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Message Icon Topic: Geert Wilders - Fitna Post Reply Post New Topic
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Doo-bop
 
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Quote Doo-bop Replybullet Posted: 19 April 2008 at 10:35am
Israfil - did you miss the question I put to you on page 11 of this thread? ---The sources for the material on "Fitna" certainly weren't wikipedia....

Edited by Doo-bop - 19 April 2008 at 10:46am
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Shasta'sAunt
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Quote Shasta'sAunt Replybullet Posted: 19 April 2008 at 3:49pm
"I don't get this.  I am describing Islam as a totalitarian threat to the world"
 
The only group, organization, or country actively trying to spread it's own form of government and belief system around the world is the USA.  That is supposedly the reason we are at war in Iraq, after all the other reasons proved falsehoods. Why we have military installations around the world, including Saudi Arabia, which is why bin Ladin instigated 9-11. And why we keep trying to demand that other countries have free democratic elections, even when our elections are no longer free or democratic.
 
However, we don't practice what we preach because when Palestine actually did have a free democratic election, and voted in Hamas, the U.S. stopped aid to the country in a form of collective punishment.  This is why our government continues to prop up corrupt governments around the world headed by dictators and strongmen. They don't REALLY want free elections, they want to handpick who is elected.
 
But, it is much easier to elaborate on the "Islamic" threat than try to stop our government from trying to control the rest of the world. Makes it easier for our government to carry on, in fact.   Frighten the lemmings with crazed Jihadists and Uncle Sam can do whatever he wants.   
 
 


Edited by Shasta'sAunt - 19 April 2008 at 3:53pm
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
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Shasta'sAunt
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Quote Shasta'sAunt Replybullet Posted: 19 April 2008 at 3:51pm
 "You just can't trust those Jews, can you?"
 
I trust many Jews. However, Israelis are a different story.  
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Shasta'sAunt
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Quote Shasta'sAunt Replybullet Posted: 19 April 2008 at 4:10pm
Originally posted by Doo-bop

Israfil - did you miss the question I put to you on page 11 of this thread? ---The sources for the material on "Fitna" certainly weren't wikipedia....
 
 
Doo Bop:
 
I could create a film using hand picked passages from the Bible, Evangelical leaders calling for the assassination of presidents, and preaching hatred of Islam from the pulpits, priests molesting choir boys, and heads of churches picking up gay men and drugs in unsavory places. I could show footage of bloody carnage of Christian fought wars, WW II and Vietnam perhaps, crosses burning on front lawns and skin heads. Flash images of raped and battered women in U.S. hospitals, drunk driving deaths, gun shootings, and 12 year old girls working in strip clubs. Put these all together and say that this is Christianity at it's zenith.
 
It would all be technically correct, but it would not be the truth.  Unless I wanted it to be my truth.  Apparently you want to believe that Islam is evil and nothing is going to change your mind. That is your perogative. Hate on my friend.  I just can't understand why you are on an Islamic message board, since you demonstratively hold Muslims in such disdain.  It's clearly not to learn.... hmmmmmmm


Edited by Shasta'sAunt - 19 April 2008 at 4:11pm
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Servetus
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Quote Servetus Replybullet Posted: 19 April 2008 at 5:20pm

Thank you, Sign-Reader.  

 

Doo-bop, as for us, a perhaps final review (from my side) is in order.

 

You wrote: “The influx of Muslims into the Netherlands has nothing to do with the imperialist past of the country, as you [Servetus] seem to imply …”

I wrote: “I don’t know the percentage of Muslims in the following equation, but please read this and extrapolate …’in the aftermath of [Dutch East Indies] independence, hundreds of thousands of people of both Dutch and mixed Dutch and native-Indonesian descent moved to the Netherlands, establishing the largest migrant subpopulation in Dutch demographic history.’”

You wrote:  “hmmm....key word missing here. Clue - it starts with "m" and ends with "m".” 

 

Thank you.  I was obviously never clueless.  The mysterious “m” word is only missing because you didn’t quote my statement in full.  I clearly said that I didn’t know the percentage of Muslims in the equation and, for that matter, until I do, I will not accept your claim, prima facie, that the colonial history of the Netherlands has nothing, or little, to do with the influx of Muslims into the Netherlands, considering the number of Muslims who both live and lived in Indonesia.

 

You wrote:  As for marching off to foreign parts, I hardly think that the likes of Geert Wilders has that on his mind, more a question of protecting his own shores.” 

 

I wrote:  "I would not be surprised if, in his zeal to protect his own shores, Mr. Wilders would prefer to keep his country’s imperial and colonial past out of both sight and mind.  It is a common enough phenomenon." 

You wrote:  “Oh please.  Why would he prefer to do that?  Do you think this man is st**id?  Is that your problem?”

Sorry.  You are the one who speculated on what transpires in Geert Wilders’ mind.  I agreed with you, in a way.  Is that your problem?   I doubt that the man is st**id, but, from this distance, which includes a serious linguistic divide, a factor I already acknowledged, I do think him at best logically inconsistent.  Does he want free speech in the Netherlands or not?  

 

You wrote:   We are facing the biggest totalitarian threat the world has ever seen and the “west” seems to be clueless as to how to deal with it.”

 

I wrote:  On the contrary, the fiercely secular and increasingly coagulant “West” is handling things admirably.  Take the Netherlands, for instance.  Until 1894 …”

 

You wrote:  I don't get this.  I am describing Islam as a totalitarian threat to the world, you reply by talking about immigrants …

 

Allow me to explain.  Yours is a compound sentence.  You were talking about two things: (1) "the biggest totalitarian threat the world has ever seen;" and (2) the “west’s” response to it.  I skipped over your first point to address your second, disagreed with you on it, and provided a few reasons for my disagreement.  You need not accept them.

