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Doo-bop
 
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Quote Doo-bop Replybullet Topic: Geert Wilders - Fitna
    Posted: 28 March 2008 at 11:15am

Could some muslim please inform me what all the big fuss is about? 

Having now watched this film, I can say it consists of quotations from the Quran, preachings by muslims, examples of indoctrination of young children in jew-hatred, the intentions of muslims to set up muslim rule in the Netherlands, and the awful consequences of atrocities perpetrated by muslims. (and some other things I may have forgotten about)

So what's the big problem?

Why should Wilders not have recorded all this on film?

If muslims object to it, then why not take the matter up with the people portrayed in the film, and with those whose acts caused such loss of life, instead of threatening to kill Wilders.....

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Quote minuteman Replybullet Posted: 28 March 2008 at 12:17pm

 

 Thanks doo-bop for asking. The problem is with the Muslims. They translate the word Kaafir as a mere disbeliever. While it means the enemy of Islam. The verse that had been used to downplay the Quran and to prove that it was a terrorist religion allowing / ordering the muslims to kill the non-believers could not be meant like that.

 47:4 would be translated " When yo meet the  Kuffar (enemies of Islam ) face to face in battle, kill them. Smite their necks.... etc.

 That is all about the enemies of Islam who were out to attack the religion of Islam in various ways.

 Tell me, is it not allowed to fight the enemy? This is not any un-natural religion. Islam is fully natural. We may or may not love our enemy. It is upto us. If they fight then we have the permission to fight them. Why that has been made the basis of a bad film in Holland? Is that not foolishness or cleverness?

 If the Muslims, in future, in the Quran, translate the word Kaafir or Kufr as an enemy of Islam then there will be nothing wrong and no misunderstanding could be caused. And no such bad action could be taken against Islam such as making a film and spreading rumors about Islam.

 It is the fault of the Muslim friends which has caused this problem. The sooner they reflect the correct meaning of the word Kaafir in the books, the better it will be.

 Of course not all disbelievers are kaafir. Kaafir are only those who take up arms against Islam or they spread rumors or bad news. They do not accept Islam and do not allow any one to accept Islam and live in peace. Only those are kaafirs. The others who do not try to fight the religion of Islam and they do not oppose it and they do not oppose the peaceful preaching of the religion (any religion), they are not kaafir. And they should not be killed at all. No question. No problem at all.

 That fellow Wilders has done the wrong translation of the verses of the Quran and he has stirred up the peaceful atmosphere in the world against Islam. That was all a lie and a falsehood.



Edited by minuteman
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minuteman
 
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Quote minuteman Replybullet Posted: 28 March 2008 at 12:31pm

 

 There is no need to kill Wilders. There are in fact some muslims who are having wrong notions and bad beliefs not supported by the quran and sunnah. They have to correct those feelings of hatred, undue hatred etc. That is causing bad name for their religion.

 If some of the things are true in that film then the muslims had it. They are to answer. Are they in favor of Jihad and killing. Or they are in favor of peaceful co-existence?. Are the Muslims ready to reciprocate the good things of the western countries or they want good for themselves and deny the same right to the peaceful non-muslims?

 There are definitely some serious mistakes on the part of the muslims to earn a bad name in he world. They cannot blame others for it. I may later present a list of some bad policies of the muslims if permitted.



Edited by minuteman
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ejdavid
 
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Quote ejdavid Replybullet Posted: 28 March 2008 at 4:13pm
Doo-bop - You wrote: "Could some muslim please inform me what all the big fuss is about?"

Not a Muslim, but the big fuss is whether Muhammed was the perfect man, to be emulated by all the faithful. Specifically, Muhammed did a lot of hands-on-killing, and had his followers murder dissidents. These facts are not much in dispute except by those who have not studied Islam.

