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believer
 
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bullet Topic: Ishmael and Isaac
    Posted: 02 April 2008 at 7:08pm

Genesis 21

The Birth of Isaac
 1 Now the LORD was gracious to Sarah as he had said, and the LORD did for Sarah what he had promised. 2 Sarah became pregnant and bore a son to Abraham in his old age, at the very time God had promised him. 3 Abraham gave the name Isaac to the son Sarah bore him. 4 When his son Isaac was eight days old, Abraham circumcised him, as God commanded him. 5 Abraham was a hundred years old when his son Isaac was born to him.

 6 Sarah said, "God has brought me laughter, and everyone who hears about this will laugh with me." 7 And she added, "Who would have said to Abraham that Sarah would nurse children? Yet I have borne him a son in his old age."

Hagar and Ishmael Sent Away
 8 The child grew and was weaned, and on the day Isaac was weaned Abraham held a great feast. 9 But Sarah saw that the son whom Hagar the Egyptian had borne to Abraham was mocking, 10 and she said to Abraham, "Get rid of that slave woman and her son, for that slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with my son Isaac."

 11 The matter distressed Abraham greatly because it concerned his son. 12 But God said to him, "Do not be so distressed about the boy and your maidservant. Listen to whatever Sarah tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned. 13 I will make the son of the maidservant into a nation also, because he is your offspring."

 14 Early the next morning Abraham took some food and a skin of water and gave them to Hagar. He set them on her shoulders and then sent her off with the boy. She went on her way and wandered in the desert of Beersheba.

 15 When the water in the skin was gone, she put the boy under one of the bushes. 16 Then she went off and sat down nearby, about a bowshot away, for she thought, "I cannot watch the boy die." And as she sat there nearby, she began to sob.

 17 God heard the boy crying, and the angel of God called to Hagar from heaven and said to her, "What is the matter, Hagar? Do not be afraid; God has heard the boy crying as he lies there. 18 Lift the boy up and take him by the hand, for I will make him into a great nation."

 19 Then God opened her eyes and she saw a well of water. So she went and filled the skin with water and gave the boy a drink.

 20 God was with the boy as he grew up. He lived in the desert and became an archer. 21 While he was living in the Desert of Paran, his mother got a wife for him from Egypt.

Genesis 22

Abraham Tested

 1 Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, "Abraham!"
      "Here I am," he replied.

 2 Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about."

 3 Early the next morning Abraham got up and saddled his donkey. He took with him two of his servants and his son Isaac. When he had cut enough wood for the burnt offering, he set out for the place God had told him about. 4 On the third day Abraham looked up and saw the place in the distance. 5 He said to his servants, "Stay here with the donkey while I and the boy go over there. We will worship and then we will come back to you."

 6 Abraham took the wood for the burnt offering and placed it on his son Isaac, and he himself carried the fire and the knife. As the two of them went on together, 7 Isaac spoke up and said to his father Abraham, "Father?"
      "Yes, my son?" Abraham replied.
      "The fire and wood are here," Isaac said, "but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?"

 8 Abraham answered, "God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son." And the two of them went on together.

 9 When they reached the place God had told him about, Abraham built an altar there and arranged the wood on it. He bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood. 10 Then he reached out his hand and took the knife to slay his son. 11 But the angel of the LORD called out to him from heaven, "Abraham! Abraham!"
      "Here I am," he replied.

 12 "Do not lay a hand on the boy," he said. "Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son."

 13 Abraham looked up and there in a thicket he saw a ram caught by its horns. He went over and took the ram and sacrificed it as a burnt offering instead of his son. 14 So Abraham called that place The LORD Will Provide. And to this day it is said, "On the mountain of the LORD it will be provided."

 15 The angel of the LORD called to Abraham from heaven a second time 16 and said, "I swear by myself, declares the LORD, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, 18 and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me."

John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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bullet Posted: 03 April 2008 at 10:40am

Believer, above post was moved from Prophets - Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses section.

Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13
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bullet Posted: 03 April 2008 at 3:18pm

And yet, Isaac was not Abrahim's only son.

And Sarah, whom God had favored by giving her Isaac, returned the favor by selfishly demanding that Hagar and Abraham's OTHER son be sent into the desert, presumably to die, because she did not want to share Isaac's inheritance.

 

“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt
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bullet Posted: 03 April 2008 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by believer

Genesis 21

The Birth of Isaac
 1 Now the LORD was gracious to Sarah as he had said, and the LORD did for Sarah what he had promised. 2 Sarah became pregnant and bore a son to Abraham in his old age, at the very time God had promised him. 3 Abraham gave the name Isaac to the son Sarah bore him. 4 When his son Isaac was eight days old, Abraham circumcised him, as God commanded him. 5 Abraham was a hundred years old when his son Isaac was born to him.

 6 Sarah said, "God has brought me laughter, and everyone who hears about this will laugh with me." 7 And she added, "Who would have said to Abraham that Sarah would nurse children? Yet I have borne him a son in his old age."

Hagar and Ishmael Sent Away
 8 The child grew and was weaned, and on the day Isaac was weaned Abraham held a great feast. 9 But Sarah saw that the son whom Hagar the Egyptian had borne to Abraham was mocking, 10 and she said to Abraham, "Get rid of that slave woman and her son, for that slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with my son Isaac."

 11 The matter distressed Abraham greatly because it concerned his son. 12 But God said to him, "Do not be so distressed about the boy and your maidservant. Listen to whatever Sarah tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned. 13 I will make the son of the maidservant into a nation also, because he is your offspring."

 14 Early the next morning Abraham took some food and a skin of water and gave them to Hagar. He set them on her shoulders and then sent her off with the boy. She went on her way and wandered in the desert of Beersheba.

 15 When the water in the skin was gone, she put the boy under one of the bushes. 16 Then she went off and sat down nearby, about a bowshot away, for she thought, "I cannot watch the boy die." And as she sat there nearby, she began to sob.

 17 God heard the boy crying, and the angel of God called to Hagar from heaven and said to her, "What is the matter, Hagar? Do not be afraid; God has heard the boy crying as he lies there. 18 Lift the boy up and take him by the hand, for I will make him into a great nation."

 19 Then God opened her eyes and she saw a well of water. So she went and filled the skin with water and gave the boy a drink.

 20 God was with the boy as he grew up. He lived in the desert and became an archer. 21 While he was living in the Desert of Paran, his mother got a wife for him from Egypt.

Genesis 22

Abraham Tested

 1 Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, "Abraham!"
      "Here I am," he replied.

 2 Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about."

 3 Early the next morning Abraham got up and saddled his donkey. He took with him two of his servants and his son Isaac. When he had cut enough wood for the burnt offering, he set out for the place God had told him about. 4 On the third day Abraham looked up and saw the place in the distance. 5 He said to his servants, "Stay here with the donkey while I and the boy go over there. We will worship and then we will come back to you."

 6 Abraham took the wood for the burnt offering and placed it on his son Isaac, and he himself carried the fire and the knife. As the two of them went on together, 7 Isaac spoke up and said to his father Abraham, "Father?"
      "Yes, my son?" Abraham replied.
      "The fire and wood are here," Isaac said, "but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?"

 8 Abraham answered, "God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son." And the two of them went on together.

 9 When they reached the place God had told him about, Abraham built an altar there and arranged the wood on it. He bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood. 10 Then he reached out his hand and took the knife to slay his son. 11 But the angel of the LORD called out to him from heaven, "Abraham! Abraham!"
      "Here I am," he replied.

 12 "Do not lay a hand on the boy," he said. "Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son."

 13 Abraham looked up and there in a thicket he saw a ram caught by its horns. He went over and took the ram and sacrificed it as a burnt offering instead of his son. 14 So Abraham called that place The LORD Will Provide. And to this day it is said, "On the mountain of the LORD it will be provided."

