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Interfaith Dialogue
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believer
 
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Quote believer Replybullet Posted: 06 April 2008 at 9:23am

I found another that says "one and only son".  That clarifies it even further.  Check yours again. 

Actually with sex taken out of the picture there is no difference it is still an infillinlling of the Holy Spirit.

up·on  

–preposition
3.

in or into complete or approximate contact with, as an attacker or an important or pressing occasion: The enemy was upon us and our soldiers had little time to escape. The Christmas holiday will soon be upon us and we have hardly begun to buy gifts. The time to take action is upon us.

in·to 

–preposition
1. to the inside of; in toward: He walked into the room. The train chugged into the station.

Should we start another thread on that?  

I have another question along the definition line.  What is meant by Holy Spirit in these verses.  Is it the angel Gabriel, or GOD breathed Spirit?  I have heard some Muslims say that the Holy Spirit with Gabriel.  Also do Muslims believe that GOD is a Spirit?

002.087
YUSUFALI: We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you a messenger with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride?- Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay!
PICKTHAL: And verily We gave unto Moses the Scripture and We caused a train of messengers to follow after him, and We gave unto Jesus, son of Mary, clear proofs (of Allah's sovereignty), and We supported him with the Holy spirit. Is it ever so, that, when there cometh unto you a messenger (from Allah) with that which ye yourselves desire not, ye grow arrogant, and some ye disbelieve and some ye slay?
SHAKIR: And most certainly We gave Musa the Book and We sent messengers after him one after another; and We gave Isa, the son of Marium, clear arguments and strengthened him with the holy spirit, What! whenever then a messenger came to you with that which your souls did not desire, you were insolent so you called some liars and some you slew.

002.253
YUSUFALI: Those messengers We endowed with gifts, some above others: To one of them Allah spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honour); to Jesus the son of Mary We gave clear (Signs), and strengthened him with the holy spirit. If Allah had so willed, succeeding generations would not have fought among each other, after clear (Signs) had come to them, but they (chose) to wrangle, some believing and others rejecting. If Allah had so willed, they would not have fought each other; but Allah Fulfilleth His plan.
PICKTHAL: Of those messengers, some of whom We have caused to excel others, and of whom there are some unto whom Allah spake, while some of them He exalted (above others) in degree; and We gave Jesus, son of Mary, clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty) and We supported him with the holy Spirit. And if Allah had so wiled it, those who followed after them would not have fought one with another after the clear proofs had come unto them. But they differed, some of them believing and some disbelieving. And if Allah had so willed it, they would not have fought one with another; but Allah doeth what He will.
SHAKIR: We have made some of these messengers to excel the others among them are they to whom Allah spoke, and some of them He exalted by (many degrees of) rank; and We gave clear miracles to Isa son of Marium, and strengthened him with the holy spirit. And if Allah had pleased, those after them would not have fought one with another after clear arguments had come to them, but they disagreed; so there were some of them who believed and others who denied; and if Allah had pleased they would not have fought one with another, but Allah brings about what He intends.

John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Quote Sign*Reader Replybullet Posted: 06 April 2008 at 2:14pm
The notion of being related to God is an old psychological disease of polytheism and redemption with a board game mentality like get out of jail pass written all over.
The old Trinitarianism that had been part of European psuedo religions of the old got co opted with Paul's new sale of the new son of god pitch .
This son of God is nothing new to Jesus you can see the Bible writers have played quite fast and loose with thsi without anybody telling the readers that these statement are Satanic and rejected by Allah outright.

SONS OF GOD: The Bible ascribes sons by the tons to God.

(a) 'Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the SON OF GOD." LUKE 3:38

(b) "That the SONS OF GOD saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took wives of all which they chose. ". . when the SONS OF GOD came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." GENESIS 6:2 and 4

(c) " . . Thus- saith the Lord, Israel is MY SON even my FIRSTBORN." EXODUS 4:22

(d) " . . and Ephraim is my FIRSTBORN," JEREMIAH 31:9

(e) " . . Thou (o David) ART MY SON; this day have I (God) BEGOTTEN thee. " PSALMS 2:7 ("FIRST BORN:" How can there be two "firstborns"?) ("BEGOTTEN" How can God beget David at the age of forty? "This day'?)