So. If Christians emulate Jesus they will forgive their enemies and not bring violence upon the anti-Christians. Instead, they go to their deaths in Coloseum type venues. (See "The Martyerdom of Polycarp). So. How do Muslims Emulate Muhammed without resorting to violence? Its the very heart of the issue.
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Quote ejdavid Replybullet Posted: 28 March 2008 at 4:24pm
Doo-bop

I am pleasantly surprised Muslims have not rioted accross the globe and killed available suspects by the hundreds. Perhaps we DO have some progress. HOWEVER, it is entirely clear that many authoritative Muslims from primitive societies are ranting for revenge and death, and Jihad against 'Appostate' Muslims as well as the entire global population of Infidels.

These primitive Muslims have plenty of believers, money to spend, and Jihad on their minds. If they are only one percent of 2 billion Muslims? You do the math.
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Shasta'sAunt
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Quote Shasta'sAunt Replybullet Posted: 29 March 2008 at 1:44am

"So. If Christians emulate Jesus they will forgive their enemies and not bring violence upon the anti-Christians. Instead, they go to their deaths in Coloseum type venues. (See "The Martyerdom of Polycarp)."

Yes, we see many Christians emulating Jesus in this fashion. There are 150,000 of them in Iraq at the moment, sent at the behest of a Evangelivcal Christian leader of a predominantly Christian-Judeo country. In fact, it was one of G.W's good Christian buddies: Pat Robertson, who ranted and raved and called for the assassignation of a head of state.

Who are they emulating? Who are they emulating when they allowed hundreds of poor to die in New Orleans? Who are they emulating when they lie, and cheat, and pick up men in public restrooms, these good Christians of yours?

How many school shootings have there been in the U.S. in the last 12 months? How many of the shooters were Muslims? In fact, how many of the 25,000 or so people killed by guns in the U.S. in the last year were shot by Muslims?

Perhaps you should be more concerned with what is happening to your religion instead of fabricating stories about ours.

 

 

“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
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minuteman
 
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Quote minuteman Replybullet Posted: 29 March 2008 at 2:23am

Originally posted by ejdavid

Doo-bop - You wrote: "Could some muslim please inform me what all the big fuss is about?"

Not a Muslim, but the big fuss is whether Muhammed was the perfect man, to be emulated by all the faithful. Specifically, Muhammed did a lot of hands-on-killing, and had his followers murder dissidents. These facts are not much in dispute except by those who have not studied Islam.

So. If Christians emulate Jesus they will forgive their enemies and not bring violence upon the anti-Christians. Instead, they go to their deaths in Coloseum type venues. (See "The Martyerdom of Polycarp). So. How do Muslims Emulate Muhammed without resorting to violence? Its the very heart of the issue.

 What you wrote is not correct. Please give the name of one man only whom Muhammad killed. o.k? You will not find it.

 The good point about christians was when they were being persecuted and they were hiding. What happened when they became free and powerful? The Christian warmonger Crusaders killed many of their own faith people in jeroshlem not knowing that they were christians.

 Then please inform us all about your bloody Mary queen of England. She was in love with some of her christian friends whom she got killed in great numbers. Will you deny?

 There is no need to talk about jesus. He could not do anything in a three year short time. He just came and tried but his people hung him on the cross. That was the end of Jesus. No more of him any where. Only a few of his speeches (biography) are wandering in the books of bible.



Edited by minuteman
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minuteman
 
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Quote minuteman Replybullet Posted: 29 March 2008 at 2:34am

Originally posted by ejdavid

Doo-bop

I am pleasantly surprised Muslims have not rioted accross the globe and killed available suspects by the hundreds. Perhaps we DO have some progress. HOWEVER, it is entirely clear that many authoritative Muslims from primitive societies are ranting for revenge and death, and Jihad against 'Appostate' Muslims as well as the entire global population of Infidels.

These primitive Muslims have plenty of believers, money to spend, and Jihad on their minds. If they are only one percent of 2 billion Muslims? You do the math.

 I agree to what you have written. But please do not blame it on the religion of Islam. Blame it on the Muslims and their leaders who are giving sermons for Jihad from their pulpits. But do not blame it on Islam. Thanks.

 There is no need to mix up politics with religion. The religious mattrs will be dealt on religious level with you.

 

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