 

I wrote:  That said, in much the same way that I do not go to Ian Paisley for my understanding of the Catholic catechism or to David Duke’s yeshiva for studies in the Talmud, neither do I go to “A 7 Syndications” for disinterested reportage on Palestine.  But I obviously don’t altogether dismiss the quote, either."

 

You wrote:  “You just can't trust those Jews, can you?”

 

I take most things cum grano salis.  That so-called news syndication is a bit suspect to me, yes.  It seems to have a dog in the fight.  I prefer, and it's only a preference, not an absolute requirement, to take my reports from those who don’t.  Call it my style, or lack of it, and it is as simple as that. 

 

Serv



Edited by Servetus - 19 April 2008 at 8:28pm
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Doo-bop
 
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Quote Doo-bop Replybullet Posted: 21 April 2008 at 9:17am
Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt

Originally posted by Doo-bop

Israfil - did you miss the question I put to you on page 11 of this thread? ---The sources for the material on "Fitna" certainly weren't wikipedia....
 
 
Doo Bop:
 
I could create a film using hand picked passages from the Bible, Evangelical leaders calling for the assassination of presidents, and preaching hatred of Islam from the pulpits, priests molesting choir boys, and heads of churches picking up gay men and drugs in unsavory places. I could show footage of bloody carnage of Christian fought wars, WW II and Vietnam perhaps, crosses burning on front lawns and skin heads. Flash images of raped and battered women in U.S. hospitals, drunk driving deaths, gun shootings, and 12 year old girls working in strip clubs. Put these all together and say that this is Christianity at it's zenith.
 
It would all be technically correct, but it would not be the truth.  Unless I wanted it to be my truth.  Apparently you want to believe that Islam is evil and nothing is going to change your mind. That is your perogative. Hate on my friend.  I just can't understand why you are on an Islamic message board, since you demonstratively hold Muslims in such disdain.  It's clearly not to learn.... hmmmmmmm
 
I'd be very interested to know, Auntie, just what "hand-picked verses" you're going to pick to justify all the details of your proposed film.  Preaching hatred of Islam is justifiable, even although Islam is not mentioned in the Bible, as there was no Islam in Biblical times.  We can say that it is justifiable because its teachings are contrary to the Bible.  But as for the rest....please bear in mind that you are saying that your film is to portray Christianity, so any commands of God to the nation of Israel to go to war and kill people under the terms of the Mosaic covenant, under which they were to live, do not apply.....
 
But why talk about the film you could make?  A film has been made, which is the subject of this thread.   Why don't you address the issues in it?
 
Yes, Auntie, with God's help and enabling, I shall continue to hate what he finds hateful (which does not include muslims, whom he loves).  God forbid that I should fall into the sin of loving what he hates.
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Doo-bop
 
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Quote Doo-bop Replybullet Posted: 21 April 2008 at 10:35am
Shasta's aunt wrote:-
 
"The only group, organization, or country actively trying to spread it's own form of government and belief system around the world is the USA."
 
Oh please. Muslim organisations are trying to do this the world over.  Look at your own CAIR, for instance, here:-
 
 
Ibrahim Hooper states that he is working, through education, to establish Islamic government in the USA.  And he is not alone....
 
"......which is why bin Ladin instigated 9-11."
 
Are you saying here that Bin Laden is not trying to establish Islamic rule world-wide?  
 
"However, we don't practice what we preach because when Palestine actually did have a free democratic election, and voted in Hamas, the U.S. stopped aid to the country in a form of collective punishment.  This is why our government continues to prop up corrupt governments around the world headed by dictators and strongmen. They don't REALLY want free elections, they want to handpick who is elected."
 
There is another explanation, namely, that your government is not trying to "spread its own form of government and belief system around the world", merely trying to safeguard its own interests (and I'm not saying they're right).  If Islam is not promoting free elections everywhere, how can you criticise your own government for not doing so (unless you place your own US govt. on a higher plane of moral responsibility than Islam).  Please give a quotation from any core text of Islam which promotes free elections. Incidentally the "palestinians" are still getting plenty of aid from the west, much to my personal disgust - why should my money be going to support those who are sworn to destroy the state of Israel?
 
"But, it is much easier to elaborate on the "Islamic" threat than try to stop our government from trying to control the rest of the world. Makes it easier for our government to carry on, in fact.   Frighten the lemmings with crazed Jihadists and Uncle Sam can do whatever he wants."
 
But you see, I'm not talking about crazed jihadists.  I'm talking about Islam.  Whatever your government is up to does not affect that   


Edited by Doo-bop - 21 April 2008 at 11:34am
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Quote Shasta'sAunt Replybullet Posted: 21 April 2008 at 12:03pm
Well Doo Bop:
 
I am happy that somebody finally figured Muslims out. After hundreds of years of careful plotting and planning, while the West and Christianity violently spread throughout the world(that was part of our plan), we have been making our move to take over. Look at how many WMDs, military machines, and corporations we control. In fact, Muslims even cleverly gave the West control of the oil reserves in Muslim majority countries to lull you into a false sense of security.... We wanted you to set up military bases and install puppet regimes. All part of the plan.  But we don't want you to feel too secure, that would be no fun, so every once in a while we send out a rogue bomber or terror attack. This way you can invade Muslim majority countries and get bogged down in endless wars that you can never win. Clever, clever, clever....  In fact, Osama bin Ladin doesn't even really exist, he's a CGI invented to keep you busy hunting while we plot and plan. Unfortunately THAT backfired. Guess Bush was smarter than he looks. Never even bothered looking.  Oh well, the rest of the plan is still working. After the destruction of Iraq we intend for you to invade Iran. Clever, eh?
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
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