Discussing this subject with Christians is like  hitting a brick wall.
If men can clone animals these days what was such a big deal for Allah to create Esa(a) from Murrium(a) as a warning to Jews that it was end of His link to the Israelites and chance for forgivness. And also to give them a jolt to think that there was power looking over their bad behavior. As Esa(a) said he was sent to the house of Israel. I wonder what  did gentiles got to with him that became such a religion
Lastly if God could create Esa immaculately the he could also save him from the blood thirsty Jewish mob bent upon crucifying him for telling them the truth!
Cant you see even today the Christian Bush and Jewish neocon's lying campaign ti invade Iraq proves what Jesus would have gone through.

Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;


Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;


He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;


And there is none like unto Him.




Edited by Sign*Reader
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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Quote believer Replybullet Posted: 06 April 2008 at 2:23pm

Acts 9

Saul's Conversion
 1Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord's disciples. He went to the high priest 2and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem. 3As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?"

 5"Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked.

   "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied. 6"Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do."

 7The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. 8Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.

 10In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, "Ananias!"
      "Yes, Lord," he answered.

 11The Lord told him, "Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. 12In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight."

 13"Lord," Ananias answered, "I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your saints in Jerusalem. 14And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name."

 15But the Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel. 16I will show him how much he must suffer for my name."

 17Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit." 18Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul's eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, 19and after taking some food, he regained his strength.

Paul was hand picked by Jesus to preach to the gentiles.

John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Quote Sign*Reader Replybullet Posted: 06 April 2008 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by believer

Acts 9

Saul's Conversion
 1Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord's disciples. He went to the high priest 2and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem. 3As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?"

 5"Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked.

   "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied. 6"Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do."

 7The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. 8Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.

 10In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, "Ananias!"
      "Yes, Lord," he answered.

 11The Lord told him, "Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. 12In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight."

 13"Lord," Ananias answered, "I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your saints in Jerusalem. 14And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name."

 15But the Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel. 16I will show him how much he must suffer for my name."

 17Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit." 18Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul's eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, 19and after taking some food, he regained his strength.

Paul was hand picked by Jesus to preach to the gentiles.


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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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Quote believer Replybullet Posted: 06 April 2008 at 4:25pm

 I was answering this statement- "As Esa(a) said he was sent to the house of Israel. I wonder what  did gentiles got to with him that became such a religion"

Muslims expect referneces - that's ok then they say - no Paul just had a dream - so I post the fact that there was a witness to the situation outside the event- Ananias

John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 08 April 2008 at 1:39pm

believer writes:"I think the message really changes with the Quran depending on which translator you use. "

But Quran has the original text and language to check back, the Bible don't.

Hasan

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote believer Replybullet Posted: 13 April 2008 at 9:55am
Actually as the scribes copied the detering texts there was a special format they followed to make sure the copies were correct.  Check out this verse.  It shows that the copies were checked with the originals so they knew if the new were good copies of the old.
 
Jeremiah 8:

7 Even the stork in the sky knows her appointed seasons, and the dove, the swift and the thrush observe the time of their migration. But my people do not know the requirements of the LORD.

8 How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?

9 The wise will be put to shame; they will be dismayed and trapped. Since they have rejected the word of the LORD, what kind of wisdom do they have?

Have you been to the museum that holds the bones, leaves, etc. that the original verses were writen on? 



Edited by believer - 13 April 2008 at 9:55am
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Quote believer Replybullet Posted: 13 April 2008 at 2:46pm
LOL!!  I found a partial answer to my original questions on this thread -
 
 

 This is a fact described in the Quran that Jesus was Kalimah (a word or message or meaningful sentence) from God (given to Mary). It is also described in the Quran that Jesus was a spirit from God.

 

 So, in short, we Muslims believe that Jesus was:

 

 1. Kalimatullah (a word from Allah)

 2. Roohullah, (Spirit from Allah)

 3. Nabi Allah, (Prophet of Allah)

 4. Rasool Allah, (Messenger from Allah)

 5. Ayatullah, ( A sign from Allah) Ch. 19, verse 21

 6. Rehmatullah (Mercy from Allah) 19:21

 7. Abdullah (Servant of Allah) Ch. 19:30.

 8. Mubarak, (Blessed from Allah)

 9. In peace all the time,

 
Thanks minuteman
 
I have been saying for a long time but maybe not on this forum that Jesus was the Message!!   Am I stretching the word from Allah too far in Muslim eyes?
 
Do Muslims consider each of us a spirit from Allah?
 
A sign from Allah to what end?

 
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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