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Shasta'sAunt
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Quote Shasta'sAunt Replybullet Posted: 29 March 2008 at 5:51am
Originally posted by Doo-bop

Could some muslim please inform me what all the big fuss is about? 

Having now watched this film, I can say it consists of quotations from the Quran, preachings by muslims, examples of indoctrination of young children in jew-hatred, the intentions of muslims to set up muslim rule in the Netherlands, and the awful consequences of atrocities perpetrated by muslims. (and some other things I may have forgotten about)

So what's the big problem?

Why should Wilders not have recorded all this on film?

If muslims object to it, then why not take the matter up with the people portrayed in the film, and with those whose acts caused such loss of life, instead of threatening to kill Wilders.....

The "big deal" is that this film was created as a tool to incite and provocate Muslims, nothing more, nothing less.

It would be the same if a famous filmmaker in the states shot a film about "Christians" using only footage from Hitler rallies, KKK indoctrinations, stories about priests molesting small boys and the church covering it up, the recent rash of Evangelical leaders getting caught with thier pants down in public places with sodomites and quotations from the Bible taken way out of context to represent all of Christianity. 

Or showing footage of Israeli soldiers shooting Palestinian children or not allowing pregnant women to cross the border to the hospital so that they go into labor and lose their babies on the street, or the followers of Barukh Goldstein who celebrate at his grave every year and have made him a hero, as representing all of Judaism.

It's insulting and a slap in the face. However, talk of killing is wrong, but it is probably just talk. You know, much like Ann Coulter saying that we should kill all of the Muslim leaders and convert them to Christians, Pat Robertson saying kill the president of Venezuela, GW Bush saying we have to kill Saddam... wait that REALLY happened... I guess sometimes the more violent element of any religion can take over and do harm.

 

 



Edited by Shasta'sAunt
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
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seekshidayath
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Quote seekshidayath Replybullet Posted: 29 March 2008 at 10:29pm

There are in fact some muslims who are having wrong notions and bad beliefs not supported by the quran and sunnah.

Very true. Ponder over it.

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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ejdavid
 
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Quote ejdavid Replybullet Posted: 01 April 2008 at 7:18am
Shasta'sAunt

I am short of time, but will try to return for more research later. However

You wrote: "So. If Christians emulate Jesus they will forgive their enemies and not bring violence upon the anti-Christians. Instead, they go to their deaths in Coloseum type venues. (See "The Martyerdom of Polycarp)."

RESPONSE: Early Christians Emulated Jesus more then we do now. Early Muslims emulated Muhhanmed more then they do now.

EARLY WRITINGS ON THE BEHAVIOR
AND ATTITUDES OF MUHAMMED

"The earliest biography (sirat) of Muhammad's life is the work of Ibn Ishaq (85-151 A.H.) who was born in Medina. In this we learn of Muhammad's actions after he had conquered the towns of Khaybar. This event is also accepted and recorded by Ibn Kathir [1]."

THE REST OF THE AFFAIR OF KHAYBAR

"Kinana b. al-Rabi`, who had the custody of the treasure of B. al-Nadir, was brought to the apostle who asked him about it. He denied that he knew where it was. A Jew came (T. was brought) to the apostle and said that he had seen Kinana going round a certain ruin every morning early.

"When the apostle said to Kinana, "Do you know that if we find you have it I shall kill you?" he said Yes. The apostle gave orders that the ruin was to be excavated and some of the treasure was found. When he asked him about the rest he refused to produce it, so the apostle gave orders to al-Zubayr b. al-`Awwam, "Torture him until you extract what he has," so he kindled a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was nearly dead. Then the apostle delivered him to Muhammad b. Maslama and he struck off his head, in revenge for his brother Mahmud. (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, translated as, The Life of Muhammad, (tr. A. Guillaume), Karachi: Oxford University Press, 1998, p. 515.)"

This action of Muhammad teaches us a very important point about his character. He was the type of man who used torture to achieve his goals. In this case he wanted the treasure of the tribe of al-Nadir. The custodian of the treasure would not give it to him, therefore Muhammad gave the order to have him tortured. Muhammad's companions knew how to torture someone and proceeded to do so. This is the type of man Muhammad was. He could be merciful and forgiving if he wanted to be, but he could also have someone tortured for money to expand his empire. In this regard Muhammad is like ordinary kings and dictators throughout human history.
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minuteman
 
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Quote minuteman Replybullet Posted: 01 April 2008 at 11:55am

 

 This thing may have happened. But we are to start from the beginning. Why was Khaibar attacked. It was due to misbehaviour (cheating and aiding abetting the enemies) of the Jews. Why they did that? Such a bad move could be very dangerous for the muslims who were being attacked by the pagans every year.

 Muslims never attacked the Jews for many years and Jews were living in peace. But they were always plotting and inciting the pagan Arabs against the newly formed Muslim state of Madinah. These matters should be discussed and not the treasure. What use is treasure if there is no honesty?

If any one is bad some one must suffer
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ejdavid
 
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Quote ejdavid Replybullet Posted: 01 April 2008 at 1:56pm
Muhammed and Islam made war upon much of the known world at the time. In this capacity he was not always benificent to those who crossed him. Even if they nothing more then imputent femail poets with suckling children. Some Muslims to this very day prescribe execution for those who are not properly respectful.


http://www.answering-islam.de/Main/Authors/Arlandson/dead_po ets.htm

Edited by ejdavid
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minuteman
 
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Quote minuteman Replybullet Posted: 02 April 2008 at 7:04am

 

 The subject is Fitnah, i.e. Greet wilders fitnah. We would like to know who is Greet Wilders? What is he? is he a christian? is he a Jew? Is he an atheist? That is the need of the moment. Let him live a happy life but please introduce him if any one knows about him. Thanks.

If any one is bad some one must suffer
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Shasta'sAunt
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Quote Shasta'sAunt Replybullet Posted: 02 April 2008 at 6:29pm

ejDavid:

No, actually you wrote this:

?\"Shasta'sAunt

I am short of time, but will try to return for more research later. However

You wrote: "So. If Christians emulate Jesus they will forgive their enemies and not bring violence upon the anti-Christians. Instead, they go to their deaths in Coloseum type venues. (See "The Martyerdom of Polycarp)."

I see that you have copied my of your post almost verbatim from AnsweringIslam, a well known anti-Islamic website that spreads falsehoods and manufactures stories. Unless you can come up with a true source for your "facts" they are not worth a response. perhaps a book that YOU yourself have read, something with sources that can be validated?

“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt
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peacemaker
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Quote peacemaker Replybullet Posted: 03 April 2008 at 10:46am

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