 15 The angel of the LORD called to Abraham from heaven a second time 16 and said, "I swear by myself, declares the LORD, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, 18 and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me."

Hi believer,

I don't see a question you pose rather a long post from my standards, could you please tell us what is your question, so we can aswer it.

Thakns,

Hasan

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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bullet Posted: 04 April 2008 at 5:41pm

Shasta' Aunt - violation of a heaven appointed institution causes sorrow and strife.  I do not condone her actions, any modern woman might act exactly the same way.

Genesis 21

11 The matter distressed Abraham greatly because it concerned his son. 12 But God said to him, "Do not be so distressed about the boy and your maidservant. Listen to whatever Sarah tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned. 13 I will make the son of the maidservant into a nation also, because he is your offspring."

honeto- I can understand how the descendants of Ishmael might feel "left out".  Why wasn't it Ishmaels GOD too?

Exodus 3

 13 Moses said to God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' Then what shall I tell them?"

 14 God said to Moses, "I am who I am . [a] This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.' "

 15 God also said to Moses, "Say to the Israelites, 'The LORD, [b] the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.' This is my name forever, the name by which I am to be remembered from generation to generation.

 16 "Go, assemble the elders of Israel and say to them, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob—appeared to me and said: I have watched over you and have seen what has been done to you in Egypt.

John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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bullet Posted: 04 April 2008 at 6:35pm
Originally posted by believer

Shasta' Aunt - violation of a heaven appointed institution causes sorrow and strife.  I do not condone her actions, any modern woman might act exactly the same way.

Genesis 21

11 The matter distressed Abraham greatly because it concerned his son. 12 But God said to him, "Do not be so distressed about the boy and your maidservant. Listen to whatever Sarah tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned. 13 I will make the son of the maidservant into a nation also, because he is your offspring."

honeto- I can understand how the descendants of Ishmael might feel "left out".  Why wasn't it Ishmaels GOD too?

Are you insinuating that the descendants of Ishmael created a religion because they felt left out, or that God is not the God of all mankind?

“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt
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bullet Posted: 04 April 2008 at 6:47pm

Hi,

here is the bottom line of Abraham and his two sons Ishmael and Isaac, who was first and who really was his only son at the time he offered to God's call. You be the judge.

According to the Bible here is the order:

Those who think that Hagar was not Abraham's wife, here is the answer:

Genesis 16:3Then Sarai, Abram’s wife, took Hagar her maid, the Egyptian, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan.

That clearly shows that Hagar was Abraham's wife. Now we need to see who was born first and who bore it regrdless where on earth they lived.

Genesis 16:16 Abraham was eighty-six years old when Hagar bore Ishmael to Abraham.

Genesis 21:5 Now Abraham was one hundred years old when his son Isaac was born to him.

Let us stop here and do some simple maths, 100-86=14 that is the age of Ishmael when Isaac was born.

Genesis 22:5 Abraham said to his young (his helpers that went with him) men, “Stay here with the donkey; the lad and I will go yonder and worship, and we will come back to you.”

Now remember here the word "lad" for Abraham's son, who was a young boy then.

So far we see that Ishmael is the first son, and if any say to him take your only son, it will 100% mean Ishmael only before the birth of Isaac.

Now something is wrong with this verse:

Genesis 22:2 Then He (God)said, “Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you.”

In my opinion someone did not fix it right. Because by the time Abraham had Isaac, he already had Ishmael. So Isaac cannot be refered as "the only son"

Hasan

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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bullet Posted: 04 April 2008 at 7:20pm
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What is the point you are trying to make before some body gives you piece of his her mind in a nasty way!
You copied and pasted a passage from OT that is called spamming!
If you read between the lines what you are saying that God of Jews and Christian is a racist against the Egyptians!
I have my theory about this but you need to be explicit about the thread first!
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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