allah guide to misguided.
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Mansoor_ali
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bullet Posted: 01 May 2010 at 5:55am

 Taken from http://answering-christianity.com/ishmael_great_nation.htm

 

The "great nation" of Ishmael and its definition in the Bible:

The sections of this article are:

1-  The "great nation" of Ishmael and its definition in the Bible.
2-  The Arabs, whom Islam came from, are the descendents of Ishmael, and they are the "great nation" along with all Muslims.
3-  GOD's Covenant was taken from the Jews and given to the Muslims in the Bible.


The Biblical verses of Genesis 17:20 and Deuteronomy 4:7-8 were sent to me by brother albustami@usa.net; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him.

Let us look at the verses from the NIV Bible:

"And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation(From the NIV Bible, Genesis 17:20)"

"What other nation is so great as to have their gods near them the way the LORD our God is near us whenever we pray to him? And what other nation is so great as to have such righteous decrees and laws as this body of laws I am setting before you today?  (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 4:7-8)"

In the above verses, we first see a clear promise from GOD Almighty that He will make a "great nation" from Ishmael's descendents.  We then see the definition of "great nation" as being a nation that directly receives a Law from GOD Almighty.

This is all great and agreeing with Islam.  Let us look at what Allah Almighty said about the Jewish Law in the Noble Quran:

"It was We who revealed the law (to Moses): therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed (as in Islam) to God's will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law: for to them was entrusted the protection of God's book, and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear me, and sell not my signs for a miserable price.  If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (no better than) Unbelievers.  (The Noble Quran, 5:44)"


The Law of the Muslims is the Noble Quran:

"Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than God; that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows: that is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, God is indeed Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.  (The Noble Quran, 5:3)"

 

The Arabs, whom Islam came from, are the descendents of Ishmael, and they are the "great nation" along with all Muslims:

No knowledgeable Muslim would deny Judaism.  Judaism was the "light" of the Jews according to the Noble Quran as I showed above.  The verses of Deuteronomy 4:7-8, while they are talking about the Jews, clearly say that if the people have the "law of the LORD", then they are a "great nation".

Since GOD Almighty promised that He was going to make the Arabs a "great nation", since they are from Ishmael, then this means that the Noble Quran is indeed GOD Almighty's Law to the Arabs, and to ALL Muslims as well that embraced Islam.  The people of Ishmael are clearly the Arabs (through biological descent), and all Muslims through theological descent.  No knowledgeable non-Muslim would dispute that.

Therefore, since "great nation" proves that the people have the Law of GOD Almighty, and since the Arabs were promised to become a "great nation" in the Old Testament, then this clearly and irrefutably makes the Noble Quran as the Law of the LORD in the Old Testament since it came from the Arabs, the "great nation".

 

GOD's Covenant was taken from the Jews and given to the Muslims in the Bible:

All of the Biblical verses from both the Old and New Testaments, and Jesus' own words in the Bible that clearly prove this are discussed in great details at:

Jesus told the Jews that GOD Almighty will take His Kingdom from the Jews and give it to the Muslims.

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bullet Posted: 07 May 2010 at 7:30pm
Nice try _ali Big%20smile but explain this for the world to see. There are many great nations but the COVENANT was only with Isaac as you can see. Threw Sarah not Hagar!
 
(Genesis 17:19- 21)

19فَقَالَ اللهُ: «بَلْ سَارَةُ امْرَأَتُكَ تَلِدُ لَكَ ابْنًا وَتَدْعُو اسْمَهُ إِسْحَاقَ. وَأُقِيمُ عَهْدِي مَعَهُ عَهْدًا أَبَدِيًّا لِنَسْلِهِ مِنْ بَعْدِهِ.19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

20 وَأَمَّا إِسْمَاعِيلُ فَقَدْ سَمِعْتُ لَكَ فِيهِ. هَا أَنَا أُبَارِكُهُ وَأُثْمِرُهُ وَأُكَثِّرُهُ كَثِيرًا جِدًّا. اِثْنَيْ عَشَرَ رَئِيسًا يَلِدُ، وَأَجْعَلُهُ أُمَّةً كَبِيرَةً.20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

21 وَلكِنْ عَهْدِي أُقِيمُهُ مَعَ إِسْحَاقَ الَّذِي تَلِدُهُ لَكَ سَارَةُ فِي هذَا الْوَقْتِ فِي السَّنَةِ الآتِيَةِ».21 BUT my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

“If you doubt what we have revealed to you, ask those who have read the Scriptures before you.” (Sura 10, Yunis [Jonah], verse 94) & (Surah Al ‘Imran: 84-85)
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bullet Posted: 07 May 2010 at 8:26pm
Please be aware that this thread will be closed in 48 hours. Thank you.
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